Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Interests > Tilted Motors


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-02-2005, 12:27 AM   #1 (permalink)
gal
Insane
 
gal's Avatar
 
Diesel in a gasoline engine

A friend of mine from New Zeland rented a car here in Norway, and unfamiliar with the different gasoline ratings, she asked the gas station guy what pump to use. Now, these guys are usually not the brightest crayons in the box, so my friend ended up filling the tank with diesel using a funnel the guy gave her. Of course the car stopped after 10 meters.

The other day I ran into an argument as I told this story to some friends. They all agreed that it was a good thing that she didn't rent a diesel and then filled up with gasoline, cause the engine would blow for sure. I'm not too sure about this, cause I know that diesel engines are built for higher compression than a gasoline engine. My guess is that the gasoline (95 octane is the norm here) would ignite too early. The engine won't run since the pistons would probably not be able to pass the top due to the early combustion. Am I right?
gal is offline  
Old 08-02-2005, 01:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
Psycho
 
aKula's Avatar
 
I'm guessing that nothing would happen because the is no spark in the diesel engine pistons, so the gasoline would just sit there.
Then again I have no real idea about cars so I am now waiting to be corrected.
aKula is offline  
Old 08-02-2005, 03:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
salmon?
 
Location: Outside Providence
I'm not entirely sure exactly what would happen, but I do know that any engine not running on the fuel it was designed for will not perform at it speak. That's not to say it won't run, as I have seen an old ford truck run on a 50-50 mix of diesel-gasoline, but it ran very roughly. The gasoline woulkdmost likely combust because of the heat caused by the massive amount of compression in a diesel engine. I know this is way off topic, but when you say normal, are there 3 diferent grades like there are here or is there only 95? And if there are more than 1, is 95 the highest octane available? I believe here the grades are usually 87, 90, 93.
__________________
"Lick my frozen metal ass!"
theguyondacouch is offline  
Old 08-02-2005, 03:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
Crazy
 
I know for sure that you MUST NOT start the engine once you accidentally filled gasoline in a diesel engine. The tank has to be pumped empty and the engine cleaned.
At least here, in Europe, I think the diesel pistons are bigger so they donīt fit in a gasoline tank.
But maybe I am mixing this up, itīs bad either way.
Btw, I saw a gas station clerk telling a lady, who accidentally put gas in a diesel that "thatīs not that bad..." Well, if you donīt care about a $2000 bill, itīs not bad.
__________________
Knowing is not enough, we must apply.
Willing is not enough, we must do.
Dyze is offline  
Old 08-02-2005, 04:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
gal
Insane
 
gal's Avatar
 
The grades we have are unleaded 95, 97 and 98 octane. The latter contains "lead replacements" for older engines designed for leaded gasoline. High performance cars often use 97.

The nozzle for diesel is wider, hence the use of a funnel
gal is offline  
Old 08-02-2005, 05:12 AM   #6 (permalink)
Insane
 
as far as I understand it, and I know a guy who did it - complete crack-monkey but that's a different story - Apparently you're ok in most newer vehicles even if you do start the car with Diesel. It'll die almost immediately, and be expensive to fix, but you won't need a new car.
__________________
roadrazer - 300kgs, 300hp = pure fun.
Rippley is offline  
Old 08-02-2005, 05:23 AM   #7 (permalink)
Insane
 
Ok, I got curious, and did a little looking.

Here: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mdieselvsgas.html

Below is an excerpt of the article:
"What happens when you use gasoline in a diesel engine? Either something expensive or something very expensive. Since gasoline is designed to be resistant to self-ignition, gasoline in a diesel engine either won't ignite or will ignite at the wrong time. Some diesel engines run leaner than gasoline engines (meaning that the air-fuel mix has a higher proportion of air than a gasoline engine). That increases the chances that the gasoline won't ignite and that unburnt fuel will be sent into the hot exhaust system--where, ironically, it could ignite, leading to possible exhaust damage. Even if you avoid that disaster, you can expect to pay $500 to drain the fuel tank, clean out the fuel lines, and refill the tank with diesel.

Some types of diesel engine use the diesel fuel as a lubricant for the fuel pump (remember, it's a fuel oil). It's said that running gasoline through such a pump could lead to serious damage or failure, turning a $500 repair into a $750-$1,250 one.

Trying to use diesel fuel in a gasoline engine also has unpleasant consequences, but generally not as dire in terms of damage to the fuel system. Depending on the proportion of diesel fuel relative to gas in the tank, a gasoline engine will either run poorly or stop altogether, necessitating another $500 trip to the repair shop for draining and flushing. A couple of old grease monkeys at the shop I used to work at claimed that their "super high-compression" gasoline engines of the late 1960s could easily switch between gasoline and diesel fuel with no problems, but I tend to think they spent too much time inhaling fumes from the carburetor cleaning tank."
__________________
roadrazer - 300kgs, 300hp = pure fun.
Rippley is offline  
Old 08-02-2005, 05:31 AM   #8 (permalink)
Comedian
 
BigBen's Avatar
 
Location: Use the search button
Ah, a wonderful thread to return to!

I missed you guys.

As a member of the military, we have thousands of people that are not "The Brightest crayons in the box", and having said that, when you are really tired and the only thing to distinguish the fuel types is a coloured band on the Jerry Can, you can mix up fuel types. It is a common mistake.

Diesel in a Gas engine: Yes, it is unfortunate, as your filters and spark plugs and everything else will be horribly gummed up. The mechanic chastizes you quite soundly, you feel shame and your co-workers never let you forget.

"Hey Ben, remember that time you put diesel in the Commander's Jeep and he had to walk for 10k? That was funny as hell."

Gas in a diesel engine: There is a big problem here. Yes, the above poster is right when they say that there is no spark and diesel engines run on compression. Gas engines run on about 10-12:1 compression, and diesel starts combusting at about 30:1. (Expert mechanics help me out on the numbers here please)
So when the piston starts to compress on the up-stroke, the damned gas starts to combust before it (the piston) reaches the proper height. Then you start to bend really important things like valves, cams, rocker arms, and the piston rods themselves. You have also introduced a fuel with nearly zero lubrication properties (relative to diesel, anyway) and will also burn the piston rings. Did I mention this is happening at about 3 times the fuels normal compression environment? Shit starts to explode, and it is nasty.

While the diesel engine is burning the last bit of natural fuel in its fuel lines and introducing the devil's blend you have unfortunately poured in the tank, there is about 3 seconds when the engine starts to rev at a very high rate and it sounds really cool like a race car and nothing at all like the normal "dang-bang-dang" of our friend diesel. This is the amount of time you have to realize your mistake without frying the WHOLE ENGINE!

This is where you have a really mad mechanic, and the story is not so funny.

"Ben, remember the time when you blew up the Commander's truck, and he made you give him a piggy-back ride until a replacement arrived?"

__________________
3.141592654
Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.
BigBen is offline  
Old 08-02-2005, 06:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
Adequate
 
cyrnel's Avatar
 
Location: In my angry-dome.
I think 8.5-10:1 would be more realistic for modern gasoline compression ratios, and 15-16:1 for diesel. Otherwise sounds good. Results would be vehicle dependent. I've heard of people using gas in a diesel car, driving a while before realizing the problem, cutting back to diesel and getting many miles without unexpected problems. Can't do it much good though, and it's more common to hear some piece of the engine failed. The early GM gas-to-diesel setups would have to be very angry since they were just repurposed gas engines.

Adding a little gas to diesel isn't uncommon for truckers, say 5% in winter to help starts and prevent gelling.
__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195
cyrnel is offline  
Old 08-02-2005, 11:37 AM   #10 (permalink)
gal
Insane
 
gal's Avatar
 
Good stuff Thanks, guys.
gal is offline  
Old 08-03-2005, 07:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Simply put, gas is explosive and diesel is not.
Oddly enough, high quality gas, is rated on how unlikely it is to burn (er, explode)...
High quality diesel, on the other hand, is more likely to burn.
A gas engine wouldn't run on diesel unless there's enough gasoline to ignite the mixture...in which case, there'd be a lot of smoke, and would probably damage O2 sensors and maybe catalytic converters. If the mix was less than 15% diesel, I don't think it would cause any harm.
Gas in a diesel, probably would ignite, er explode. Probably do bad stuff...
And yes, modern diesel engines would have issues. The pumps and injectors are under as much as 65,000psi, even the diesel needs added lubricants to keep the parts functioning well.
Turbotom is offline  
Old 08-09-2005, 12:18 AM   #12 (permalink)
Psycho
 
I worked on a lot of GM diesel trucks at my old job...specifically light duty (1/2 ton to 1-ton pickups) with the 6.2L or 6.5L turbo diesel V8s...the newer Isuzu "Duramax" engines are a nightmare but don't get me started on those.

There have been a couple trucks in for a fuel system drain/flush due to people putting gas in diesels....and no, the engines didn't rev uncontrollably.....and the bill wasn't $500 either because it only pays typically 2-3.5 hours labor to do that at $90/hr (Canadian) and there aren't any expensive parts involved. Maybe it would cost more in a diesel car like a VW or whatever, I don't know because I've never done them and I don't know what's involved.

We did have one, that the oil lines were leaking oil into the incoming intake air going through the turbo, causing it to rev to 7,000+rpm...take out the key and you're holding it in your hand...still does it and runs exclusively on its own oil. Another time, I saw a guy in a cube van with a 6.5L drive it in without the oil pan on it (and therefore no oil) because the steering was too hard to turn without it running. Those GM 6.5s are tough as hell and it's too bad they replaced them with the dumbax.
big_bubba is offline  
 

Tags
diesel, engine, gasoline

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:38 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360