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Old 01-23-2005, 01:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
NotMVH
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How are you really living?

When it comes down to it isn't this whole existance ridiculous? I love it.

All my motivation and ambitions are so self indulgent, petty and absurd. Even if I own the house, drive the car and enjoy the women and carve out my own little capitilistic corner of society it just lacks any purpose. I see life as being what you make of it but what more is their? It makes me laugh.

I know of no better alternative and even though I know my own defined purpose to simply exist and take for myself that which I enjoy, I can't help but feel this wash of emotion of how enjoyable but ridiculous it is.

My existance is now and every day filled with this enjoyable but meaning less task of eating, cleaning, sleeping, growing, sex, communicating.. it's all consumption, production and reflection. It feels great most days and some days it confusing and terrible.

How do you live? How do you feel about your ambitions? Does you existance have purpose to you? Does it need too?
 
Old 01-23-2005, 04:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I know what you mean. Human existence seems rather sordid in general because of all the behavior behind making it "enjoyable". To me, the desire to find some point to it is just a more abstracted version of the drive to consume and produce. In this way, grasping for a point is only as helpful as any other act is in contributing to one's well-being.

Personally, I wish I could break away from this inherent goal-driven mentality, but at a certain point one just becomes like an animal living on instinct alone. So to poorly respond to your question, I think the reflection aspect of humans allows us to reconcile the more silly, visceral behaviors such as eating, sleeping, having sex, and working.
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Old 01-23-2005, 04:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I live one day at a time....I do my best to let other people I encounter know that in their own way they are special and I try really hard to make people feel good, even if its only for a few minutes out of one day....everyone deserves that, to me thats the purpose of my existance and I hope that when Im gone people will remember that about me and carry it on to others.

it doesnt take too much time to just let a person know that for just a minute you were thinking about them and wishing them well.
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Old 01-23-2005, 05:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Troutman: How you gonna live John?
Rambo: Day by day.

Quote:
How do you live? How do you feel about your ambitions? Does you existance have purpose to you? Does it need too?
All I want out of life anymore is to watch movies and eat sandwiches. It's just disappointing that I have to work so long (not hard, I sit at a desk, I just put in a lot of hours) for such simple things. I've done a lot of things in my life I'm not proud of, so I certainly hope there's no meaning to any of this, because if it's a test I've certainly failed.
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Old 01-23-2005, 05:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Location: Ontario, Canada
There is a secret to eternal happiness.

Be happy. Keep being happy.

Everything else just is.

If you want a greater purpose, make one up. You could seek to make humankind better off, either in grand ways or small ways. You could take solice in a belief system. There are a number with fun rituals and large church structures, and others which lack either the rituals or the church structure.

You could live life to advance your core belief system, to advance your DNA, or to advance yourself. You can pick a maxim and live by it.

The universe is a joyously interesting place. It is a playground larger than you can concieve, filled with strange and unusual things and potential experiences. Be. Experience.

Have you ever played a game that has no 'purpose' behind it? Most of them are 'simulation' games. They are very engrossing and interesting. At the very least, the universe is the best simulation game ever!
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Old 01-23-2005, 06:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yakk.. that was inspirational, I must admit. Thanks, man.
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Old 01-23-2005, 07:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Livin 1 day at a time.

I question the point of life everyday, Family tell's me to plan for the future..Man, I don't even know what i'm gonna be doing a week from now, Never mind 10 years.

I'm just a firm believer that when it's your turn to go, There isn't anything you can do to stop it. So i take it one day at a time.

Maybe later on my outlook will change, But for now 1 step at a time.
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Old 01-23-2005, 09:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I think Yakk pretty much said it all. The purpose of life is what you make of it.

Personally, I just like to have a good time. In my opinion there is nothing more important than happiness so I do what I can to be happy... and I think I do a pretty darn good job of it!
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Old 01-23-2005, 11:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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This thread probably better fits with the content of the philosophy forum, but I'll leave that part alone having mentioned it. I live my life in the way that allows me the most comfort and contentment. I'm still trying to work out a few ways to allow me to expand my range of comfort, so to speak, but on the whole, I think the best way to live life is to do so as simply as possible in terms of what you want and what goals you may or may not have. Constantly trying to find that "something else" that will somehow magically improve your life, whether it is within or without the scope of material reality will just lead to disappointment and unhappiness. The key to life is just to enjoy what you are and have at the moment; not that you have to be devoid of goals or "self-improvement", but it doesn't do any good to be unhappy with who you are.

And no, I don't find existence to be ridiculous. There is certainly an underlying levity to it all, but nothing to laugh at or be condescending towards.
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Old 01-24-2005, 01:28 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotMVH
When it comes down to it isn't this whole existance ridiculous? I love it.

All my motivation and ambitions are so self indulgent, petty and absurd. Even if I own the house, drive the car and enjoy the women and carve out my own little capitilistic corner of society it just lacks any purpose. I see life as being what you make of it but what more is their? It makes me laugh.

I know of no better alternative and even though I know my own defined purpose to simply exist and take for myself that which I enjoy, I can't help but feel this wash of emotion of how enjoyable but ridiculous it is.

My existance is now and every day filled with this enjoyable but meaning less task of eating, cleaning, sleeping, growing, sex, communicating.. it's all consumption, production and reflection. It feels great most days and some days it confusing and terrible.

How do you live? How do you feel about your ambitions? Does you existance have purpose to you? Does it need too?
Some time ago I came to very similar conclusions. I found that doing anything is very much pointless, as any activity is nothing more then self-indulging at best.

Right now I want to make the best out of the time I have here - I read book I would never read, I work out, I learn to play new instruments. But the most important change is that I try to live for others. Now, as altruistic as it may sound, this doesn't mean that I'ma rag for everyone to push around. It simply means that whenever I can help someone out, I do.

Sure, in the end it's still self-indulging (come to think of it, any activity short of suicide is), but at least other people get to profit from it along with me.

Last edited by Schwan; 01-24-2005 at 05:48 AM..
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Old 01-24-2005, 05:00 AM   #11 (permalink)
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If I may recommend a book...

"The Wisdom of Forgiveness " by His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

He really has great thoughts on things like this.
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Old 01-24-2005, 11:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I by no means stated that doing anything is pointless. I truely see this existance as being our own. Everything external is perceived in an individual context of our seperate reality. We share that divide, what I do is of great importance to myself and my reality but of little concequence to what exists beyond that.

Everyday I work towards making my life better. I am just existing but by no means am I satisfied by where I am right now, why would I be? It is not what I have choosen for myself so I feel compelled to take action and create the life I want.

I accept that I live in this world I have little power over but I do have the ultimate power over myself: my thoughts, emotions and actions. If I don't like something I change it, if it doesn't feel right I leave it and if it can be done, I do it. I think captialism is great and has become part of how I live, what I can and can't do. Where I can and can't go. Even how I feel and how each day comes together. Freedom to me is capital and I want alot of it, more then that I take all those ambitions and turn them into an organized plan and work towards making it happen. It feels great. I am not complacent but I relize that no matter how much I make, what I own and what I can own, I am still just existing: eating, cooking, cleaning, driving, yelling, working...

Last edited by NotMVH; 01-24-2005 at 11:30 AM..
 
Old 01-24-2005, 12:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I am completely happy with where I am now, I have dreams, ambitions, and more than I could ever ask for. I love how things are going and I'm just having fun.
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Old 01-24-2005, 04:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Location: Troy, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotMVH
I think captialism is great and has become part of how I live, what I can and can't do. Where I can and can't go. Even how I feel and how each day comes together. Freedom to me is capital and I want alot of it, more then that I take all those ambitions and turn them into an organized plan and work towards making it happen. It feels great.
I have to agree with you on that one... I really feel like without ample amounts of $, I'm just locked down as far as my options. Not to mention that my enrollment in grad school is somewhat limiting in the immediate future, but I also have other plans, which again are limiting to my life options, in order to make money. It's like sacrificing my freedom now for freedom later. I want to do and have all sorts of things, and most take money (and lots of it).

Not to say I'm unsatisfied with where I am in life, because I'm not... although (edited - I got into a rant about myself so I put it in my journal where it belongs. Read it if you so care to)

I guess I really just want to get to the point where I have enough money that all the money I need to live how I desire can be made from investing the money I already have, thereby making work unnecessary, and then go on permanant vacation, seeing everything I've always wanted to and partying VIP style everywhere I go.
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Old 01-24-2005, 11:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I will keep my eyes open for that book. Thank you for the recomendation.

I think I see what you are saying. Certainly decisions ones make whether to go to point A or B or choose career C or D or call person X or Z can have consequences but those choices we make, I don't see as limiting. Those choices are ours and the actions we take are more important then those decisions. I remember a discussion with my brother about how I could imagine my time being used in the next few years. He replied that is sounded great but won't you be limiting youself? To what, both I and he did not know. I can not plan for what does not exist in my reality. If you are following through with what you belive to be the right course of action, how can you be wrong and how can you be limiting youself if that is the only conclusion you could make?
 
Old 01-25-2005, 10:09 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Location: Troy, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotMVH
If you are following through with what you belive to be the right course of action, how can you be wrong and how can you be limiting youself if that is the only conclusion you could make?
Simple... Because it's NOT the only conclusion you could make. There are often many right decisions and you have to choose only one. While you can be perfectly happy (or at the very least satisfied) with the one that you willingly chose, it's also reasonable to say "man... I wonder how life would be if I took this other path". I guess you could call that doubt.

Personally, I do not doubt that the path I chose is the right one for me, however I chose a path which yields much less gratification in the short-term that some of my other options, therefore while I am contented with my life, and I definitely like where I see myself being in some 5-odd years, there are other choices where I would have been genuinely happy now, but would not have been as happy later.
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Old 01-26-2005, 05:16 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotMVH
I by no means stated that doing anything is pointless. I truely see this existance as being our own. Everything external is perceived in an individual context of our seperate reality. We share that divide, what I do is of great importance to myself and my reality but of little concequence to what exists beyond that.
I must say that I could not disagree with you more on this point. Certainly the subjectivity of perceptual imput seems to be inevitable, and is at least a probably reality. However, I find your assertion that your actions are of importance only to your own reality, (given that you define reality, more or less in terms of the subjective perceptual imput and emotional and intellectual interpretation thereof) fallacious, and in fact ever so slightly dangerous. Let us for the moment, make the presumption, though we have no objective evidence to accept it, but merely as a matter of practical inevitability, that other human beings exist. If this is the case, and I believe that failing an appeal to some kind of metatheory regarding existence such as Buddhist or Hindu concepts, it is at least a conclusion we are conpelled to adopt in the interests of sanity and practicality, then all other people are in fact effected, even in the most negligible and indirect ways by your actions. The issue of responsibility with regard to complex matters of responsibility and culpability in terms of indirect effects is something which need not concern us here. Let us for the moment consider the simple possibility that there are in fact only two actual entities on the planet, you being one and the person you love most in the world being the other. Surely, you must agree, that your actions do ni fact have an effect upon that other person. If you were for instance to amputate their arm, one presumes that this will effect them, if we are to take the devastating effects this would have on you if the reverse were true as adequate indication of importance of that person's actions in your reality. I put it to you that in fact, our actions have deep and profound importance in the world which exists beyond it. In fact it is a necessity that we believe that our actions, emotions and thoughts are extant beyond our own immediate and direct intercourse with them, or else accept a reality in which our existence is self contained, impotent and in which suicide would be the most self indulgent and meaningful action one could perform.

Quote:
I accept that I live in this world I have little power over but I do have the ultimate power over myself: my thoughts, emotions and actions. If I don't like something I change it, if it doesn't feel right I leave it and if it can be done, I do it. I think captialism is great and has become part of how I live, what I can and can't do. Where I can and can't go. Even how I feel and how each day comes together. Freedom to me is capital and I want alot of it, more then that I take all those ambitions and turn them into an organized plan and work towards making it happen. It feels great. I am not complacent but I relize that no matter how much I make, what I own and what I can own, I am still just existing: eating, cooking, cleaning, driving, yelling, working...
Again, I must disagree slightly. Each individual's lack of power over the world I concur with, if we take George W. Bush to be the man in possession of the largest amount of raw political power, it is still rather small given the amount of events which occur over which he has no control. However, the notion of ultimate individual sovereignty over ones thoughts, emotions and actions I do not quite agree with either. Let us turn aside for the minute, the rather sticky and unpleasant issue of material determinism, (or determinism at large for that matter) and presume that each person does have some measure of power over themselves. Despite this, each of these domains which you have described are conditioned, compelled and in fact controlled by external forces to greater or lesser extents at any given time. Thoughts for instance, are not entirely unfettered, though they are comparatively free owing to the fact that they are less entrammelled by corporeal limits, that is to say, we can think about things which are physically impossible etc. In spite of this, thoughts are still conditioned by external forces: linguistic possibilities, political, economic, social, historical and intellectual schema and simply the vast amounts of manifold imput which compete, or demand attention. One cannot think about abstract concepts if they do not have the necessary linguistic structures to do so. The vast structural components of consciousness which surround each of us influence our modes of thought and conclusion, original thoughts are possible, and necessary in fact, but this does not diminish the fact that each thought we have is within the bounds of these existing mental artifices, or derived directly from them. The unsavoury extreme of this problem is the extent to which totalitarian states directly control and restrict the thoughts of their contituents. Finally, I believe the most obvious phenomenon which restricts the ultimate freedom of thought is the fact that each mind is bombarded with information, sensory imput, ideas, vagary, desires and metacognitive conclusions, each of which enters into a dialogue with the mind and in some ways determines the thoughts we have. If you happen upon a curious advertisement by chance, and find your thoughts turn to it, to what extent were your thoughts on the matter your own, and to what extent were they the result of the chance encounter? Each of us finds their thoughts wander away, keep returning to that we'd rather forget, or simply do not surface when they are needed. Emotions are I think most will agree, somewhat involuntary at times and highly contingent upon imput and context. Actions are subject to physical realities, and as you yourself go on to say, things such as capital can restrict them.

Anyhow, I've digressed a little here, but that's my two cents.
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Old 01-26-2005, 03:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
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You seem to have missinterpreted my explanation. Existence is everything that exists anywhere, not only the material but all the inmaterial ideas.

My existence is constructed from my perception and interaction of time and events in space.
I can not conceive what remains beyond my own existance.
I do not know what I can not imagine.

To asnwer the second paragraph.
You are correct for the most part. I did not choose to exist and I did not build the reality I exist in, I perceive it. I can not control everything I will perceive but I can shape and change how my body responds both mentally and physically to those influences. In doing so I can take control of my existence and influnce my reality. Hundred of examples could be made to both prove and disprove that arguement but it is unnecisary because I belive it to be true.
 
Old 01-26-2005, 04:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotMVH
You seem to have missinterpreted my explanation. Existence is everything that exists anywhere, not only the material but all the inmaterial ideas.

My existence is constructed from my perception and interaction of time and events in space.
I can not conceive what remains beyond my own existance.
I do not know what I can not imagine.
Am I to take it therefore, that you believe it to be true, that you are the only person in existence?
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Old 01-26-2005, 10:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I know that I am the only " I " in existance and that no one does or can experience existance as I do.

I acknowledge that events: people, places, things, tastes, thoughts and ideas exist externally to me but only because I am able to perceive them. If I had no way to perceive an event, it could not exist in my reality, I do agree that potentionaly that event could exist in your construct of reality and may exist of atoms and molocules but as I tried to explain, an example is impossible.
 
Old 01-27-2005, 04:11 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Currently, the only goal I have is to be a better father to my future children than mine was to me.
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Old 01-28-2005, 09:44 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Well having a child has increased my motivation a hundred fold to what it was more than 3 years ago. But I of course am not suggesting you getting someone pregnant, but to find what in life you would think you can make a difference and go for it.
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