Credit card fraud... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Dragonlich · 07-20-2004, 06:00 AM

I just checked my online credit card report (a rare thing for me), and discovered a bogus payment. Three days ago, someone has paid some 580 euros to (what appears to be) Paypal.

Of course, I contacted my bank, and they're blocking the card, and sending me a formal damages form. I also have to report it to the police. Being me, I decided to contact paypal too, see if they can do anything about it...

The questions: does anyone have experience with these things? What happens next? Do I have to pay anything, or is my bank going to pay? (It's a visa card, and it says in the fine print that there's a 45 Euro limit to damages if the card is stolen/used. Problem is: it wasn't stolen, just used online.) Any other tips, ideas or pointers?

God, I hate criminals...

NoSoup · 07-20-2004, 07:05 AM

Well, providing the laws are the same here in America...

You are personally liable for only a certain amount if the card was fraudulently used. I would image that it would be the amount specified. In many cases, though, the Credit Card company won't even make you pay that.

Make sure you cancel the card and get a new one with different numbers. Also consider how the thief got the credit card information to begin with, and decide if you think any other credit cards you own are comprimised. If so, call up the companies and order replacements. Make sure that your credit remains undamaged, as it may well be worth your time to pay the minium payment and just chalk it up as a loss than spend the obsene amount of time and the potential hassle of getting it fixed later.

Hope that helps

Dragonlich · 07-20-2004, 07:46 AM

Well, I did order a new card; it's the bank's policy in these cases.

How the thief got my info: there are two options I can think of.

1) When I destroyed my previous card (when it expired), I may not have destroyed it well enough. I cut it into small bits, which should be enough. I suppose it is theoretically possible that someone picked all the parts from my trash, rebuild the card, and (using common sense) thought up the expiry date. Possible, but unlikely. The card expired months ago, so why the long wait?

2) Someone broke into a database from two of the webshops I order stuff from. These are pretty much the only websites (or even shops in general) I've ever used my credit card with.

I thought of the possibility of physical theft, but the card is still there, and I typically/always keep it in my wallet, in my pocket. I've thought of one of those keylogger virii, but I scan regularly using various programs (norton AV, spyware S&D, ad-aware, and I use Sygate personal firewall software). But the problem is: I haven't used my credit card since may, so keyloggers can't have gotten the details recently.

I think I've got a mystery on my hands...

NoSoup · 07-20-2004, 02:21 PM

Indeed...

Do you have any young'uns or a g/f around that may have used it? Both of those seem kinda unlikely, although possible. If one of the shops was broken into, if they know about it, they should have informed you that your card may have been comprimised. If you can't think of anyone else, I would contact the companies and let them know, if several people report fraudulent activity and they are all tied to that company, you may have something...

maleficent · 07-20-2004, 02:32 PM

If you've used the card online, there is the possibility of online fraud.

There's also been more than one scam around where an email goes to random people, asking for Ebay information, Paypal info -- whatever, you go to a site (not associated with the legitimate vendor) and are asked to put in a credit card.

If your bank has a fraud division, they can investigate further - -like what info was given out? ie what was bought and by whom.

Computer crime is a huge problem....

Dragonlich · 07-20-2004, 09:17 PM

Paypal seems not to respond personally. This means that I've got no way to check who the money was send to. The automated responses only apply to account holders, and aren't of any use.

Anyway, no I have no kids or girlfriend (still looking), so that can't be it. The companies haven't informed me. (I might report to them, though).

I don't respond to scams. I don't use Ebay, nor do I use Paypal, nor do I like spam/scams. I'm probably using one of the most elaborate anti-spam systems around (for normal people anyway) - linux mail-server + spamassassin, combined with mailwasher on my windows box. Spam gets booted right away, and I only get e-mails from people I know. So that can't be it, either.

iccky · 07-27-2004, 05:30 PM

Since it was an online purchase, the numbers really could have been stolen by anyone who had acces to your card for 30 seconds out of your sight. I've heard that some waiters and storeclerks keep two credit card scanners, one that is real and one in their pocket that can record all of your information for their own use.

Do you shread your credit card bills?

Dragonlich · 07-28-2004, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by iccky
Since it was an online purchase, the numbers really could have been stolen by anyone who had acces to your card for 30 seconds out of your sight. I've heard that some waiters and storeclerks keep two credit card scanners, one that is real and one in their pocket that can record all of your information for their own use.

Do you shread your credit card bills?

I have never paid anything "in the flesh" with my credit card. I only used it for online purchases, and only at two websites. But you're right: anyone could have taken it for a few seconds to copy the numbers. It's just very unlikely - I'm *very* paranoid about my wallet.

The police officer I talked to mentioned that he had seen four cases of credit card fraud in the last couple of months, all involving the same type of card I use. It's a specific type that has an online summary (only online, so no weekly mailings); there's pretty much no other credit card that uses an online system like that. That might be the source of the fraud - the website shows the credit card number *and* expiry date on the same page. It may be encrypted, but a hacker might be able to get that info...

Dragonlich · 08-13-2004, 11:07 AM

Update: got a letter from the bank. Their preliminary investigation shows I've done nothing wrong, and they'll remove the payment from my credit card.

I'm just a bit nervous about using my new card online... It could happen again, after all.

Cynthetiq · 08-13-2004, 01:33 PM

glad that it's getting resolved and not a huge headache.

07-20-2004, 06:00 AM	#1 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	Credit card fraud... I just checked my online credit card report (a rare thing for me), and discovered a bogus payment. Three days ago, someone has paid some 580 euros to (what appears to be) Paypal. Of course, I contacted my bank, and they're blocking the card, and sending me a formal damages form. I also have to report it to the police. Being me, I decided to contact paypal too, see if they can do anything about it... The questions: does anyone have experience with these things? What happens next? Do I have to pay anything, or is my bank going to pay? (It's a visa card, and it says in the fine print that there's a 45 Euro limit to damages if the card is stolen/used. Problem is: it wasn't stolen, just used online.) Any other tips, ideas or pointers? God, I hate criminals...

07-20-2004, 07:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
NoSoup Non-Rookie Location: Green Bay, WI	Well, providing the laws are the same here in America... You are personally liable for only a certain amount if the card was fraudulently used. I would image that it would be the amount specified. In many cases, though, the Credit Card company won't even make you pay that. Make sure you cancel the card and get a new one with different numbers. Also consider how the thief got the credit card information to begin with, and decide if you think any other credit cards you own are comprimised. If so, call up the companies and order replacements. Make sure that your credit remains undamaged, as it may well be worth your time to pay the minium payment and just chalk it up as a loss than spend the obsene amount of time and the potential hassle of getting it fixed later. Hope that helps __________________ I have an aura of reliability and good judgement. Just in case you were wondering...

07-20-2004, 02:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
NoSoup Non-Rookie Location: Green Bay, WI	Indeed... Do you have any young'uns or a g/f around that may have used it? Both of those seem kinda unlikely, although possible. If one of the shops was broken into, if they know about it, they should have informed you that your card may have been comprimised. If you can't think of anyone else, I would contact the companies and let them know, if several people report fraudulent activity and they are all tied to that company, you may have something... __________________ I have an aura of reliability and good judgement. Just in case you were wondering...

07-20-2004, 02:32 PM	#5 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	If you've used the card online, there is the possibility of online fraud. There's also been more than one scam around where an email goes to random people, asking for Ebay information, Paypal info -- whatever, you go to a site (not associated with the legitimate vendor) and are asked to put in a credit card. If your bank has a fraud division, they can investigate further - -like what info was given out? ie what was bought and by whom. Computer crime is a huge problem.... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

08-13-2004, 01:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	glad that it's getting resolved and not a huge headache. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-20-2004, 07:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	Well, I did order a new card; it's the bank's policy in these cases. How the thief got my info: there are two options I can think of. 1) When I destroyed my previous card (when it expired), I may not have destroyed it well enough. I cut it into small bits, which should be enough. I suppose it is theoretically possible that someone picked all the parts from my trash, rebuild the card, and (using common sense) thought up the expiry date. Possible, but unlikely. The card expired months ago, so why the long wait? 2) Someone broke into a database from two of the webshops I order stuff from. These are pretty much the only websites (or even shops in general) I've ever used my credit card with. I thought of the possibility of physical theft, but the card is still there, and I typically/always keep it in my wallet, in my pocket. I've thought of one of those keylogger virii, but I scan regularly using various programs (norton AV, spyware S&D, ad-aware, and I use Sygate personal firewall software). But the problem is: I haven't used my credit card since may, so keyloggers can't have gotten the details recently. I think I've got a mystery on my hands...

07-20-2004, 09:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	Paypal seems not to respond personally. This means that I've got no way to check who the money was send to. The automated responses only apply to account holders, and aren't of any use. Anyway, no I have no kids or girlfriend (still looking), so that can't be it. The companies haven't informed me. (I might report to them, though). I don't respond to scams. I don't use Ebay, nor do I use Paypal, nor do I like spam/scams. I'm probably using one of the most elaborate anti-spam systems around (for normal people anyway) - linux mail-server + spamassassin, combined with mailwasher on my windows box. Spam gets booted right away, and I only get e-mails from people I know. So that can't be it, either.

07-27-2004, 05:30 PM	#7 (permalink)
iccky Psycho Location: Princeton, NJ	Since it was an online purchase, the numbers really could have been stolen by anyone who had acces to your card for 30 seconds out of your sight. I've heard that some waiters and storeclerks keep two credit card scanners, one that is real and one in their pocket that can record all of your information for their own use. Do you shread your credit card bills?

08-13-2004, 11:07 AM	#9 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	Update: got a letter from the bank. Their preliminary investigation shows I've done nothing wrong, and they'll remove the payment from my credit card. I'm just a bit nervous about using my new card online... It could happen again, after all.