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Old 07-13-2003, 03:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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You're, your, their, they're, there

Am I the only one that is sick and tired of seeing these words used improperly?

Let us review each one:

You're - Contraction between the words "you" and "are".

Example: You're going to help me do the chores tomorrow.
May also say: You are going to help me do the chores tomorrow.

Your - Denotes possession.

Example: This is your son, you take care of him.

They are not interexchangeable. You cannot say "Your going to help me do the chores tomorrow."

If you do say this, then you are saying that there is such a thing as a "going to help me do the chores tomorrow", and that it belongs to someone. The act of helping to accomplish chores belongs to someone? It is possible to mean this, but it is extremely rare to find such an instance of this use.

You also cannot say:

"This is you're son, you take care of him."

By this you are saying, "This is you are son, you take care of him." This simply does not make any grammatical sense, so don't do it, please.

Let us also discuss the pronunciation.

You're is pronounced as follows: "y-uh-r"
I get the feeling that this doesn't make sense because I'm not being clear enough. "uh" is the sound that "u" makes, such as in "under". The pronunciation of "your" is pretty clear-cut, as most people know how to pronounce it-- at least in my experience they do.

Their - denotes possession, third-person plural form.

Example: It's their show, you let them handle it.

They're - contraction between "they" and "are".

Example: They're going with us tomorrow.
Can also say: They are going with us tomorrow.

There - denotes location.

Example: There it is!

Now let's run down the list.

You cannot say:

"It's they're show, you let them handle it."

By saying this you are saying, "It's they are show, you let them handle it."

Honestly, does that make sense? I didn't think so.

You cannot say:

"It's there show, you let them handle it."

This might barely make grammatical sense. You are saying something along the lines of, "The show is right there, you let them handle it." And that's while being very generous and forgiving. Realistically, this does not make grammatical sense.

You cannot say:

"Their going with us tomorrow."

By saying this, you are saying that "going with us tomorrow" is tangible, and belongs to someone. Tangible means "something you can touch." Is there such a thing as "going with us tomorrow"? Maybe there's a type of perfume or something with this name, and in such a case you would be able to touch a "going with us tomorrow", but as before, such a case is quite rare.

You also cannot say:

"There going with us tomorrow."

Again, being very generous and forgiving, this might be taken to mean "That location over there is going with us tomorrow." Unless said location is referring to something small, such as a dog house, it is unlikely that a location will by accompanying anyone anywhere. That is unless of course, if you have access to a huge ship that is capable of carrying large houses or something along those lines... which is also very rare.

You cannot say:

"They're it is!"

First off, "they're" is plural-- meaning "more than one"-- and "it" is singular, meaning "only one". Does "They are it is!" make any sense to you? I sincerely hope not.

You also cannot say:

"Their it is!"

By this you are saying that there is such a thing as a "it is!", and is also tangible. I don't need to repeat everything I said before, do I?

Unfortunately, "their", "there" and "they're" are pronounced exactly the same.

I really don't feel any sympathy for ignorant people, whatever your case may be or your reason for being ignorant.

Just remember: "Ignorance is no excuse."
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Old 07-13-2003, 05:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You, my friend, forgot its/it's.

It's means "it is." End of story. In fact, while I'm at it, an apostrophe never indicates plurality. Ever. It can be present along with plurality, but will never signify said condition.

Otherwise, excellent work. I can't stand people not knowing how to use their native language. You only use one! Get it right.
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Old 07-13-2003, 10:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Its means "belonging to it" as in "the CD had lost its cover."

Good thread. Some of the butcherings of grammar that you see on the web are maddening.
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Old 07-13-2003, 11:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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how about can not vs cannot as for the initial grammer fuddlment, I would like it known I know the difference nad can use them accurately, I"m just too poor to afford apostrophes. see? had to use a quotation mark there! :P so, if I miss one, that is why.
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Old 07-13-2003, 11:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Feel better now that you've gotten that out of your system?

Now I dare you to tackle "lay" and "lie".
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Old 07-14-2003, 02:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Old 07-14-2003, 05:29 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell
Feel better now that you've gotten that out of your system?

Now I dare you to tackle "lay" and "lie".
This shit is never out of my system, foo'!

Lay (“to put, place, or prepare”) and lie (“to recline or be situated”) have been confused for centuries; evidence exists that lay has been used to mean “lie” since the 1300s. Why? First, there are two lays. One is the base form of the verb lay, and the other is the past tense of lie. Second, lay was once used with a reflexive pronoun to mean “lie” and survives in the familiar line from the child's prayer Now I lay me down to sleep; lay me down is easily shortened to lay down. Third, lay down, as in She lay down on the sofa sounds the same as laid down, as in I laid down the law to the kids. ·Lay and lie are most easily distinguished by usage. Lay is a transitive verb and takes a direct object. Lay and its principal parts (laid, laying) are correctly used in the following examples: He laid (not lay) the newspaper on the table. The table was laid for four. Lie is an intransitive verb and cannot take an object. Lie and its principal parts (lay, lain, lying) are correctly used in the following examples: She often lies (not lays) down after lunch. When I lay (not laid) down, I fell asleep. The rubbish had lain (not laid) there a week. I was lying (not laying) in bed when he called. ·There are a few exceptions to these rules. The phrasal verb lay for and the nautical use of lay, as in lay at anchor, though intransitive, are standard.

My gf is an English wonk; to give you an idea of how badly, she wants a dictionary stand for when I get her the single-volume unabridged OED. Fucker costs around 300 dollars, but that's nothing on the twenty-volume set, which is 3 Gs.
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Old 07-14-2003, 12:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Good post. This is one of my pet peeves.

What about except/accept, insure/ensure?
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Old 07-14-2003, 01:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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yay "commonly confused words"
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Old 07-14-2003, 01:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Except - to make a distinction, to set apart, basically.

Example: Everyone except you can go outside.

Accept - to consent to, agree to, and receive, if applicable.

Example: I will accept that gift from you.

You cannot say:

"Everyone accept you can go outside."

This would mean something along the lines of, "Everyone, accept this person that I will suddenly refer to as 'you', and can go outside." This doesn't really make any good sense in the real world.

You also cannot say:

"I will except that gift from you."

This does not make any sense and would actually turn the sentence into a fragment. By this I mean that the sentence would become an incomplete thought. Allow me to demonstrate:

"I will, except that gift from you." <-- Makes no sense and is incomplete. The sentence may be completed as follows:

"I will, except that gift from you needs to be returned because it was defective." <-- A complete thought, although with poor sentence structure, but still a complete thought.

Now let's discuss pronunciation:

Accept is pronounced as "ak-sept". The "a" makes the same sound as in "pat", but not as in "pay", "care", or "father".

Except is pronounced as "ek-sept". The "e" makes the same sound as in "egg", but not as in "be".

Insure - means to provide insurance. If this definition doesn't satisfy you, "insurance" is defined as follows: "Coverage by a contract binding a party to indemnify another against specified loss in return for premiums paid." - (Dictionary.com) If this still isn't enough for you, "indemnify" is defined as: "1.) To protect against damage, loss, or injury; insure. 2.) To make compensation to for damage, loss, or injury suffered." This should suffice for you.

Example: Please be certain that you insure your vehicle after you purchase it.

Ensure - to ascertain. Basically means, "to confirm" or "to reconfirm". In a nutshell, it means, "to make sure of."

Example: Ensure that your safety belt is securely fastened before the ride begins.

As always, these two are not interexchangeable.

You cannot say:

"Please be certain that you ensure your vehicle after you purchase it."

This can easily be fixed by saying, "Please ensure that you insure your vehicle after you purchase it." Otherwise, it does not make sense.

You also cannot say:

"Insure that your safety belt is securely fastened before the ride begins."

Although it is a bit more difficult to explain this one, essentially, the word "insure" is completely out of context. Maybe someone can pickup from here. Feeling kind of tired. *yawns*
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Old 07-14-2003, 09:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yeah and Effect and Affect too!
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Old 07-14-2003, 09:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
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How about affect and effect? Affect is always a verb -- "His marriage proposal didn't affect her stance on his infidelity." Effect is almost always a noun -- "Seeing that the ring had no effect, he quickly made his apologies and got out of there." You can also use effect as a verb -- "'I was only trying to effect a change in our relationship,' he thought sadly to himself as he slunk out of her house." Generally, though, the verb/noun rule will see you through.
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Old 07-14-2003, 10:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Another one: Hopefully is an adverb. "He watched the mailman hopefully."

"Hopefully, it won't rain tomorrow" IS NOT CORRECT
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Old 07-15-2003, 12:45 AM   #14 (permalink)
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with the there, their, they're and you're, your etc they don't bother me too much because i can decipher them in me head as i am reading.
this is a message board so i don't take too much care or be too pedantic in writing, unless i feel my post is important, like this one isn't too important lol.

all in all, if the post isn't too important and as long as the "jist" is there, then i find it ok.
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Old 07-15-2003, 12:56 AM   #15 (permalink)
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i was behind a lady with a bumpersticker reading: "Women make great leaders. Your following one."

You'd think somebody would proofread that before printing up stickers. What I was following was a dumb bitch.

I screw up lay and lie though.
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Old 07-15-2003, 05:25 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I wish more people would take grammar seriously. I was a copy editor for a few years in college, and was amazed by some of the submissions I received. Not everyone is an English major; if you can't break down and diagram a sentence, that's fine. Not knowing basic differences between completely different words like "their" and "they're" and "there" is a major symptom of either the poor quality of education received or just plain not caring about proper usage.

-Mikey
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Old 07-15-2003, 06:58 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sleepyjack
with the there, their, they're and you're, your etc they don't bother me too much because i can decipher them in me head as i am reading.
this is a message board so i don't take too much care or be too pedantic in writing, unless i feel my post is important, like this one isn't too important lol.

all in all, if the post isn't too important and as long as the "jist" is there, then i find it ok.
The word you wanted was "gist," ironically enough.
The question pertains to laxative's post. Poor use of your native language may not make you indecipherable, but it may make you look foolish, and I do that enough without misusing words. I would also like to draw a distinction between being pedantic(what I am doing now) and ensuring you use the proper words to convey your point, which could be considered conscientious, but never didactic, unless you really believe posts can simply lead by example.
In all seriousness, it's easy to check for that sort of thing before you submit to the will of the masses. Don't allow yourself to be dumbed down.
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Old 07-15-2003, 11:59 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I'm not sure which is worse...reading poor grammer or listening to it.

What I can't stand is when people can't PRONOUNCE the words correctly. It's weird, they either get lazy and round off words, or add sounds.

Wash vs WaRsh
Wal-Mart vs Wal-MartS
SundDAY vs Sundie
Missouri vs MissourUH (my state...sheesh)

In Florida it is Miami but in Oklahoma it is Miamuh...or simply Mimuh (long i)

I have yet to figure out what "awallago" means.
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Old 07-15-2003, 06:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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All pet peeves of mine.

"I would like it known I know the difference nad can use them accurately" is a really weak excuse. Prove it with your words, lazy-butt.

I don't expect people to be English majors either and even my speech patterns noticeably change depending on my company, but constant misuse makes you look like you just don't know any better. When the written word is exactly how we communicate, it always amazes me that people aren't more conscious of trying to communicate better.

In addition to those already listed; others on my list: "aks," "asterick," "anyways"

Wow, all the "a" words - go figure.
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Old 07-15-2003, 06:07 PM   #20 (permalink)
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"to" "two" and "too" are always confused it seems.

I saw this sentence in a document I was reading at work today:

Too make shure we dont have two many people taking more than one or to pens at a time, we are assigning. . . . "

They somehow managed to screw up all 3 of them in one sentence, and they even confused a derivative of the word "ensure" with a brand of microphones!

Sheesh.
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Old 07-15-2003, 09:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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"Wash vs WaRsh
Wal-Mart vs Wal-MartS
SundDAY vs Sundie
Missouri vs MissourUH (my state...sheesh)"

I do not believe that these pronounciations are incorrect. In what way are they incorrect? It seems you deem them incorrect because you don't prefer to pronounce them that way. Is it incorrect to say "I'm gonna go to the store," as opposed to "I'm going to go to the store?"
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Old 07-16-2003, 07:26 AM   #22 (permalink)
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happyraul:
I think the pronounciations are incorrect since "wash" has no R in it for instance. Wal-Mart does not end in an S. In the cases I hear Wal-Mart pronounced this way they are not using the word in a plurality or possessive nature.

I don't hear people say "what dee is todee?" actually I'm wrong about that one.. that is more of an accent thing...i'll retract that one about SunDAY vs Sundie

but "across" certainly has no T or ED at the end, I hear "we drove acrossed town" all the time
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Old 07-16-2003, 07:55 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I think I understand. You think that it when someone says "warsh" it is wrong because there is no R, yet they make an R sound. However, I do not believe that those that pronounce "wash" that way or pronounce "Missouri" "MissourUH" have any misconceptions as to their spelling. I believe that their way of saying such words is accent related. There are other examples on our language where you could claim words are being mispronounced. We simply don't notice them because we are used to hearing them, but perhaps in the past they were not pronounced the same way. For example, why are the letters "gh" pronounced "f" as in laugh or cough? I don't claim that these were pronounced differently in the past, but it seems plausible that they were, and somehow evolved to the current pronounciation. Similarly, "wash" could evolve to be pronounced "warsh" by a majority of people at some point, and I don't see what is wrong with that. I'm just throwing things out there, don't take me too seriously ;-)


edit: I wish I could write coherent sentences :-p

Last edited by happyraul; 07-16-2003 at 08:28 PM..
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Old 07-16-2003, 09:40 PM   #24 (permalink)
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warsh is an accent. so is tomato tomahto.. it's all the same.

what *i* can't stand is people who CONSCIOUSLY misspell things 'creatively'. u kno wut i meen ;P
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Old 07-17-2003, 10:51 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Grammar... it does a body good.

I would like to point out that common usage does, in many cases, overrule rules of grammar (unfortunately I can't think of an example of this right now...)
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Old 07-17-2003, 11:12 AM   #26 (permalink)
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You make a good point. This is a "living" language and is definately evolving.

i just wish we could narrow things down a bit. I'm just about the worse speller (m-w.com is my friend) so I'm always looking up proper spellings.

u no wut i meen?

there is also a distinction between spoken rules and written rules, but that is quite a diversion from the original topic of this thread.
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Old 07-18-2003, 07:55 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I am so glad to see I am not the only one that is bothered by this! I used to drive my best friend in junior high crazy because she'd pass me a note and I would return it with corrections!
*I missed my calling as an editor I suppose!
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Old 07-23-2003, 03:39 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Funniest misspellings I've seen in recent days...
-'speriotype' instead of 'stereotype'
-'riddens'...you know, as in "good riddens" (we gave the guy hell about how our relatives had caught a case of "bad riddens" one time)
-'eitherwise' instead of 'otherwise' (I actually kind of like it though)

Glad to know I'm not the only one that's big on stuff like this. If anyone wants a book recommendation, pick up "Mother Tongue: English & How It Got That Way". Oh, and I really like using 'hopefully' "improperly". I think it's commonly used enough in that sense to make a case.

In a related grammar area, has anyone ever seen the word 'be' turned into a pun? There's a sign on highways around here that says, "'Bee' alert. Arrive unhurt." It has a picture of a bee (like the Honey Nut Cheerios one) holding a caution sign. Man...it ticks me off for some reason.

Finally, one of my biggest grammar pet peeves is the substitution of numerals for words. '4' and '2' are not words, dammit!
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Old 07-23-2003, 01:46 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I have a dog, named "you are dog", so my wife says... You're Dog is yours, you take care of him.
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Old 07-23-2003, 01:49 PM   #30 (permalink)
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they do annoy me when i see these kinda mistakes.

i can proudly say that i hardly make these mistakes but you wouldnt believe how many people (older people) make these mistakes.

i took english class @ my local community college and we had to have a seperate lesson over this.
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Old 07-23-2003, 08:14 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by The_Dude
they do annoy me when i see these kinda mistakes.

i can proudly say that i hardly make these mistakes but you wouldnt believe how many people (older people) make these mistakes.

i took english class @ my local community college and we had to have a seperate lesson over this.
Did the class include the spelling of separate? Just kidding, Dude.
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Old 07-23-2003, 09:54 PM   #32 (permalink)
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You guys forgot 'a lot' it's two words people
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Old 07-24-2003, 12:36 AM   #33 (permalink)
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EG, I remember thinking that 'alot' sounded like a decent enough word back in junior high. I mean, 'another' is a word, right? I used it quite a bit until an English teacher hammered it out of me.
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Old 07-24-2003, 06:03 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Old 07-24-2003, 06:12 AM   #35 (permalink)
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You english majors are just too anal..... j/k

Thanks for the lesson! I'll try to be better in the future.
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Old 07-24-2003, 02:19 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I'm sick of idiots messing those up.
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Old 07-28-2003, 07:52 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Can I just say that I really prefer to add apostrophes to acronyms despite it being "wrong"? For some reason, it looks better when you type VCR's, CD's, or mp3's. Perhaps I just cringe at the idea of something lower case directly next to several upper case letters.

Oh, and I also prefer to put punctuation marks after quotation marks except in rare cases.
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Old 07-28-2003, 08:02 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Cringe away, Jekyll. Correct grammar is not a matter of personal preference. Those apostrophes should not be there in the plural forms. It may be accepted by people you know, but in any formal communication it will make you look unproffessional.

The same goes for punctuating quotations.

Can anyone explain (for my benefit) the correct usage of 'single quotes' and "double quotes"?
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Old 07-28-2003, 09:02 PM   #39 (permalink)
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the worst trend I've noticed amoungst the youngsters these days is the "our"/"are" phenomenon. Kids will say "Were going to are pool" when it should be "We're going to our pool." Its crazy!
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Old 07-29-2003, 02:48 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Brinly, you mean "it's crazy", right? =)

TIO, I realize it's not a matter of personal preference, and that it may look "unproffessional" [sic]. I may try to slowly get myself away from using the apostrophe with acronyms, but it still looks strange. The whole punctuation marks within quotation marks still bug me though. Sometimes, it makes sense, but a lot of times, it doesn't.

As for the single quotes and double quotes...I usually use single quotes when talking about a word or short combination of words. I usually reserve double quotes for a phrase or to suggest innuendo. As for their "proper" usage...single quotes are used for quotes within double quotes.
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