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Stompy 10-03-2005 11:09 AM

How much vicodin will cause overdose/bad side effects?
 
No reason for this question, really, but I've been reading up on various drugs and their typical lethal amounts.

One that I can't seem to find anything on is vicodin. Search for vicodin on google and you get a plehtora of online pharmacies and other useless BS of that sort.

I've read various usenet posts about people who used to be addicted that were taking upwards of 50+ pills a day, and I've also read posts from people that more or less say it takes a monster amount for anything negative to happen. Through other various readings, I see that the low numbers (5 and under) seem to be safe (relatively speaking, of course), while anything over that is signs of serious addiction.

So, for example, if someone takes three 750 mg pills in 4 hours, nothing bad will happen (other than the high), but if they took [number I'm looking for], they'd start to see very bad side effects to the point where they should go to the ER.

Thanks in advance.

Jim Kata 10-03-2005 11:24 AM

I think it varies. Weight and tolerance probably come into play as well.

BigBen 10-03-2005 12:15 PM

Anaesthesiologists make a shit load of money for just this reason:

When discussing pain medication, there is a matrix of information that needs to be considered before looking at appropriate (and inappropriate) dosage.

Weight, Sex, current medications, Allergies, food intake, medical conditions, metabolic rate, tolerances...

All of these factors (and more) contribute to that "Magic Number" you are looking for.

A 300 pound football linebacker who broke his knee in freshman year at college and who needs medication will require much more Vicadin than a 115 pound teenage girl who is taking thyroid medication and has never taken anything stronger than aspirin.

To make a long story longer, there is simply no finite number to answer your question.

BTW, I am curious as to why you ask...

Stompy 10-03-2005 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen931
BTW, I am curious as to why you ask...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stompy
No reason for this question, really, but I've been reading up on various drugs and their typical lethal amounts.

:)

There's just different things I wonder sometimes. Another question I've thought about was: To someone that's never done cocaine, would doing a single line be too much for them, or do they need to do smaller amounts?

This question is similar. To your average person, what is considered "too much", or, for example, would taking 5 pills at once be "lethal"?

I mean, I know it "depends" on things like weight, height, tolerance, allergies, yadda yadda... but there are certain givens for your average person. I'm sure all of us can agree that if someone took 2 or 3, they'd be just fine. I'm just trying to narrow down what's dangerous and what isn't.

Just curiosity. No real reason for the question other than to just know. Since I'm having a hard time sorting through the spam-fest that is google, I figured I'd ask here.

heccubusiv 10-03-2005 12:35 PM

Well since Vicodin plan vicodin is 5/500, with the 5mg being the Hydrocodone, and the 500 being Acetaminophen. Pharmacology proves that you should only take 2 grams of Acetaminophen a day(through insurance company) but liver toxicity does not take place until 3g/day. With all toxic levels, that is a LD50, a lethal dose to effect 50% of the population. I have not been able to find a lethal dose of Hydrocodone

Stompy 10-03-2005 01:14 PM

Isn't LD50 measured in mg/kg?

I looked up acetaminophen somewhere and it said (if I recall) 330. Wouldn't that mean you'd have to take 330 mg for every kg of body weight? So for a 100 lb person, 13g would be the LD50.

Unless I'm taking the meaning of it the wrong way. But that's wayyy above 3g.

If you apply the general .7 rule to get it closer to human LD50 (since it's normally in rats), it's still 9g. Which would be... 18 pills in a single dose.

I read that Hydrocodone is 375, but I'm not sure how reliable half of these sites are. That'd be about 11g (using the .7 rule) for a 100 lb person.

But it seems that it would take a LOT of pills at any one given time to even get to that point.

Unless, of course, I'm doin it all wrong (again, why I asked, just to kinda double check).

raveneye 10-03-2005 02:23 PM

I don't know what the LD50 is for vicodin, but I know that it doesn't take much to make you go deaf. And there's not cure for the hearing loss except a cochlear implant.

zfleebin 10-03-2005 08:24 PM

I would not suggest trying this but I have taken 6 hydrocodone/apap
pills at once on numerous occasions. The side effects of which included itchiness, upset stomach (not really upset but a lot like that feeling you get when you are starting to roll), and severely impaired thinking. The last time I did this I was probably between 145-160 Lbs and not very muscular. As for snorting the pill, I wouldnt do it because you dont need to. I mean if you really want it to kick in quick smash it up and put it on your tongue. It tastes just as nasty as the drippage but you can wash it down and you dont feel like a fiend. Again I would not sugest this behavior in any way because it can lead to a lot of bad stuff, like strange bruises and even stranger piercings.

skinnymofo 10-04-2005 07:31 AM

for vic's its all about the aspirin in them. an unhealthy amount for your liver is 4000mg (a one time thing seperated will be ok) but if you do it for days at a time is pretty damn bad. start taking more and your eyes could bleed do to it.
generally speaking, a light person (100~130lb) could take two 5/500's and get a decent buzz with zero opiate tolerance. your could take up to 8 safely giving you 40mg/4000mg. for a single day or maybe two. but really, once you get to that point why take 8 pills when you take just go up to the next strongest pill and have to take less.
as for snorting those, theres so much binder and aspirin, i would not recommend it at all. if you have enough vic's or such you can do an extraction with just plain ol water to get rid of the apap and keep the hydro.

For the coke question, short answer, yes you can do more than one line on a first time.
long answer, depends on the purity, i wouldnt recommend doing more than a single line or bump even of pure cocaine. but most stuff as low dealer level is cut to shit allowing you to take more.
ive only done coke once, only time i ever snorted anything ever, and did 4 lines.
also, if you want more technical answers to what you asked, go to www.erowid.com
lots of druggy styled info :)

VitaminH 10-04-2005 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heccubusiv
Well since Vicodin plan vicodin is 5/500, with the 5mg being the Hydrocodone, and the 500 being Acetaminophen. Pharmacology proves that you should only take 2 grams of Acetaminophen a day(through insurance company) but liver toxicity does not take place until 3g/day. With all toxic levels, that is a LD50, a lethal dose to effect 50% of the population. I have not been able to find a lethal dose of Hydrocodone


The actual max for acetaminophin recommended is 4 g daily. Toxicity doesn't begin usually until 6 g. I think you cut your numbers in half there. ;)

Hydrocodone is difficult to determine an exact leathal dose, because as already defined it varies widely amongst individuals. What essentially happens is you take to large of a dose and it slows your breathing to much, and you die. That's generally the cause of death from opiate overdose in these meds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinnymofo
for vic's its all about the aspirin in them. an unhealthy amount for your liver is 4000mg (a one time thing seperated will be ok) but if you do it for days at a time is pretty damn bad. start taking more and your eyes could bleed do to it.

There's no aspirin in vicodin. I think you're confusing it with acetaminophin, which is tylenol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by raveneye
I don't know what the LD50 is for vicodin, but I know that it doesn't take much to make you go deaf. And there's not cure for the hearing loss except a cochlear implant.

Hearing loss is pretty rare, and is generally only associated with abusing the drug and overdosing.


To better answer the origional question, the "average" joe who is opiate naive it's going to usually take a lower dose to be lethal as opposed to someone who has taken it before. You could hypothetically take a 250 lb dude who's never had opiates before and kill him with a dose that a 90 lb lady needs simply to relieve pain if she's a chronic user for some pain condition or other. This is just with the opiates.

What tends to "get" you is the acetaminophin toxicity on your liver. If you consistantly take toxic doses of that (especially combined with alcohol) you're going to destroy your liver, and you can end up dying a rather long uncomfortable death, not the falling asleep and stopping breathing peaefully than an opiate OD would do.

skinnymofo 10-05-2005 08:04 AM

Quote:

There's no aspirin in vicodin. I think you're confusing it with acetaminophin, which is tylenol.
i used it to mean the same thing, too tired to try and spell it correctly since most dont recognize a difference anyway when you talk between the two.
but you busted me :|

pan6467 10-05-2005 11:22 AM

Hydrocodone (Codeine), Oxycodone (OxyContin) and Heroin are opioid derivitives (Of differing strengths but all opioids pretty much react the same in the body) and as such there is a built tolerence to them and an extreme physical addiction. Meaning as you take them the more you need.

So if I take 1 Vicidon every 4 hours, eventually it will no longer mask the pain and I either move to a stronger dosage or I take more.

Eventually, you get to the limit in dosages and just take more and more pills, not just to mask the pain but to maintain "normal". Most people addicted to heavy pain medications are not looking to get high, but to alleviate the pain.

As your tolerence builds you can take un-Godly amounts of these. However, eventually, you experience a tolerence break and all of a sudden 1 could kill you.

It's like a Heroin addict (since they are all opioids this is a great example), he/she can do say 20 bags a day, but all of a sudden one day they shoot up a small amount and go into Cardiac arrest.

Is this an overdose?

Opioids in and of themselves you truly cannot OD on, however, once you achieve tolerence break you're dead.

But tolerence break is also very Russian Roulette, because you can achieve it today and OD on one shot or pill, and be revived and go back out and get back to 20 bags and not have any problems. (This is also why some Heroin addicts will carry a coke syringe with them, so if they OD they shoot the coke and it pumps them back up.)

Now tolerence break for an Alcoholic is different in that it takes years and one drink won't kill you, you have just fucked up your liver enough so that when you drink you don't need to drink as much to get drunk. That's why alcoholics may die of poisoning because they are used to drinking a 1/5th a day and all of a sudden they only needed a few shots but they drink the whole bottle anyway. Tolerence break for an alcoholic though is permenant..... once you break you will require less and less to get drunk... and that is because the liver is shot.

So basically if you are desiring to overdose and kill yourself on an opioid alone it is near impossible, the amounts you would have to take would be almost unprescribable.

So in order to commit suicide from opioid poisoning, you need to follow it with alcohol, or another CNS depressant.

For Vicidons, Percocets, Percodans, Tylenol 3's, etc. what is with them (Acetaminaphen, Asprin, Ibuprofen, etc) has more of a chance to kill you before they actually do.

That's why almost 95% of cases you hear the person OD'd on Opioid pain pills there was alcohol or other drugs involved.

VitaminH 10-05-2005 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinnymofo
i used it to mean the same thing, too tired to try and spell it correctly since most dont recognize a difference anyway when you talk between the two.
but you busted me :|


Heh, no worries I assumed most people wouldn't notice that. But I'm a bit more experienced in the area...


/pharmacist

Glory's Sun 10-06-2005 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinnymofo
For the coke question, short answer, yes you can do more than one line on a first time.
long answer, depends on the purity, i wouldnt recommend doing more than a single line or bump even of pure cocaine. but most stuff as low dealer level is cut to shit allowing you to take more.
ive only done coke once, only time i ever snorted anything ever, and did 4 lines.
also, if you want more technical answers to what you asked, go to www.erowid.com
lots of druggy styled info :)


Like you said it's all dependant on the purity of cocaine. I would reccommend doing a rail as your first line. Then you get high as fuck and you realize how high you are. Of the people I've had the mispleasure of seeing OD or whatever.. they would always just bump and/or take little lines. They didn't realize just how fucked up they were.

As far as snorting the pills.. I wouldn't snort any pill evar. The burn and dryness would be insane. Just crush it and swallow it. You can drink something like oh. .. I dunno a shot of vodka after to get rid of the taste. The crushed pill should hit you harder and faster because iirc that allows it to enter the blood stream quickly and doesn't need to wait for the time release to break down. Most people that do oxy lick the pill then wipe it on their shirt to remove the time release coating. ... or you could just break the pill in half and swallow it..allowing a bit longer time for it to hit..but faster than just swallowing as is.

Nimetic 10-09-2005 04:56 AM

I'm in Aust - your acetaminophen is our "paracetamol", if I'm not mistaken.

Unlike asprin, paracetamol is supposed to be unusually dangerous if you exceed the recommended dosage. This has been pointed out indirectly some some of the previous posters. I've also seen the effects of overdose. It's not considered a nice way to go.

I'd strongly suggest that you use the recommended dose or less. If it's not working - get something else from the doc.

5757 10-10-2005 12:08 PM

...
 
Well lets see. I am supposed to take 1-2 500mg pills up to 3 times a day, of course if needed. I have taken up to 9 a day. I did just fine. Yeah, take the recommended dosage, yada yada. These pills suck in my opinion.
If you are in need of some pain pills that will actually take away the pain, next time you are in with the doc ask for Lortab. Works like a charm. Do Not overdose on Lortab though.

BTW - I am 23 and weigh 118. If I can handle up to 9 a day - do the math. I felt no bad side effects. Once again : I do not recommend this anyway. ;)

Nimetic 10-11-2005 07:10 AM

Your choice. The way I see it, it's a different thing to take an informed choice for yourself than it is to suggest it to another.

I'd have to get up to check side effects but they relate to liver function I believe... anyways 9*500mg seems okayish. The labelled max dose of paracetamol here is 8*500mg I think.

I also know where your heading with bodyweight, but this is a tricky one. My background is in physics/math/eng/IT - so I tend to argue that the world is not always as simple as it might appear. We can only truly tell be testing.

For example... if both me and a girlfriend take four tablets of something... and I weigh twice as much as her (I'm 100kg currently so it's possible) - blood concentration over time will be different, perhaps based on lean body mass, speed of absorbtion, whether the substance is fat soluble or not etc etc.

In many cases though... it'll all go out the same way. And also... I think some of our organs are not that much different in size. So yeah. I'd not always be so confident that I can take twice as much as a girl. I sure know that I can drink more, but other things... who knows.

noahfor 10-13-2005 09:02 PM

There is a very simple method to extract the hydrocodone from acetaminophen if you are worried about the toxicity of the acetaminophen and are planning on taking alot of vicodin for some reason, but I have heard it is illegal to do. Also, too much acetaminophen at one time can give you an ulcer I think, or really irritate your stomach, which is not pleasant.

Stompy 10-19-2005 08:18 AM

Thanks for the info.

Haha, I'm not planning on taking a lot.. like I said, just curious on the actual toxicity of it.

Glory's Sun 10-19-2005 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5757
Well lets see. I am supposed to take 1-2 500mg pills up to 3 times a day, of course if needed. I have taken up to 9 a day. I did just fine. Yeah, take the recommended dosage, yada yada. These pills suck in my opinion.
If you are in need of some pain pills that will actually take away the pain, next time you are in with the doc ask for Lortab. Works like a charm. Do Not overdose on Lortab though.

BTW - I am 23 and weigh 118. If I can handle up to 9 a day - do the math. I felt no bad side effects. Once again : I do not recommend this anyway. ;)



I'll take vicodin over Loritab any day. Loritabs are weak IMO. A better recommendation would be oxy.. or if you can get 30mg Hydrocodone's then those work nicely also.

SaltPork 10-20-2005 08:05 PM

3 750mg?? that'll make you sick feeling for about an hour if you're not already on them for some reason. If you don't have a strong constitution you will hurl. After that, the high is pretty good, but not worth the hangover.

ollie d 10-22-2005 05:06 PM

The reason I found this site was because I have a sister who is very addicted to both hydrocodone and beer.Not to mention white crosses also.This is ruining her life and I needed ammunition to help her see what she could be doing to her body.Some doctors,she claims,told her this was safe to do.She has been too afraid to look these things up herself and she doesn't know how to stop or see any reason to do so.Thanks to you guys for at least having a few scary facts I can print and show her. She just doesn't believe this effects her even though she has developed nervous habits to the extint of pulling out her hair one hair at a time until she keeps a bloody scab on the crown of her head and now only has half an eyebrow over one eye.I have been at wits end your quotes may help save her life and I thank you!

VitaminH 10-27-2005 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr
I'll take vicodin over Loritab any day. Loritabs are weak IMO. A better recommendation would be oxy.. or if you can get 30mg Hydrocodone's then those work nicely also.


:)

Not to nitpick, but if you got both regular strength vicodin and regular strength lortab, you got the exact same thing. They both contain 5 mg hydrocodone and 500mg acetaminophen. The only difference as the strengths go up (7.5, 10 mg hydrocodone) is the Lortab's acetaminophen strength goes up as well at 750 mg, whereas Vicodin stays at 500 I believe.

If you took both regular Vicodin and Lortab 5, you are a perfect example of the placebo effect. Neat huh?

gonadman 11-04-2005 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ollie d
...She just doesn't believe this effects her even though she has developed nervous habits to the extint of pulling out her hair one hair at a time until she keeps a bloody scab on the crown of her head and now only has half an eyebrow over one eye.I have been at wits end your quotes may help save her life and I thank you!

Ollie, the condition is called trichotillomania and can be treated with counselling or medication- aside from the obvious help she needs for her addiction.

Some good info here: http://psychcentral.com/library/hair_pulling.htm

Good luck and don't give up


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