Sun Tzu

I initially had two dogs a male rott and a female akita. Ive had them for five years and they more or less became "life mates". I got a third dog (a male puppy) and at first things were fine. As the puppy reached his adolescent phase he began challenging the adult male. The fights became so severe that I had to give the younger male away. That was painful, because he looked at me with eyes that were saying "what did I do, I dont want to go".

I share a large property with another person, and that person just got a female dog. Now the two females are starting to go at it.

I have heard that you need to let dogs go at it to establish a pecking order. Each time I do that one of them ends up with a new scar. Some of them have bordered needing sutures.

I have also heard that it is not a good idea to let them go at it; that it should be stopped immediately. This isnt always possible when we are not here.

Should dogs be allowed to fight (not referring to pit fighting) or should they be stopped?

Does anyone have any suggestions or experience with this?

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

shakran

i'm a proponent of stopping it IF you can do it safely. Dogs are a lot stronger and quicker than you are so you could quickly find yourself in trouble if you get in the middle of it. But a bucket of water or a high-pressure hose can sometimes shock them into stopping the fight.

StanT

I've always used a hose or a bucket of water to break up fights. Some degree wrestling, etc, comes with the territory, but I'll stop it if it gets out of hand.

While my Newfoundland is as docile as it gets, she is also the alpha dog. I keep a bucket on the porch when someone visits with a dog. Picabo won't start a fight, but she will defend herself.

Sun Tzu

So you think that the philosophy of letting them establish a pecking order on their own is not a good idea. I'm not really worried about my safety. While I know I could get bit accidently they would stop instantly if they knew it was me they bit.

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Willravel

As far as pecking order is concerned, you are the alpha male/female. They can establish a pecking order amongst themselves, but you have to make it clear that infighting in your pack is unacceptable. If you allow them to fight too much, they can be injured or killed, and I know that's the last thing any dog owner wants.

I've loved all my dogs, and I want them to be happy and free, but at the end of the day they live by my rules because my rules keep them safe.


BTW, I love rots and akitas. Awesome breeds.

thingstodo

That is so true. You hear it all the time on The Dog Wisperer.

We have two dogs three years apart. The younger one is a little larger and started keeping the other one away from us at certain times. Once we established that I am the alpha and removed attention to the younger one, the fighting stopped. It was amazing. Ceasar was right!!

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Stangers have the best candy.

Willravel

The dog whisperer? They do that?

Lady Sage

Dogs are pack animals and always have a pecking order. Lawsuits are enough of a reason for me not to let them fight it out...

Thankfully I have a fenced in back yard so I dont have this particular issue, but I feel your pain.

jorgelito

Fighting should not be allowed under any circumstances.

shakran

That's correct. As Willravel said, YOU are the alpha, not any of them. They follow YOUR rules and one of your rules ought to be "no fighting."

thingstodo

It's a show on the National Geographic channel. Or you're just being funny and in that case, Ha Ha!

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

Willravel

Wasn't kidding. I had not heard of it until you mentioned it. I'll have to check it out, as it sounds both interesting and quite relevant - espically to us dog owners out there. I hope there's an episode that teaches you how to stop the dog from barking.

Elphaba

Our newfie siblings would 'play' fight and you certainly didn't want to be in the middle of the clash of the titans (they ran toward each other and rose on their hind legs when they met with much ado). But sometimes they got ugly with each other over stupid things like rawhide bones that required intervention. I am not so stupid as to put myself between dogs that each outweighed me, but I have a very powerful "NO" voice when needed. It usually worked with them and almost always works now.

Sometimes it's useful for the human species as well.

lurkette

I don't bust up occasional dominance scuffles - growls and lunges, ritualized aggression - but if they're fighting on a regular basis (more than once/day), if they're biting at all, or if they're guarding humans as a resource, I'll separate them. Jean Donaldson says that occasional fights are par for the course, and that the dogs' safety and the owner's comfort level should determine when you break up fights. The "how" is individual to each dog, unfortunately.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

StanT

Yours do that too? Mine does it with her 80# Golden Retriever "brother" and it's funny as hell. He goes flying every time, but keeps coming back for more. No biting, just full speed chest butting.

Elphaba

What's up with that? I've never seen it except for the two newfs. Could it be something breed specific?


Sorry for the threadjack here...

lindalove

My question would be are all your animals spayed and neutered? If not, that alone can cause alot problems. My next question would be are all the dogs obedience trained?

Should pecking order be allowed to be established? Yes, but within reason. Allowing dogs to rip into each other day after day is never a good idea. The end results are never pleasant even if all animals survive such little outbursts.

I used to dog sit for that had 5 Dobermans. At the time the owner had 2 males and 3 females.

The two males had to be separated at all times as they would fight to the death. Both dogs were close to 100 pounds and there was no way the owner could break up a fight without putting herself in immediate danger, so she had to alternate who was crated and who was loose. The male that was crated during the day was allowed run of the house at night. Everyday she would switch who was loose during the day/ night. Neither male was neutered, even though the owner was told to have the more aggressive male neutered throughout his entire life as he also had issues with people.

The three females didn't get along either. None of the dogs bothered the "grandmother" of the bunch, but one of the grand daughters liked to pick fights with everybody. Because of her disposition, she has neck issues due to being scrappy with one of her brothers that kicked her butt. She's also known to be snarly with people. While she is all noise, seeing a large mass wrapped in a blanket that is growling at you can either raise a few eyebrows or make a person laugh. I just happened to think it was funny even though I let her know that growling just because I touched her prize blanket while she was in it was unacceptable.

Now consider the breeds you are trying to get to live in peace. Akitas are from Japan and are known to be scrappy, although I've seen a few that topped the ranks of being wuss like. Rotti's are also scrappy by nature so to ask that too many dogs with the same temperment to live under one roof and never as much as grumble will never happen.

Cats are known to have a limit of how many other felines they will share a household with. When there is "too many" behavioral issues start. Usually the bad behaviors start with one or more cats urinating around the house. This is their way of saying "Hey you, Human! Things around here are getting too catty, so I'm going to piss on your stove or in the middle of your bed as my way of letting you know that somebody needs to leave!" I believe dogs are the same way only they tend to take it out on each other, then start doing things around the house should the fighting not work.

If the dogs are just "squabbling" amongst each other, I wouldn't worry about it to much. Even my dogs occasionally sputter at each other and it's harmless. Usually Angel is the noise maker because Taz is chewing on her neck or grabbing her feet. When Taz is told to knock it off, Angel in return gets all bent out of shape at me for speaking to her "puppy" even if he does annoy the hell of her sometimes.

If the dogs are doing nothing more seeing just how many punture wounds they can inflict on each other, it's time to do something about it. That's not what I would consider a quality life and vet bills don't come cheap. If kenneling isn't an option, you may have to start leash walking and find other ways to ensure your dogs are getting plenty of exercise. Neither Akita's or Rotti's require tons of exercise time so you have that to your advantage. Trying to force the animals to get along is not going to work. If anything your stress from them not getting along will provoke more fights as the dogs will be reading your body language. If one of yours gets his/ her signals mixed, he /she will read your stress as a sign of fear and will try to protect you instead of just simply behaving his/ her self.

Good luck, and as it has already been said, keep a hose or bucket handy should growling sessions turn into something more severe.