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Old 06-15-2003, 04:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Location: U of MD
bob rock on "st. anger's" (un)production

from mtv.com

No other contemporary chart-topping rock album sounds remotely like Metallica's St. Anger. Never mind the whirlwind tempos, multiple rhythm changes and seven-minute songs. What's really unusual are the lo-fi tones and unconventional constructions.

The drums don't crack, they clang, and cymbals cut out abruptly. There are no guitar solos. Once in a while a guitar lick lags behind the beat, and frontman James Hetfield's vocals occasionally veer off key.

Stranger still, that's exactly the way Metallica and producer Bob Rock wanted it to sound.

"I wanted to do something to shake up radio and the way everything else sounds," said Rock, who helped write the music and lyrics and played basslines on the album. "To me, this album sounds like four guys in a garage getting together and writing rock songs, and that's just how we wanted it to sound."

The genesis of Metallica's raw new sound had as much to do with art as with anger. Shortly after Metallica hired Rock —, who had worked on their last three studio records, including the pristine, polished Metallica (a.k.a. "the black album") — the producer told drummer Lars Ulrich that he was tired of clean, by-the-book production. He proposed recording in a way that made a statement like some of Ulrich's favorite artists, including Dutch primitivism painter Karel Appel, the Danish experimentalists CoBrA and various groundbreaking jazz musicians. From word one, Lars was on board.

Metallica achieved the primitive sound and schizophrenic vibe of St. Anger by combining old recording technology with cutting-edge editing software. While Rock had previously rigged Lars' kit with multiple modern microphones and dampened the bass drum with pillows, spending as much as a week perfecting a snare sound, this time Rock spent five minutes setting up the drums and recorded the rest of the band with a combination of cheap PA mics and vintage microphones.

With the bare-bones recording equipment in place, Metallica started coming up with riffs together and rocked them out like a group of friends hooking up just to jam. Once they'd concocted rhythms they liked, they'd combine them and record long jam sessions. Lyrics were written by the entire band moments before a song was recorded, and Hetfield's vocals were recorded in one or two takes to capture the immediacy of the moment, glitches and all.

"There was really no time to get amazing performances out of James," Rock said. "We liked the raw performances. And we didn't do what everyone does and what I've been guilty of for a long time, which is tuning vocals. We just did it, boom, and that was it."

After the basic recordings were done, Metallica tried to add guitar solos. Kirk Hammett recorded a bunch of leads ranging from slow and evocative to lightning-fast and aggressive, but Rock and the band ultimately decided to leave them all out.

"We made a promise to ourselves that we'd only keep stuff that had integrity," Rock said. "We didn't want to make a theatrical statement by adding overdubs. If we added something and it helped the mood or what we were trying to convey, that stayed. But if it distracted from that ... then we killed it. Every time we tried to do a solo, either it dated it slightly or took away from what we were trying to accomplish in some other way. I think we wanted all the aggression to come from the band rather than one player."

Once the band packed up its gear, it was time to unpack the computers. They used the computer program ProTools to reconstruct the songs in sometimes drastically different ways.

"A lot of the songs were done in William Burroughs cut-and-paste fashion," said Rock, referring to a style in which a piece of writing is cut into pieces and reassembled at random. "There are movements in moviemaking and in music where you take technology as an art and you actually abuse it. Some people use ProTools to trick and fool the listener, but we used it more as a creative tool to do something interesting and stretch boundaries.

"Technically, you'll hear cymbals go away and you'll hear bad edits. We wanted to disregard what everybody assumes records should be and throw out all the rules. I've spent 25 years learning how to do it the so-called right way. I didn't want to do that anymore."
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Old 06-15-2003, 11:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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They should have experimented with this some time ago, not on their almost "comeback" album.

Either, they are just backtracking here and going "Uh.. YEAH thats right its MEANT to sound that bad" OR they are just trying to cash in on the current garage/retro rock thing.

It still sucks either way.
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Old 06-16-2003, 05:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I still think the album has merit. It grows on me more and more with each repeated listen.
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Old 06-16-2003, 06:49 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I was pretty upset with this purchase (stress, PURCHASE). I only heard one song that went into my 'i like it column'. Waaaaay too many went into my 'Meh' and 'Ugh, next' columns.

*sigh*
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Old 06-16-2003, 08:43 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sparhawk
I was pretty upset with this purchase (stress, PURCHASE). I only heard one song that went into my 'i like it column'. Waaaaay too many went into my 'Meh' and 'Ugh, next' columns.

*sigh*
If you don't like it, I probably can't convince you otherwise, but i'm curious how many times you've listened to it? Have you watched the rehearsal DVD?

I ask because I was super disappointed when I bought this too, but now I am really getting into it and starting to enjoy it. Sure, it's not like any older Metallica, but that's fine. If I wanted to hear "Master of Puppets" I would go play "Master of Puppets"
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Old 06-16-2003, 04:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I blame Bob Rock for their downfall.

Granted, the Black album had some interesting moments and if it weren't from Metallica, I would have liked it.

However, I have listened to the new one a number of times and I still can't get into it. I find I am more open minded now about music than I was when black came out, but I just can't quite stomach it.

It seems unfinished, and not in the cool, raw, way I have heard a number of bands pull off in recent years.

While they have gone back to their roots in many songs with many, many phrases joined together, many of them just don't work together.

Lars' drumming has, however, returned. I am pleased with that.

What the fuck is this no guitar solo bs? I mean, this is Metallica... not Blink. Kirk is an amazingly fast player. He has been playing for decades. Bah.

I wanted to do something to shake up radio and the way everything else sounds. Sorry Bob. It didn't happen. it thrashes and the drums are smokin', but it's just the same ol' shit played faster.

Technically, you'll hear cymbals go away and you'll hear bad edits. We wanted to disregard what everybody assumes records should be and throw out all the rules. I've spent 25 years learning how to do it the so-called right way. I didn't want to do that anymore. You are recording Metallica, not White Stripes. While I am quite happy with most of Lars' sound, the kick is a little lacking. The guitars are muddy. When playing with that speed, you need more definition. As a bass player, I was disappointed in how transparent it was. It's like Justice all over again.

I don't know... I am a bit disappointed. I wasn't expecting old Metallica, but I was expecting something of Metallica's calibre.

Sorry for jumping around. I just had to rant.
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Last edited by tinfoil; 06-16-2003 at 04:58 PM..
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Old 06-16-2003, 05:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Derwood
If I wanted to hear "Master of Puppets" I would go play "Master of Puppets"
That's the way I feel about it. It's a different album, and I like the sound of it.
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Old 06-16-2003, 05:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Well, even if the album doesn't neccesarily have to measure up to the classics, it still makes Re-Load sound like Master Of Puppets.

The video for St. Anger is also probably the worst Metallica video i've ever seen.

Enter Sandman, the Memory Remains. Those were great.

Even I Disappear, which was a shitty song, had a pretty god vid.

And james needs to lose the ski cap. I mean, this isn't a skate punk video!

Oh well, at least there's no more Jason Newsted.
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Old 06-16-2003, 05:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ha! I agree, Newstead was a fuck. In his defense, however, Cliff is a tough act to follow.
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Old 06-16-2003, 07:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
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How about you guys answer this...if St. Anger wasn't metallica. We'll say it was some new band that you have never heard of, would you still be praising the CD?

The Black album was metallica.
Master of Puppets was metallica.
St. Anger is not metallica.
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Old 06-16-2003, 09:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
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When i first bought this album(first one in line opening day) i was expecting soooo much more than what i got. However, I have listened to it more and more and it is really starting to grow on me.

To answer your question...If this album was released by anyone other than Metallica it would be at the bottom of my cd pile. But since I am a die hard Metallica fan i find myself listening to it even though i dont find it particularly great.

I agree with the statement about Kirk. He is a damn good player(some will argue but i think he's good) and i was really looking forward to learning some new solos, but there are none. So i ask, why is Kirk in the band? Everything on this album could have been done with only three members.

That enough of my ranting. The album is good but is by far one of their worst albums(ranking only higher than ReLoad in my book)
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Old 06-17-2003, 01:05 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The new album sucks. Lars's drums sound like a cowbell half the time and there are no solos. There, it's done. Everyone go back to sleep.
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Old 06-17-2003, 03:07 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatherThanWords
How about you guys answer this...if St. Anger wasn't metallica. We'll say it was some new band that you have never heard of, would you still be praising the CD?

The Black album was metallica.
Master of Puppets was metallica.
St. Anger is not metallica.
I wouldn't have bought it if it were the new album.
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Old 06-17-2003, 05:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
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metallica.... uuuggghhh
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Old 06-18-2003, 08:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Heh, that's pretty funny. "We wanted to break all the rules of how 'traditional' recordings are made. So we put all the mikes in the control room and had James do all his vocals out in the parking lot. Then we replaced Lars' drumsticks with strands of overcooked spaghetti noodles, which gave the snare that 'wet slap' sound. For the bass, I just spanked my hand across the strings. It didn't matter, because I ended up turning the track all the way down in the mix anyhow. We recorded a lot of guitar solos, but we decided to leave them off because Lars and James are trying to get Kirk to quit, too. Also, guitar solos just stink of 'musicianship' and 'skill' and we were really trying to avoid that this time around. I thought briefly that to get a 'garage rock' sound I might actually have the band, you know, JAM in a real GARAGE, but then I wouldn't get to use all this fancy editing equipment I just bought. All in all, I think we've delivered an album that sounds like complete and utter ass, which is of course exactly what we were trying to do. Really." sk
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Old 06-18-2003, 05:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I like it.

edit - now now...
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Last edited by juanvaldes; 06-25-2003 at 12:28 AM..
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Old 06-18-2003, 06:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: P.R. Mass.
Now I see why Lars hated Napster so much. More people would have an opportunity to demo an album before purchasing and may opt to not partake in Metallica v.4. Perhaps he had a premonition that the new album sould like what my ears have been exposed to for the last 2 days.

One thing for sure, it will flush out the die-hard fans from the mainstreamers (like me.)

Not so good Al.
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Old 06-19-2003, 09:47 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Dear god I hate Bob Rock now. I'm a pretty hardcore metallica fan and was really excited to hear the new album, and i finally heard itand i dont think ive ever been as disapointed. Yeah lets throw away rules of recording that have been refined to make music sound good and just sound like shit. I expected a lot better i remember listen and thinking to myself wtf? did he just play off beat? no not metallica my ears must be tricking me
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Old 06-19-2003, 10:34 AM   #19 (permalink)
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piss on that turd... heh.
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Old 06-19-2003, 12:07 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Location: Liverpool, UK
bunch of whiners. i suppose you could do better? how many albums have you sold?
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Old 06-20-2003, 05:31 AM   #21 (permalink)
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If anyone has ever stood next to a drumset when someone was playing it, you would know that this is what drums sound like. Most albums in existence don't have real sounding drums. SO you say they sound like shit, I say they sound like drums.
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Old 06-21-2003, 08:26 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Derwood
If anyone has ever stood next to a drumset when someone was playing it, you would know that this is what drums sound like. Most albums in existence don't have real sounding drums. SO you say they sound like shit, I say they sound like drums.
exactly. i used to be a drummer, and a sound engineer. getting the sound most people know as a "normal drum sound" takes a lot of work, and a lot of practice. you can't just walk in there and make them sound great. even placing the microphones is an art. i'd love to hear the "lars' kit sounds like shit" group, getting a better sound.
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Old 06-21-2003, 05:36 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Location: Chicago
hmm my thoughts...

1) if you are a 'die hard tallica fan', join MetClub, we had all the info before everyone else
2) Check the main website, they had some stuff as well
3) READ
4) This 'no solos, i hate this album' shit as well as 'why do they have kirk anymore' crap has got to stop. THINK, DO THEY PLAY ALL NEW SHIT ON TOUR, NOW GO FEEL LIKE A DUMBASS.
5) Production, whenever I play the CD i think its quality is much better than that of most of the other CDs i have.
6) If you have a ripped version, best ask yourself about its quality, the CD contains ONE FILE that you play, you cannot see the seperate tracks, you have to burn using a program that can play, hence you lose the superiority of recording in pure digital format at 20000kbps recording straight to pro tools.
7) if you don't know what pro tools is, shut the fuck up and stop acting like you know how to produce for a band
8) If Metallica didn't want to already go in the direction Bob Rock had in mind, do you think they would EVER fucking go there? Stop blaming him, he is a damn good man. He kept them TOGETHER.
9) in regards to the above point, when did Metallica EVER give a fuck about anything they didn't want?
10) if you don't like it, thats up to you, stop coming in here with your shitty ass points that everyone who DID THEIR HOMEWORK can rip through in a single posting.
11) As stated above, no, its not another MoP or AJFA, when has ANY Metallica album been like the next....yeah, thats right, stfu.
12) LETS HEAR A HELL YEAH FOR ALL THE 'TALLICA FANS ON TFP!

HEEELLLLLLL YEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH
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Old 06-22-2003, 06:04 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Atomic Pinkie
hmm my thoughts...
A-FUCKING-MEN!
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Old 06-22-2003, 08:04 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Location: U of MD
bob rock's comments confirmed exactly what i suspected about the new album - it's more an "artistic" statement from metallica (and bob) than an album of songs, in the common sense. instruments mic'ed half-assedly (albiet admittedly), song structures invented via cut-and-paste in pro-tools, lyrics written off the cuff by a group... none of these techniques produce a musically cohesive album/song. it's fine that they took this route, but i find it to be pretentious - just like i find modern art, later radiohead, etc to be pretentious.

all those arguing about how difficult it is to mic a drum kit or amp, or that we listeners should not be able to criticize because we haven't sold millions of records are missing the point. any band with the slightest recording experience (and half of metallica's technical proficiency) could make a much better sounding album. metallica made a deliberate choice to give the album a lo-fi and sloppy sound with disjointed song structures. i personally don't like it - and that decision is based on experience playing in a band, recording, and being a careful and critical music listener. idol worship of metallica, their previous albums, and record sales are irrelavent here. how 'bout we just discuss the new album and the recording techniques/songs present on it rather than bicker?
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Old 06-23-2003, 04:10 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Kinda off-topic, but why does everyone hate on Newsted soooo much? I like the guy a lot, actually,. Yes, Cliff was an impossible act to follow, but Newsted is a damn good player.
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Old 06-23-2003, 11:00 PM   #27 (permalink)
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newsted is a cool guy, but i really never heard him play, like actually play, like cliffs types of solos. rob is cool too, he goes full out on bass, i like that.

i think St. Anger is cool, i like how its not like AJFA and ride etc.

but i think AJFA is my favourite album ever. its just so heavy it makes your eyes bleed.
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Old 06-24-2003, 10:42 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Nice work, mercury-hg. Your cohesive arguments rip the nonsensical profanity and over-use of capital letters seen in your opponents' posts to shreds. sk
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Old 06-24-2003, 10:04 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Hmmm as someone who has of yet has not gone out and bought the album...do you think it's worth it to plunk down 20 dollars? I seriously feel that Metallica's last great album was S&M and before that Black. Kinda disenfranchised with the whole Napster/new sound thing.
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Old 06-25-2003, 05:25 AM   #30 (permalink)
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20 dollars? You need to get out of the mall dude! Best Buy had it for $9.99 when it came out, and you should still be able to get it for about $12 or $13 there or at Circuit City. Don't pay $20 for any CD!
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