anleja

This has the potential to be a long post... I'll try to keep it to the basics. It is about renting a house, concerns with wiring safety, and a landlord conflict. (You may want to stop here if none of these things concern you.)

Last month I started living in an old house, renting. We had a problem with one of the electrical outlets not working. We called the landlord and they fixed it. Afterwards I was a bit uncomfortable with the possibilty of faulty wiring. We have about 8 antique electrical wall fixtures, of which maybe 3 work when you put in a lightbulb.

I decided to call the housing inspector to inquire if the house had passed an electrical inspection (law requires renters of newly aquired properties to get inspections).

The lady told me that their information indicated that they landlord was listed as living in MY house, not that they were renting it to people. Not good for the landlord, this gives the gov't the impression that they are not claiming our rent payments as income. I was also informed that the last inspection was when the house was under the ownership of the previous owner, also not good for the current landlord.

The lady told me that when the house WAS inspected, they found no issues with the electric. I said something about how I was concerned about faulty wiring, told her about the outlet and the antique light fixtures. The lady told me that they don't usually inspect outlets in their inspections, but since I mentioned there being potential problems she made a complaint on my behalf to get the place inspected. I told her I didn't want to make a complaint, I just wanted to see if the place had been inspected. Well, she would not withdraw the complaint. I think she was already suspicious of the landlord due to them not registering it as a rental property.

So I called my landlord to tell them to expect to be contacted about the whole inspection thing (I didn't tell them about the residence issue, I figured that is none of my business anyway). I felt bad because I am pretty sure they would take care of any concern... and the guy was kinda mad at me because I didn't go to him first.

All this happened several days ago, today we got a call from the landlord, who was pissed because he now has to pay for an inspection, which they are probably going to do in a few days. (he said that the inspection of the previous owner would be transfered to them, so according to him they would be in compliance if I didn't call.)

So, he said, tomorrow he is going to come and take out the antique wall fixtures, seal the wires and plaster the holes in the wall before the inspection. Obviously he thinks the fixtures would be an inspection concern.

So now, he is pissed because I should have gone to him with any concern. When I spoke to him right after I called the housing inspector, he told me that he would do anything to ensure a safe house for us. Therefore, it seems kinda odd he is just now removing the fixtures, and not because of safety, but because the place is going to be deeply inspected.

Thanks if you read this far. I know rental/inspection issues are not too exciting.

Anyway, can you think of a better way you would have handled this, given the above information? Did I overstep my boundaries?

Also, the landlord said the fixtures would be safe if we didn't turn them on. Does anyone know if this is true, if you know anything about wiring? Wait a minute, it is the type of swith that you turn clockwise to turn on, clockwise to turn off, and around and around, so it is impossible to even tell if the non working ones are in the on or off positions.

Dammit, I don't even really know the point of this post. I don't know if I should feel bad for making the landlord have to pay for a possibly unnecessay inspection, or if I should feel mad for him trying to make me feel bad for calling the inspector about a potential fire hazard concern.

gar1976

Classic. Just classic.

If you had gone to the landlord, he would have "poo-pooed" you off anyways. He might be pissed, but at least something will be done about them now one way or the other.

And don't expect to stay there too long.

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maleficent

How feasible is it for you to consider moving?

I probably would have tried to get the landlord to do more, before going over his head to the housing inspector, but this sounds like it could be a safety issue, so you have to kinda move quickly.

If he ends up with some fines or has to fix things - what's your lease like? Could he raise your rent? Or force you into leaving?

He's created some problems for himself by renting without declaring the place as a rental unit, and if things aren't up to code.

Is your insurance up to date?

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MSD

Install smoke alarms every five feet along the ceiling and store anything you can't afford to lose in a fire at a family member's house. Get the hell out of there ASAP. You have a self-interested, negligent, asshole for a landlord. If you suspect tax fraud, report his ass to the IRS and you'll get 10% of payments he evaded. Consider it revenge, not narking.

Get a disposable camera. Take pictures of every fixture that he intends to remove from far enough back to see where in the room each one is. In each picture, include a newspaper front page, and make the first and last picture on the roll of film a picture of that front page with the date clearly visible. Keep the developed pictures in a safe place in case an electrical fire occurs. That way, you have evidence.

anleja

I live in Michigan.

I'd rather not move. Since October 2001 this is the 7th place I've lived. I'm hoping to stay here a while.

I didn't feel I was going "over his head" by going to the housing inspector... my reason for calling them in the first place was to simply try getting some peace of mind by finding out if the place was inspected (I could have asked him, but I wanted to ask the inspector becasue they have nothing at stake). I actually talked to the woman who inspected it, and she said she only checked the main wiring boxes, no outlets or fixtures. She said if I wanted a complete electrical inspection I'd have to hire a private contractor. At this point I mentioned the fixtures not working, along with the previous problem we had regarding the outlet. Well, that got her attention, and she said they themselves were going to do the inspecting.

Today I took off a couple fixtures, and the wiring looks scary. OLD wires, covered in fabric and electrical tape, as opposed to the modern-day rubber. Frayed-looking. It is also kinda scary that the standard electrical inspections do not include an inspection of outlets and wiring. They only check those if there is a problem seen by the naked eye.

As far as the lease goes, we just signed a year lease, at a fixed rate, so he can't raise rent. As far as kicking us out, I'd like to see him try. The house is split into 2 apartments, and he is trying in vain to rent the other with little success, I doubt he'd get rid of us and have absolutely no tenants.

Of course if it is not up to code, I guess the city will be kicking us out...

Insurance... none. Jeez, I never even gave that any thought. Thanks for the reminder, I'm getting it ASAP.

I did check to make sure the smoke detectors are in working order. One per room.

Even if I wanted to move, I'm in no financial position to currently. As far as tax fraud, I think I already told the inspectors enough for them to put forward an investigation (which is partly why I think he is acting so pissy).

As far as using a camera... they are going to be here in about 6 hours, in the morning, to take the fixtures out. Hmm, seems like a strange thing to do after insisting to us they were safe.

In a few days the inspectors will inspect the place. I kinda hope nothing is wrong, obviously, but while them finding something wrong won't be a good thing, at least it will mean that my actions were not in vain. Actually, I'll feel better when the fixtures are taken care of. Maybe. I don't know how much the landlord's electrician friend knows about turn of the century wiring.

Anyway, if they patch up the walls... the texture of the wall is very unique, and will be impossible to duplicate, so I could even photograph the very visible patches.

It is my aim to put all this behind me, so long as I am satisfied by the in depth inspection indicating nothing to worry about.

Thanks for the responses... anybody want to move in upstairs from me? 4 bedroom, 2 bath. I'll give you time to think it over.

william

Don't let the landlord get to you. There's a tradeoff between renting and buying. You rent so you don't have to deal w/fixing what goes wrong. You buy when you can afford to do that. You said you had to have an inspection anyway, so why should the landlord get his panties in a bunch? If I learned anything in my life, it's this - SAFETY FIRST. Landlord doesn't like it? So what? If your wiring isn't up to code, it needs to be. That's why you rent! As far as him trying to hide the faulty wiring, that could be worse, since they probably won't cap off the old wiring.
In addition to taking pictures, you should think of starting a diary of what happens when, who you talk to, etc. It looks like things could get really ugly. If they do, you want to have facts of what happened and who you talked to, when you talked to them. Memory won't stand up in court. Well, it might, but it looks a lot better to turn the page than say "um, around this date...".
I've lived in apartments, some good, some better, so I feel for you. Good Luck!

vanblah

First of all ... don't feel guilty for calling attention to a bad situation. The landlord was not operating above the law. If he were operating above the law then he would have no reason to worry and no reason to get mad... right?

Inspectors don't usually look at receptacles; it just would take way too long. Sometimes when there are three-prong receptacles in an old house the inspector might look at one of those. That usually means that someone replaced a receptacle without a ground wire ... that's a big no-no (unless it's a GFCI outlet).

Secondly, don't be overly concerned with the old knob-and-tube wiring. In some cases it's safer than Romex. The fixtures aren't the real problem, it's the wires going to the switches that you should be more concerned about.

Make sure you document the fact that the fixtures and switches were there to begin with so that the inspectors are aware of it.

Real-estate owners should be held more accountable in this country ... especially when they are renting out their places to people. You have a RIGHT to live in a safe building; you are trusting your property and your life to someone else.

theFez

while it may look old and scary, keep in mind that it has been around for 50+ years without a problem.

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anleja

Well, the landlord came in today to work on a few things before the inspectors come. IT turns out that why the fixtures were not working is becasue some connectors were dirty, so now the majority of the fixtures (totaling 13, I was wrong about saying there were 8 earlier) are in working order. Two or three were not repairable, so they were removed with a plastic cover to hide the hole. He also fixed an additional outlet that was not working.

So, all this was a hassle, but I feel much better about the safety of this place. I wish he would've checked these beforehand, but late is better than never.

I'm still getting insurance once the week begins, however, and keeping a journal of happenings here is a good idea.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to this, everyone.

StephenSa

As a landlord myself, I would prefer my tenants to come to me with any problems or concerns before contacting any other sort of authority so I can address the issue before unneccesary escalation takes place. There could be problems or issues I am unaware of until brought to my attention. I try to keep a business like but friendly relationship with tenants. If a tenant is a little short on rent or is going to be late I find a way to work it out. If they want to mow the lawn or do some home improvement type work/repairs to cover part of the rent I let them do that. I have let tenants pay their deposit in installments if they seemed like responsible people and have decent references. Heck everybody gets in a bind from time time. In return I hope they will work with me if I need to make a non-emergency repair or some other issue. A property owner might not have the funds to make an immediate repair but could reasonably get it done in a two week period or could earmark money for it if they knew it was coming. That being said my properties are all up to code and while I would understand if someone did some checking to ensure their personal safety I would prefer to be asked first. I would never though tell a tenant "The fixtures will be safe if you don't turn them on". That statement would have put up red flags for me too so I can see why you felt the need to check up on things. All in all you may have lost some brownie points with your land-lord but its not the end of the world.