The lies people tell - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Yakk · 06-02-2004, 12:25 PM

This article is about a book, which studies the lies people of each sex tend to tell. Some interesting and cute material.

My personal favourate part:

Quote:

Researchers have found some people who always tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, regardless of the outcome.

They tend to have limited and difficult social lives.

;-)

Quote:

Posted on Wed, Jun. 02, 2004

The truth is relative to men, women

By Jeff Elder
KNIGHT RIDDER NEWSPAPERS

Do men lie more than women?

Researchers say no. Some believe women lie more than men.

So why are there a half-dozen books specifically about men lying to women?

Why is this the topic of countless afternoon talk shows? Why did many of the women who read the first line of this story probably think to themselves, "Whatever you try to tell me, buddy, the answer is yes."

Because men and women lie in very different ways. They even have different definitions of what lying is.

And that can make the game of "he said/she said" very dicey indeed.

First, here's the truth on lying: Almost all people -- of both genders -- get the ol' polygraph jumpin'.

A 2002 study at the University of Massachusetts found that 60 percent of people tested lied at least once during a 10-minute conversation and told an average of two to three lies.

In a study at the University of Virginia, Charlottesville, college students admitted lying to their boyfriends and girlfriends in about one-third of their interactions with each other. (They lied to their moms in about one-half of their interactions.)

"We're just not practiced at telling the truth," says psychologist Dory Hollander, who interviewed more than 100 men and women for her book "101 Lies Men Tell Women: And Why Women Believe Them."

"We see the truth as brutal. A lie is an easy way out, rather than risking offending someone," Hollander says.

Researchers have found some people who always tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, regardless of the outcome.

They tend to have limited and difficult social lives.

Almost everyone lies. But how they lie -- especially how the different genders lie -- is what can make personal communication so difficult.

How a woman lies: "Oh, I love your hair! No, I don't think you went too far. I might have to get that done myself."

How a man lies: "I'm a millionaire. I'd like to marry before I turn 25. I like your cat."

Different motivations

Hollander and other researchers found that women tend to lie to spare someone's feelings or to avoid conflict. Men tend to lie to make themselves seem more impressive, or to get something. (Like sex.)

Hollander's research found that the two sexes are even different in how they define lying. Women said a lie is an intentional untruth "that hurts someone." Men said a lie was a misstatement of the facts. (Not mentioning something was not a lie, many men said.)

"Women's lies are not that sexy," Hollander said. "Men's lies can be very creative."

In fact, many researchers have found that women lie to underreport the number of sexual partners they've had.

Hollander was once interviewed for "The Oprah Winfrey Show" on the lies women tell men. The show decided not to run the segment.

Women certainly lie to men. But the overall pattern of deception in relationships -- at least the one that sells books and ends up on afternoon TV -- goes something like this:

Some men -- not all men -- lie to make themselves seem more impressive when approaching women. They see the dating game as a competition and think they have to outdo rivals. So they self-aggrandize.

Some (again, some) men then go on to lie about wanting a lasting, intimate relationship. They assume women want this, and that only by hinting at a relationship can they get love, sex and companionship.

Then they find themselves trapped in a relationship they didn't want, pretending to be someone they're not. So they lie to get space from their partner. Or they lie and cheat on that partner.

Smoke screens

And finally, they lie to escape.

Hollander says that cycle damages both people. The lied-to, obviously, feels betrayed. But something many men don't wake up to until later in life is that the liar also never feels intimacy or love. The lies are always in the way.

It often starts with men feeling unconfident in the first place.

"Many men think they need to present themselves as a worthy catch," says Sally Caldwell, a professor of sociology at Texas State University in San Marcos. "There is a great emphasis on status in our society, especially for men."

The lying cycle propels a relationship into fairy tale romance, says Caldwell, author of "Romantic Deception: The Six Signs He's Lying."

"Romantic deception is front-end loaded with romance," Caldwell says. "It may be the grand embodiment of the American dream."

But it takes time to really get to know someone, or really build a relationship, Caldwell says. If everything seems perfect, there are probably some lies being traded back and forth.

In fact, imperfection might be the best hope for truth in romance. If men don't lie in the first place to try to seem impressive, many of the other lies don't follow, experts say.

"Women are often quite forgiving of a man's flaws," Hollander says. "They like men who are funny or kind or vulnerable."

"Oh, absolutely," concurs Caldwell. "Many of the women I interviewed were deceived by a charmer, but later happily settled for an ordinary guy."

Hollander even found that men who admitted they were leery of a relationship scored points with women.

"It can be quite endearing to meet someone who's honest about not wanting a close relationship. If a man starts out by expressing his doubts, he creates an arena for intimacy. He's showing who he really is," Hollander says.

Can honesty really compete with sexy lies? In the long run honesty builds much better relationships. But sexy lies seem to entice us.

Hollander's book on lies men tell women sold well. But when she pitched a book on how to be more honest, publishers weren't interested.

Why not?

They said, "The truth is too small of a topic."

© 2004 ContraCostaTimes.com and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.contracostatimes.com

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/...printstory.jsp

Any other self-confessed "overly truthful" people out there? =)

Which version of "lie" do you agree with: is a statement or mistruth that is only to make someone else feel better a lie? Is omitting something a lie?

(note: if it asks for a password, try fark@fark.com password farkfark.)

lurkette · 06-02-2004, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yakk
Which version of "lie" do you agree with: is a statement or mistruth that is only to make someone else feel better a lie? Is omitting something a lie?

(note: if it asks for a password, try fark@fark.com password farkfark.)

I have to agree with the "male" definition of a lie - a misstatement of the facts. There are, of course, "lies of omission," but that's kind of a different category. Everyone lies. For me the relevant issue is which lies are "okay" and which ones are not. Lying to your friend to cover up a surprise party seems okay, but hiding an affair (those sneaky "lies of omission" - though I doubt you could conduct an affair without some outright lies) doesn't. Telling someone a little "white lie" to protect their ego probably seems okay, but in the end, are you doing them a favor, or are you just protecting your own feelings? For instance, someone might really look fat in those pants, or need to drop 10 pounds. It'd probably be better for them in the long run if they learned to dress more flatteringly, or got healthy, but it's uncomfortable to be the one telling someone something that you know is going to hurt their feelings. So I think little white lies like that are kind of a cop-out, but everyone does it.

maleficent · 06-02-2004, 12:37 PM

I have too bad a memory to out and out lie about things.

If a friend gets a new pixie haircut that makes her look like Magilla Gorilla, well, I'm not going to tell her it looks like hell, its not my place to tell her really.

If a friend asks for advice on something non-trivial (hair, clothes, stuff like that) then they will get the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I won't be hurtful about it, but if I value their friendship, and they are coming to me, then they are getting the truth.

Ommission is still lying, how bad the lie is, depends on how bad the ommission is. I'm having trouble coming up with an example - but I'll come back with one. Lying to make someone feel better, eh -- as long as it's not hurting someone else, who gives a rats patooty.

Cynthetiq · 06-02-2004, 12:47 PM

ugh... a g/f of mine had that book... she was trying to "tell me something" about our relationship, which in my mind was not b/f g/f but something much less. she wanted it to be b/f g/f and I wasn't having any of it.

adysav · 09-09-2004, 06:51 PM

How can omission be a lie when a lie is the presentation of false statements as true, and omission is the lack of presentation altogether. The two seem to be mutually exclusive.

Kazic · 09-09-2004, 09:49 PM

This one girl I wanted to be with lied to me constantly. It was ony after that I realized it. She would lie to make things go her way. Or lie about something to make me feel something else. Even to entrap me, so to speak to get me to tell her something she wanted to know. In the end she kept calling me a liar. As when I am in a corner like that I tell everything I can think of to show my innocence. Its really a werid thing. Not all women lie about the big things but the little things are the ones that I can't tell whether to beleive it.

slimshaydee · 09-09-2004, 10:23 PM

As chris rock said

Men tell the most lies, women tell the biggest lies (e.g. It's your baby)

braindamage351 · 09-10-2004, 06:52 PM

Men mostly lie to screw with a woman's initial judgement. It's the modern replacement for poetry. Really once we break the ice it's fine.

06-02-2004, 12:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	I have too bad a memory to out and out lie about things. If a friend gets a new pixie haircut that makes her look like Magilla Gorilla, well, I'm not going to tell her it looks like hell, its not my place to tell her really. If a friend asks for advice on something non-trivial (hair, clothes, stuff like that) then they will get the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I won't be hurtful about it, but if I value their friendship, and they are coming to me, then they are getting the truth. Ommission is still lying, how bad the lie is, depends on how bad the ommission is. I'm having trouble coming up with an example - but I'll come back with one. Lying to make someone feel better, eh -- as long as it's not hurting someone else, who gives a rats patooty. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

06-02-2004, 12:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	ugh... a g/f of mine had that book... she was trying to "tell me something" about our relationship, which in my mind was not b/f g/f but something much less. she wanted it to be b/f g/f and I wasn't having any of it. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

09-09-2004, 09:49 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kazic Psycho Location: Fortress of Solitude	This one girl I wanted to be with lied to me constantly. It was ony after that I realized it. She would lie to make things go her way. Or lie about something to make me feel something else. Even to entrap me, so to speak to get me to tell her something she wanted to know. In the end she kept calling me a liar. As when I am in a corner like that I tell everything I can think of to show my innocence. Its really a werid thing. Not all women lie about the big things but the little things are the ones that I can't tell whether to beleive it. __________________ "Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids,we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

09-09-2004, 06:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
adysav Insane	How can omission be a lie when a lie is the presentation of false statements as true, and omission is the lack of presentation altogether. The two seem to be mutually exclusive.

09-09-2004, 10:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
slimshaydee If you've read this, PM me and say so Location: Sitting on my ass, and you?	As chris rock said Men tell the most lies, women tell the biggest lies (e.g. It's your baby)

09-10-2004, 06:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
braindamage351 Insane	Men mostly lie to screw with a woman's initial judgement. It's the modern replacement for poetry. Really once we break the ice it's fine.