Should I go to Grad school? If so what for? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

eyeronic · 07-17-2003, 08:28 PM

I am debating between getting an English Lit. PhD and a creative writing(Fiction) MFA. Any words of wisdom out there?

I am in the New York area and would like to go to school here.

I love writing, but see a lot of trouble getting a related job. I would also love to be an English prof., but fear the scholarship and studying works about works about works. I love the works themselves damnnit!

I am almost 28 and need to get my shit together. I'm studying like a madman for the GREs no matter what.

HELP!!!

Leviathan[NCV] · 07-17-2003, 10:29 PM

Well, personally I go for what I love. If you find what you love, and you're good at it, you can make money, period (there are exceptions of course).

On that note, do what you enjoy man..

Levitahan.

bigoldalphamale · 07-18-2003, 05:40 AM

grad school is expensive ( i am currently paying @ $75k for my MBA). having said that...you had best be CERTAIN that your graduate degree is going to be instrumental in opening doors to your career field of choice. fortunately, the GRE's are the easiest of all post undergrad entrance exams (MCAT, GMAT, LSAT) and so if you do really really REALLY well...you could find yourself looking at a good bit of scholarship money to lighten the financial burden. good luck!

dudemac · 07-18-2003, 05:46 AM

It all depends what you want to do.

Teach? If so Where? Highschool, college?

If you want to teach in college you will need the Ph.d to make sure you are employable.

If the highschool level a masters will keep you employed in the cut bak years and will be worth more to you in the long run salary wise.

If you are not going to teach, a masters or phd in english will not help much in the corp. world. But never hurt, many book editors have masters and such.

Rodney · 07-18-2003, 10:50 AM

Go with what you love the most. Let the rest work itself out later.

If you truly like both alternatives equally, go with the one you think will make you most employable. But only if you like them absolutely equally.

Otherwise, you may find yourself eventually writing one of those New York novels with a plotline that goes "I'm 40, I've got a lousy sex life and I majored in the wrong subject."
:-)

07-18-2003, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigoldalphamale
you had best be CERTAIN that your graduate degree is going to be instrumental in opening doors to your career field of choice.

So true. I work with people with PhD's they'll never use. I'm finishing a bachelor's in my carreer field, and know it'll get me someplace. Writing a dissertation about the mating habits of dolphins will not. Explore your options, but don't waste your time.

Good luck!

eyeronic · 07-19-2003, 01:52 PM

Thanks for the advice so far. I think I would really love to teach, but probably not at the high school level. Unless it was at some sort of gifted school or something. I want intellectual stimulation most of all.

The problem with the MFA is that it can only go towards helping me get a job teaching writing and nothing else. The good thing about the MFA isw that it would force me to do some serious writing and I think I would be able to get published at least in lit. mags if I did so.

The best thing about the PhD is that if I could only make it part way through, I could then snag a MA with which I could teach and still be at the same spot as I would be after an MFA careerwise. And if I did make it through I would be able to teach at a college level and I think I'd really love that.

Choices, choices.

BigJayz · 07-20-2003, 08:07 AM

Should you go to grad shcool??? YES!

Why??? If for no other reason, for the student loans!!!! You can borrow an insane amount at a killer interest rate right now, not have to pay anything back until you finish school and invest the money and make a killing on your returns as soon as the economy starts improving (it wont be long now!)

gar1976 · 07-24-2003, 06:57 PM

Be cynical of your prof's advice - remember, the teachers keep their jobs by convincing more kids to take their classes...some of the "soft" degrees (history, lit, etc.) will force you down very limited career paths (teaching or writing).

But then again, this is coming from someone with an accounting degree, so make sure you do something you enjoy too!

warmingup2prose · 07-24-2003, 11:59 PM

in august i'll be beginning an MFA program in creative writing...so yeah, i understand the conundrum. my best advice? if you're worried about money, look at the schools and what they offer...see if you can get a fellowship based on your talent. they're highly competitive, but if you're talented you'll get something. speaking from the MFA perspective, there are tons of things you can do with an MFA besides teach and write--i swear! you can work at a magazine, a publishing house, a theatre company...there are many more places. OH--you can also teach at college level with an MFA in many places--both writing classes and english classes if you have the right concentrations. also, if you get an MFA, you can also go on to doctoral work...and might actually be favored over someone with an MA, if you play your cards right.

are you a writer, or a researcher?
my best friend is going the doctorate route--she's into the research and works-about-works thing. she's also a hell of a writer, but doesn't want to persue that, and will be completely happy, waist-deep in commentaries. my favorite english professor, though, complained all the time about not having time to write what she wanted because of the pressure to publish academic works and all the papers she had to grade. it's a tossup. decide what will work for you.

tmricha · 07-28-2003, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eyeronic
Thanks for the advice so far. I think I would really love to teach, but probably not at the high school level. Unless it was at some sort of gifted school or something. I want intellectual stimulation most of all.

The problem with the MFA is that it can only go towards helping me get a job teaching writing and nothing else. The good thing about the MFA isw that it would force me to do some serious writing and I think I would be able to get published at least in lit. mags if I did so.

The best thing about the PhD is that if I could only make it part way through, I could then snag a MA with which I could teach and still be at the same spot as I would be after an MFA careerwise. And if I did make it through I would be able to teach at a college level and I think I'd really love that.

Choices, choices.

I really dont advise this and I have my Masters degree in Finance. Everyone talks about "well, if I just invest it, my returns will be higher." we all know that when in college, the only thing that gets invested in is the social life.

eyeronic · 07-28-2003, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tmricha
I really dont advise this and I have my Masters degree in Finance. Everyone talks about "well, if I just invest it, my returns will be higher." we all know that when in college, the only thing that gets invested in is the social life.

Huh?

tmricha · 07-29-2003, 01:20 PM

oops, meant to quote the post about getting all the college loans at great rates and getting better returns

DelayedReaction · 07-29-2003, 07:18 PM

Depends on what you want to do. I've decided that I really want to teach at the college level, and this means getting a doctorate and becoming a professor. I feel that academia is a place that I could be happy with, and would enjoy doing research and teaching. I'm also an engineering major, so it's slightly different.

Talk to your profs. They've been down that road, and can help you a great deal.

eyeronic · 08-04-2003, 09:31 PM

I'm starting to consider Journalism and Art History. Hmmm. God, I'm clueless.

dylanmarsh · 05-09-2004, 03:19 PM

Have you ever considered finding an internship somewhere to stoke your interest in the something completely different from your undergrad degree? I did an internship at the House of Representatives in Phoenix and have become completely immersed in the political spectrum. I'm taking a year off from school right now and preparing for the LSAT in October. All I can say is try something you never have thought of or would even consider doing and see what happens. The worst that can happen is that you have an extra something on your resume.

BTW, I have an undergrad in Eng Lit/Writing and have no intentions of giving up my writing. Our passions and loves help us live but do not always dictate what we have to do in order to survive.

Jesus Pimp · 05-09-2004, 03:41 PM

Here something I found the other day..

Quote:

Public Service Announcement regarding Grad School
Here is what graduate school in the humanities is: a gym for intellectuals.

That's it. Just like you can get physically fit without a gym, you can get everything grad school offers and more if you assemble a committed group of colleagues/friends all willing to meet for 6 or more hours a week to discuss books on syllabi you can easily obtain off the Web. You also need the discipline to produce 20 page essays engaging those books in fresh ways within the formats of academic journals in your field of choice. Also, you want to be submitting proposals for panels and talks to conferences in the field. Call yourself an "independent scholar" and be done with it. People do it more frequently than you'd think. If you want to live a life of the mind, it's yours for the living, grad school or not. Of course it is easier to do it with like-minded people who have equipment and experience and a set routine for doing stuff. That's why it's easier to get fit at a gym than at home with Jane Fonda tapes and a bag of Doritos.

Here is what graduate school in the humanities is not: a job path.

Let me repeat that. Do not go to graduate school hoping that somehow, you'll come out with a higher paying job, or even an academic job at the end. That odds are very strong that you won't. It is now common knowledge that all humanities Ph.D. programs have a 5:1 ratio with regard to acceptances versus actual academic jobs available for graduates. Do not whine when you have no backup plan for your life should you become a statistic. Again: no whining allowed.This goes double for all people getting MFA's in creative fields. You want to publish? Start publishing. You want to direct films? Likewise.

Here is why you ought to put off grad school

Grad school is designed to help you augment your already existing intellectual work, not a place to help you figure out what your intellectual work is. This is why most students fresh out of undergraduate life shouldn't be going to graduate school. Here's another thing: lots of smart people don't think of themselves as having intellectual "work," but grad students do. I like being in shape, but I don't look at my body and assess what needs working on, the way a professional athelete does. Grad students sit around and wonder if they'll ever understand Lacan without reading him in French. Smart people just get one of the many fine anthologies where people talk about Lacan and leave it at that. This doesn't make a grad student "better" than a smart person. It makes them different. Do you see?

Here is a reason to go to grad school.

Everyday, people take on lifetime goals like marathon running. Nobody asks them, "What are you going to do with that?" because everyone knows that some things you just gotta do. I'm a huge believer in big goals like marathons, because I think they build character, show you where you stack up in a certain universe, and a million other cliches. I also think that if you hurt yourself, or find yourself absolutely miserable in one sort of marathon, you should try another. Triathaletes are cooler than long distance runners, anyway, just like public intellectuals and documentary filmmakers are much cooler than Ph.D.'s who hide in their office all day . Although I'm hating the end of my dissertation (okay, love/hating, and only because I want to move on) I loved the experience of graduate school. But I've always liked school in general. If this doesn't sound like you, don't go. PLEASE DON'T GO.

The world is as intellectually vital as you commit to making it for yourself. And you know what? You don't need grad school to make it so.

la petite moi · 05-09-2004, 03:46 PM

Yeah, like a few people have said, I have heard about people doing post-grad work, and then not getting jobs because the employers excuse is: 'You're overqualified...'

eyeronic · 09-11-2004, 06:35 PM

I am going to try to get into NYUs Museum Studies program. It looks awesome. Glad I waited and didn't do the English thing.

***edit*** Funny, I just reread and realized that I started this over a year ago when I was "almost 28." Now I am 29 and I feel so much more together. What a difference a year makes!

maleficent · 09-11-2004, 06:58 PM

Sounds like it's an interesting program-- museums have always fascinated me... good luck -- hope you get into it...

Paradise Lost · 09-13-2004, 06:06 PM

Dude, if I could have one other job other than being a computer programmer, it would
definately be hacking my way up to being a Museum Curator. You get to touch soooo
many things normal peoples can't even get to look at.

popo · 09-13-2004, 07:06 PM

Casll me cynical, but do the thing that will allow you to earn the most money.

Everything gets dull after years of doing it everyday.

ibis · 09-13-2004, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJayz

Should you go to grad shcool??? YES!

Why??? If for no other reason, for the student loans!!!! You can borrow an insane amount at a killer interest rate right now, not have to pay anything back until you finish school and invest the money and make a killing on your returns as soon as the economy starts improving (it wont be long now!)

B.S. That's the stupidest reason I've ever heard. I normally don't respond to stuff like this... but I couldn't help it this time.

TIO · 09-14-2004, 07:05 AM

http://www.phdcomics.com

If ^ that looks like fun to you, you're a sick, sad individual, and would fit right in at grad school

07-17-2003, 08:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
eyeronic I run E. Location: New York	Should I go to Grad school? If so what for? I am debating between getting an English Lit. PhD and a creative writing(Fiction) MFA. Any words of wisdom out there? I am in the New York area and would like to go to school here. I love writing, but see a lot of trouble getting a related job. I would also love to be an English prof., but fear the scholarship and studying works about works about works. I love the works themselves damnnit! I am almost 28 and need to get my shit together. I'm studying like a madman for the GREs no matter what. HELP!!! __________________ I hold with those that favor fire.

07-18-2003, 05:46 AM	#4 (permalink)
dudemac Tilted Location: College Station, TX	It all depends what you want to do. Teach? If so Where? Highschool, college? If you want to teach in college you will need the Ph.d to make sure you are employable. If the highschool level a masters will keep you employed in the cut bak years and will be worth more to you in the long run salary wise. If you are not going to teach, a masters or phd in english will not help much in the corp. world. But never hurt, many book editors have masters and such. __________________ Dudemac Author Somewhere

07-19-2003, 01:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
eyeronic I run E. Location: New York	Thanks for the advice so far. I think I would really love to teach, but probably not at the high school level. Unless it was at some sort of gifted school or something. I want intellectual stimulation most of all. The problem with the MFA is that it can only go towards helping me get a job teaching writing and nothing else. The good thing about the MFA isw that it would force me to do some serious writing and I think I would be able to get published at least in lit. mags if I did so. The best thing about the PhD is that if I could only make it part way through, I could then snag a MA with which I could teach and still be at the same spot as I would be after an MFA careerwise. And if I did make it through I would be able to teach at a college level and I think I'd really love that. Choices, choices. __________________ I hold with those that favor fire.

07-29-2003, 07:18 PM	#14 (permalink)
DelayedReaction BFG Builder Location: University of Maryland	Depends on what you want to do. I've decided that I really want to teach at the college level, and this means getting a doctorate and becoming a professor. I feel that academia is a place that I could be happy with, and would enjoy doing research and teaching. I'm also an engineering major, so it's slightly different. Talk to your profs. They've been down that road, and can help you a great deal. __________________ If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

08-04-2003, 09:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
eyeronic I run E. Location: New York	I'm starting to consider Journalism and Art History. Hmmm. God, I'm clueless. __________________ I hold with those that favor fire.

07-17-2003, 10:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Leviathan[NCV] Well... Location: afk	Well, personally I go for what I love. If you find what you love, and you're good at it, you can make money, period (there are exceptions of course). On that note, do what you enjoy man.. Levitahan.

07-18-2003, 05:40 AM	#3 (permalink)
bigoldalphamale Loser	grad school is expensive ( i am currently paying @ $75k for my MBA). having said that...you had best be CERTAIN that your graduate degree is going to be instrumental in opening doors to your career field of choice. fortunately, the GRE's are the easiest of all post undergrad entrance exams (MCAT, GMAT, LSAT) and so if you do really really REALLY well...you could find yourself looking at a good bit of scholarship money to lighten the financial burden. good luck!

07-18-2003, 10:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	Go with what you love the most. Let the rest work itself out later. If you truly like both alternatives equally, go with the one you think will make you most employable. But only if you like them absolutely equally. Otherwise, you may find yourself eventually writing one of those New York novels with a plotline that goes "I'm 40, I've got a lousy sex life and I majored in the wrong subject." :-)

07-20-2003, 08:07 AM	#8 (permalink)
BigJayz Crazy Location: Sunny So. Cal.	Should you go to grad shcool??? YES! Why??? If for no other reason, for the student loans!!!! You can borrow an insane amount at a killer interest rate right now, not have to pay anything back until you finish school and invest the money and make a killing on your returns as soon as the economy starts improving (it wont be long now!)

07-24-2003, 06:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
gar1976 Custom User Title Location: Lurking. Under the desk.	Be cynical of your prof's advice - remember, the teachers keep their jobs by convincing more kids to take their classes...some of the "soft" degrees (history, lit, etc.) will force you down very limited career paths (teaching or writing). But then again, this is coming from someone with an accounting degree, so make sure you do something you enjoy too!

07-24-2003, 11:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
warmingup2prose Upright	in august i'll be beginning an MFA program in creative writing...so yeah, i understand the conundrum. my best advice? if you're worried about money, look at the schools and what they offer...see if you can get a fellowship based on your talent. they're highly competitive, but if you're talented you'll get something. speaking from the MFA perspective, there are tons of things you can do with an MFA besides teach and write--i swear! you can work at a magazine, a publishing house, a theatre company...there are many more places. OH--you can also teach at college level with an MFA in many places--both writing classes and english classes if you have the right concentrations. also, if you get an MFA, you can also go on to doctoral work...and might actually be favored over someone with an MA, if you play your cards right. are you a writer, or a researcher? my best friend is going the doctorate route--she's into the research and works-about-works thing. she's also a hell of a writer, but doesn't want to persue that, and will be completely happy, waist-deep in commentaries. my favorite english professor, though, complained all the time about not having time to write what she wanted because of the pressure to publish academic works and all the papers she had to grade. it's a tossup. decide what will work for you.

07-29-2003, 01:20 PM	#13 (permalink)
tmricha Upright	oops, meant to quote the post about getting all the college loans at great rates and getting better returns

05-09-2004, 03:19 PM	#16 (permalink)
dylanmarsh Sleepy Head	Have you ever considered finding an internship somewhere to stoke your interest in the something completely different from your undergrad degree? I did an internship at the House of Representatives in Phoenix and have become completely immersed in the political spectrum. I'm taking a year off from school right now and preparing for the LSAT in October. All I can say is try something you never have thought of or would even consider doing and see what happens. The worst that can happen is that you have an extra something on your resume. BTW, I have an undergrad in Eng Lit/Writing and have no intentions of giving up my writing. Our passions and loves help us live but do not always dictate what we have to do in order to survive.

05-09-2004, 03:46 PM	#18 (permalink)
la petite moi Filling the Void. Location: California	Yeah, like a few people have said, I have heard about people doing post-grad work, and then not getting jobs because the employers excuse is: 'You're overqualified...'

09-11-2004, 06:35 PM	#19 (permalink)
eyeronic I run E. Location: New York	I am going to try to get into NYUs Museum Studies program. It looks awesome. Glad I waited and didn't do the English thing. *edit* Funny, I just reread and realized that I started this over a year ago when I was "almost 28." Now I am 29 and I feel so much more together. What a difference a year makes! __________________ I hold with those that favor fire.

09-11-2004, 06:58 PM	#20 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Sounds like it's an interesting program-- museums have always fascinated me... good luck -- hope you get into it... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

09-13-2004, 06:06 PM	#21 (permalink)
Paradise Lost "Afternoon everybody." "NORM!" Location: Poland, Ohio // Clarion University of PA.	Dude, if I could have one other job other than being a computer programmer, it would definately be hacking my way up to being a Museum Curator. You get to touch soooo many things normal peoples can't even get to look at. __________________ "Marino could do it."

09-13-2004, 07:06 PM	#22 (permalink)
popo Psycho	Casll me cynical, but do the thing that will allow you to earn the most money. Everything gets dull after years of doing it everyday.

09-14-2004, 07:05 AM	#24 (permalink)
TIO Addict Location: The Land Down Under	http://www.phdcomics.com If ^ that looks like fun to you, you're a sick, sad individual, and would fit right in at grad school __________________ Strewth