SuperFLYboy12

Arlight, I'm going to be a 2nd year in UC Berkeley and I'm debating whether or not to join a fraternity (Sigma Pi). My friend is in the frat and he invited me to the Rush BBQ mainly just to get some food and hang out (btw I know like he wasn't trying to secretly get me to rush, we just wanted to hang out since we didn't see each other over the summer). So I got some food and met some of the guys, and I could tell that they were all pretty chill fellas.

Now for my stance on frats, I'm all for brotherhood and having a good time, but on the other hand I put academics first and foremost. I've tried participating in other clubs, but I always felt out of place. I also don't feel like joining a frat is just "paying for friends," I think the guys I met there are the kind of guys I'd hang out with anyways. The Sigma Pi chapter here isn't very big on campus, but people know about them. They aren't always throwing parties or anything like that, my friend mentioned that they're more about just chilling out, which is more of what i'd be looking for anyways.

Here's where it gets kinda jumbled. I could tell that the guys liked me and my friend even told me that they would want me to pledge. I just got a job at one of the libraries on campus and I'm also doing research on campus for one of the labs, so with those and class, I think I'm already pretty busy. But on the other hand, I probably do slack off a little more than I'd like, so if I did get on top of things, I probly could handle all of my responsibilities.

With regards to hazing, it seems like they aren't that bad about it. From what I heard from my friend, they do some stuff, but I really don't mind that part. I think I could deal with the hazing, its more of if I have the time to deal with it or not.

So that's pretty much it, hell, I'm not even sure if my mom is going to approve. I'm such a mama's boy, and I know she'll be all over the hazing part. Haha damn.

Thanks in advance for your input...

ibis

Sure, why not? Try it for a semester and see how you like it. If you don't, high-tail it out of there.

00111000

Yeah, what the hell...check it out. You say they really arent into the hazing so you may as well hang out with them all to see how it goes for you. You can find some great friends in strange places.

__________________
- And so he says, 'I don't like the cut of your jib.' And I go I says, IT'S THE ONLY JIB I GOT, BABY! -

Kostya

Here's what I don't understand... I mean these people are adults right, I mean they are over the age of 15... So what's the need for hazing? That's got to be the stupidest tradition I've ever heard of... 'Hey man, you can only join if you let us spank you with a paddle and then drink this mystery cocktail!' I mean seriously, what a bunch of losers...

I say you burn the frathouse to the ground...

Nah not really...

gar1976

Speaking as one who has gone through the process, there is a reason for hazing, believe it or not.

Check out how tight the groups are that go through a hazing process, be it physical or mental, and compare it to a group that experiences no hazing whatsoever. The hazing brings the group closer together and bonds them through a difficult and shared process and common pain.

Don't worry too much about it. Most of the time it's a big mindfuck. Just don't do anything too stupid, like drinking waaaaay past your limit, and you should be fine.

Ah, good times. Memories of Pepsi, Preparation H analgesics, and a call to the poison control line.

sailor

Like he said. As strange as it sounds, theres a reason for it.

I just went through the pledging process last year. When I first started, I too didnt see the point of hazing. However, like he said, it really does bring you closer to your pledge class. The guys that I pledged with are the guys I know and trust the most. That said, physical hazing is a load of bullshit--if brothers are physically harming anyone, get the hell out of there. There's no place for that, and if a pledge is expected to suddenly go from being beaten by brothers to being a fellow brother--how the hell does that work if a couple of days ago he was abusing you? Mindfucking on the other hand, is fair game, and has a definite purpose.

OK, hazing out of the way, you *really* need to find the fraternity that fits you best. I mean that. If it doesnt fit you, dont go there. I was and still am pretty anti-fraternity, but found this group of guys that to me represented what a fraternity *should* be, not what most of them actually are. No one here loses sight of why they are in school: to get an education. Everything else is secondary, including the fraternity. Work hard, then play hard. If the fraternity you are looking at is going to expect you to drop everything and let your grades suffer just to join, run. Its a pretty common occurence for GPAs to drop a bit during pledge semester (mine did), but keep them as high as you can. If you have a test the next morning, brothers shouldnt be pressuring you to go out and have a few beers. Stick to your guns about that, keep your priorities straight.

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

SuperFLYboy12

Ah thanks... but now I'm leaning towards not pledging.... I realized that I don't exactly see the point of joining now, like I don't see what joining will do for me anymore. I know that sounds kinda selfish, but I probly should start looking out for myself more often. I was being nice to the guys at the frat and I know I could fit in there, but I'm trying to figure out who I'm actually joining the frat for. Like is it really for myself, or is it for the frat guys just because I'm being nice? Obviously if it's for 2nd reason, I definitely am not going through with it, but if I'm actually doing it for myself, I need to see what it will accomplish for me.

I can already tell my grades are gonna take a hit if I do spend the time to pledge. Damn, I'm alredy falling asleep in my classes, and it's only the first week. Given, I could get a little better with sleeping and handling the whole workload, but still I'm not sure how much that would help in the long run.

I'm really trying not to feel like I'm letting those guys down if I do not pledge, but then I also can't let that influence me in my choice to join. Does my train of thought here sound good? I guess what I need to know are what other advantages there are to joining a frat, other than being able to hang out all the time. Thanks again...

rayray

I've been there too. I pledged, and was on the brink of joining when I had my epiphany. The question to ask yourself is this:

Are there better social settings in which you can meet people with whom you could get along with equally well? (Holy convoluted, Batman!)

ok, to rephrase, could you make friends that are equally cool, maybe even cooler, by joining other societies that interest you? As it turns out, I figured that these guys were all hanging out together because... well, they needed someone to hang out with. If that's the only reason you are there, bug out.

I had some baaad experiences after I told the guys I was done, and not going to complete the pledging process. Like physical-assault bad. It sort of showed me their true colors.

I know you said that you are bailing, and I think you made the right choice. I also think that getting involved in research now is a great plan (try functional morphology, the Wake group at Berkely is a powerhouse). Remember to keep your eye on the ball (the ball doesn't have to be medical school, by the way).

good luck

__________________
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K, Ted"
-Bill

Kostya

Firstly, it is unfortunate, but I can't 'check out' any Frat groups since I live in Australia and we don't have them.

Moreover, do you mean to tell me that somehow, hazing brings people 'closer together' through shared pain. I mean seriously, it's a frathouse man, they're not in the Nam, they don't need to save each other's lives. Sounds to me like they take themselves WAY to seriously if they think it's necessary to administer Preparation H in order to form a relationship...

Perhaps a better way would be to do away with the cloistered frat society where the levels of testosterone apparently kill brain cells at an alarming rate and simply just become friends the regular way...

gar1976

No, it's not Nam. It's a shared experience that allows you to relate very closely to someone else, and there's always going to be that bond. Go through it and you'll understand it a little better.

Is it for everyone? No. But sense there are no frats where you live, it's a little difficult to explain. Considering the tone of your post though, convincing you to open up to the idea a little appears to be a struggle.

*Nikki*

No. Don't buy friends..make them for free. Those are REAL friends.

sailor

OK, I have to address that one because I see it all the time and it isnt right... The reason you pay your dues isnt because you are "buying your friends"--its because having a house, and social functions (cocktails, formal, gameday barbeques, whatever) cost money. That money has to come from somewhere--it comes from dues.

The money should never come into it except to pay for those events. We have several brothers who have different payment plans set up and some who even pay less because they can't afford to pay the full dues. That's fine, it doesnt bother me. There are several who are inactive, whether because of personal choice or in one case financial problems. All of them are still friends with everyone in the fraternity and are welcome at any functions we have.

The bottom line is that it takes money. It would be the same as if you and a bunch of your friends decided to go rent a house together. That rent money doesnt appear out of nowhere, you have to pay it. The notion that I, or anyone else (at least in my experience), is buying their friends is simply wrong.

__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

gar1976

Buying friends? With the vast funds you have available in college? Shit, I know my friends are cheap, but a couple of PBR's isn't going to buy anyone's loyalty.

*Nikki*

This person asked for an opinion on if he should join a faternity. That is my opinion and that has been the experience that I have seen with faternites/sororities.

gar1976

Different chapters in the same fraternity operate on whole different wavelengths, not to mention the entire system varies wildly from college to college.

BTW, go Pikes!

punx1325

I am in fraternity and I have never been happier. I am apart of Sigma Phi Epsilon. We are different than most fraternities because we do not haze, just because it does nothing positive. We use the balanced man program which strives on becoming a better rounded individual. Yea you have to pay a lot of money, but in my opinion it is worth it. For what I pay I get alcohol, parties, trips (Las Vegas, Camping). I am always busy, and it has improved my social skills so much. I am a better person because of the fraternity. I highly recommend it, and look into more than one fraternity. Sigma Pi here is pretty big but all the guys are all the same, their moto is quantity not quality. Not to mention we get in a lot of fights with them, but every chapter is different. Pick a house that you like not because some friend is in there. You might end up hating it.

__________________
If something seems too good to be true, then it probably is....

gar1976

Oh, and in case you haven't noticed, most people either loves frats or hate them.

Kostya

I contest. Frankly I believe that hazing has little or no value in forming relationships. Shared experience need not be a test of endurance or any other such meaningless, gratuitous ritual. I mean, why not simply become friends with people who you feel a natural affinity with, this is a true bond, since it arises from meaningful aspects of tow people's character and disposition, it is not synthesised by ritual and mutual membership of an arbitrary institutional category. I mean if me and John Doe are friends because we like the same things, and simply get along like a house on fire, surely this is more valuable than being friends with someone simply because you are in the same frat.

wild weeds

actually its quite fan having a fraternity in college, with all those brotherhood, friendship. its sort of blend together with study and fan at the same time.

i myself belong to one fraternity its a service fraternity "ALPHA PHI OMEGA"

gar1976

You can definately tell who is and isn't a fan of the greek system!

Anyways, one last comment. Don't join a national frat just because a buddy of yours in another college is in a particular one - they vary from chapter to chapter, and there are even local frats that maybe only have 1 or 2 chapters. Go with the one you feel comfortable with, and that you get along with the best.

For MOST people who join, they are a lot of fun and a great way to get to know a lot of like-minded people on campus.

punx1325

Something interesting I found out at my rush meeting last night, people in fraternities and sororities statistically have a higher GPA than the rest of the school. By keeping yourself involved and having your brothers/sisters pushing you to keep your grades up really does make a difference.

__________________
If something seems too good to be true, then it probably is....

gar1976

That's also because we kick out the ones with low GPAs until they get them back up.

william

I haven't been part of a fraternity, I joined the military. If you lived in the barracks, it seems about the same (w/o the hazing). Both are about being part of an extended family. Hazing (w/in limits) seems to be a way to bring you closer to those you will be staying with. But if you really want to consider it, do the pro/con test on paper, and see which comes out on top.

shAzb0t

Talking about the hazing issue, I also agree that shared physical pain is pretty detrimental (or an immoral way to bond with people), but I do remember making big connections with people that you must work together with to overcome a challenge. I think throwing a bunch of bewildered people in a tough environment with an impossible task is a good way to really get those people to bond.

Draconis

As a punk, former harborer of blind hatred towards frats, and now proud member of the Beta Chapter of Pi Kappa Alpha, I'd like to make a few points:
A) It is in no way buying your friends. I used to use that line. It doesn't translate into what really happens. That money goes towards throwing parties and rush/pledging events that are more fun than anything else I have ever done. Hell, I have more fun at some of our parties than I did playing a show in front of 500 people.
B) When you're in a frat, you refer to the other members as brothers. This isn't some bullshit secret nomenclature. They actually are like brothers. My frat IS my family away from home. There is an unbreakable bond that pledging forms and I wouldn't trade it for the world.
C) Blind hatred of anything is dangerous. The person who hates without knowledge is more contemptable than the object of their hatred.
D) Hazing, if done at all, should in no way harm the pledge. Drinking to a point, which most college students would reach on that given night anyway, allows you to get to know people you normally wouldn't, as well as providing you with stories for ages to come. I personally look forward to meeting up in 50 years with my pledge class, when not one of us has a hair on our heads and just a marble or two left upstairs, because I know that I will still remember pledging like it was yesterday. I will of course have stories from the rest of my tenure at college, but pledging is when you build friendships that will last a lifetime.

Keep this in mind when commenting on fraternities. I didn't when I first came to college, but once I got to know the brothers, I saw how wrong I had been.

__________________
STEVE MCKENNA!

gar1976

Beta chapter...let's see....check the web site...

Davidson college? Where the hell is that? And update you're freakin' web page, you lazy slobs.

Delta Rho, Linfield, '98.

__________________
Blistex, in regards to crappy games -

They made pong look like a story driven RPG with a dynamic campaign.

Draconis

In a college of 1600, having a website just isn't all that important. It doesn't get the word out to potential rushes because by the time they hear that there's a PiKA on campus, we've already talked to them. Besides, the money for the server space meant less money for beer. I mean take your pick: beer or code? I'll take beer every time.

__________________
STEVE MCKENNA!

Draconis

Wow, the fact that it's even still up bewilders the hell out of me. Didn't even know that. Thanks for the tip.

__________________
STEVE MCKENNA!

gar1976

I was just giving you a hard time - Linfield has a student body of 1600, and our chapter hasn't even bothered to start a website.

Chuckle - beer fund. Always had to find creative ways to shuffle money to the social fund.

__________________
Blistex, in regards to crappy games -

They made pong look like a story driven RPG with a dynamic campaign.

pan6467

I don't know if your pledge week is up or not, I just saw this thread (someone else tho may like info).

I pledged (KAPPA SIGMA) my first time through college. Frats are much more than partying (if you get in a good one). They are more than just brothers also. It's networking and having someone there to help push you to do your best and support you when you are burnt out. The brothers can tell you what profs are good and which ones suck. The older ones give great advice (try to find a big brother that is most like you, same major, same goals, same type of study habits, etc.).

Your big brother becomes responsible for you and will do his best to make sure you get through as best as you can. He'll train you so that when your a big brother you will pass down what you have learnt.

Eventually once out of college belonging to a frat looks good on a resume. You have a network of friends that you develop close bonds with and they can come in handy later in life.

I agree with what has been stated, Hell Week or hazing is like boot camp. It makes sure you are fit enough mentally to survive, plus it brings all the other pledges together as a team, helping each other pull through. It's also a lot of fun, if you let it be.

If I had it to do over again, I would pledge again and I would have taken it more seriously than I had the first time. I was young and dumb and wouldn't listen, had I listened and let my brothers help me I would have been ok my first go round.

By all means pledge, youth is lived but only once and a frat gives you a great experience, lots of fun and most of all the support network everyone in college needs.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"