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Old 11-24-2009, 11:24 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Is Lady Gaga in on her own joke?

If you have no familiarity with Lady Gaga past being the latest pop tart flavor-of-the-month Britney Aguilera knockoff with overproduced over-engineered, and overplayed throbbing-beat, dance-mix, chart-toppers, allow me to present a slightly different perspective:



And to demonstrate that this gal is still under the blond wig:





Ok, so she can sing without Autotune. That doesn't mean there's a brain behind the voice, right? She could still be the pop culture manufactured Mike's Hard Lemonade to more serious musicians hearty Belgian Ale. Is there substance as well as talent?


Quote:
At age 11, she was set to join Juilliard School in Manhattan, but instead attended Convent of the Sacred Heart, a private Roman Catholic school. Playing piano by ear from the age of 4, she went on to write her first piano ballad at 13 and began performing at open mike nights by age 14. At age 17, she gained early admission to the New York University's Tisch School of the Arts. There, she studied music and improved her songwriting skills by composing essays and analytical papers focusing on topics such as art, religion and socio-political order. She later withdrew from the school to focus on her musical career

[...]

During [2007], she began writing for artists signed to Akon's Konvict label, as well as Fergie, the Pussycat Dolls, Britney Spears, and New Kids on the Block.[6] After hearing her sing a reference vocal for one of his tracks, Akon formed the opinion that she was also a good singer.
From Lady Gaga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which brings us to a discussion. Do you consider putting on a trashy glam fashion hypersexed persona and catering to popular music aesthetics to be 'selling out'? If so, is "selling out" in that way even a bad thing? Do you think it's an act? To clarify, how much of what she does and "is" do you think is calculated for shock value, news headlines, and marketability?

Here's my take, feel free to diverge. I am probably over thinking things, but I would like to think she is effectively trolling all her critics by doing what she knows will get her money and fame, and then over the next few years/albums, she'll slowly reintegrate her more serious work into her pop albums...exhibit "A" in this belief is the above-proven existence (and performance) of 'serious' acoustic cuts of her two biggest pop-hits thus far. In my opinion, who cares if she dresses like a scifi hooker? More power to her!


Oh, finally, just for fun, and to prove I'm not the only one overthinking her, here is an interesting article outlining the various Illuminati symbolisms surrounding her:

Lady Gaga, The Illuminati Puppet | The Vigilant Citizen
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Apparently, Megan Fox probably has something similar going on - a manufactured, measured persona and very deliberately chosen interactions with the media.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/ma...n%20fox&st=cse
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:35 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I have no idea who this person is or what kind of music she's responsible for, solely based on her ridiculous stage name. I'm guessing her audience consists of mainly 14 year old girls?
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:56 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by woos View Post
I have no idea who this person is or what kind of music she's responsible for
Whew! I thought it was just me. I'd never heard of her beore I saw her on the American Music Awards last Sunday.
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I learned about some 15 year old boy from TMZ the other night. He even sounds like a little boy singing. Can't remember his name but I will firmly state, that New Kids On The Block, were much hotter than this dude way back when.
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Are we talking a David Bowie type of act in a Ziggy Stardust kinda of way?

In the indie/underground world, being on the radio is "selling out", so in that sense she has sold out by just making money.

I would say no, a persona is just that. Granted I hate her music, but with artists these days, having a stick like this will help sell music. If you are smart about it (IE don't go overboard with spending MC Hammer style) you can use the money you make off your crap music under a different name to fund your "real" music.

If I was going to try to make it in the music world, that's what I would do. Make a stage name, make some crap pop music, sling the shit like candy and make it so over the top that people are talking about it all the time. Collect my checks, invest wisely and then open up my own studio to get unknown artists out there on the scene. Make more money being a producer, then when I'm comfortable with the ins & outs of the industry, come out with an album of my own under my own terms.
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PonyPotato View Post
Apparently, Megan Fox probably has something similar going on - a manufactured, measured persona and very deliberately chosen interactions with the media.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/ma...n%20fox&st=cse
Good observation, PP. I really wonder how much of the more controversial celebrities interactions with the media are calculated for maximum impact. I have gone down this mental path with Paris Hilton also, but not to the researched extent I have with Lady Gaga.

---------- Post added at 12:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEden View Post
If I was going to try to make it in the music world, that's what I would do. Make a stage name, make some crap pop music, sling the shit like candy and make it so over the top that people are talking about it all the time. Collect my checks, invest wisely and then open up my own studio to get unknown artists out there on the scene. Make more money being a producer, then when I'm comfortable with the ins & outs of the industry, come out with an album of my own under my own terms.
I think this is exactly what a lot of the more 'hated' acts are doing.
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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There are sharp minds out there in the music world... I don't know if she's one of them. Anyone who says: "I can make money by doing something ridiculous or by being sufficiently outrageous" is welcome to do so in my estimation, assuming they aren't hurting anyone. Some of the longest-lived musical/entertainment people have re-invented themselves over and over. Maybe Lady Gaga is just that sort of a person. Personally, I've enjoyed both some of her music, and that of another entertainer who causes me a similar feeling of ambivalence, Pink. Some of their music is enjoyable, but most seems to be techno-crap.

On the other hand, while I can't say I'd ever go watch a Lady Gaga concert, or buy one of her albums, she's making more money than I ever will with her antics, so I'm not going to say she doesn't have something going for her.

And then there is one of my favourite artists, Cher, whose longevity is incredible. I couldn't believe hearing her techno version of some of her hits. But my kids love them.
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It's not techno, don't care
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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She is in on it, and sells herself as the tongue in cheek acknowledgement of the plasticity of the music industry and celebrity. I still can't stand her, 'cause I don't buy it.
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Old 11-24-2009, 04:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The more I read about her and the more I see of things like the first video, I am convinced she very clearly knows what she is doing. I don't think it's important to know whether she is "in on it" or "just knows what works". It's a very fine line to distinguish between the two and the end result is the same.

It's interesting to draw a comparison to Ziggy Stardust. If you were to compare these two, I'd say Lady Gaga is playing a much deeper game than Bowie. Bowie acknowledged the act and the character. So far, she has not.

The other interesting thing to note is that, from what I can see she is manufacturing herself rather than some record label or svengali. And regardless of intent to "pull the wool" or "troll the critics", that makes all the difference.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:35 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LordEden View Post
If I was going to try to make it in the music world, that's what I would do. Make a stage name, make some crap pop music, sling the shit like candy and make it so over the top that people are talking about it all the time. Collect my checks, invest wisely and then open up my own studio to get unknown artists out there on the scene. Make more money being a producer, then when I'm comfortable with the ins & outs of the industry, come out with an album of my own under my own terms.
That's very similar to what Shock G did with Digital Underground and it is a very wise and business minded way to go about things.
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Tele, I just saw her on Leno the other night and she surprised me. Wasn't the dumb blond pop star I expected. She was quirky, a little on the quiet side and seemed to have at least half a brain in her head.

I'm glad you posted these videos, shows a very different side to her music, its refreshing.
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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and this is why i want nothing to do with the established music scenes.
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
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She's got a skill, and by putting on a spangly frock people pay her a very large sum of money to perform.

I'd do it in a shot.

Why is it that it is only in the arts that doing well and being paid is seen as "selling out"? If I was offered an office job that I enjoyed and was good at for double my current salary, everyone would call me insane for turning it down.
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:16 AM   #16 (permalink)
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True Daniel.

People in the entertainment industry do what they have to to stay on top. And playing to what the mass public wants to see is doing just that. Isn't that kind of why they do it? For the public? Entertainers are out to entertain as large of an audience as they can. Granted some are not so main stream but there are all types of audiences out there so we need performers of all types.
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Old 11-25-2009, 05:58 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_ View Post
Why is it that it is only in the arts that doing well and being paid is seen as "selling out"? If I was offered an office job that I enjoyed and was good at for double my current salary, everyone would call me insane for turning it down.
Quote:
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and this is why i want nothing to do with the established music scenes.
Nothing again Shauk, (I like some of the stuff you post) but that's the reason you will hear the term "sellout" alot more these days. It's under the old saying, "It's about the MUSIC, not making money". You can't be on TV, the Radio, or on a record label (I've even heard people say some of the Indie labels are corporate greed machines) then you have let yourself be fucked by the Pop Greed Machine.

Me? I like making money and not wondering if the bar I'm playing at is going to pay me. I like not wondering if I'm going eat today or if I have enough money to replace any supplies needed for to continue doing what I love. Seems to me that the music industry is the only place where when you finally "make it", your peers boo you. I don't see a group of angry scientists with bad haircuts throwing rotten fruit at a grad student who got a grant with a major university/gov/corporation. Also, as usual, I could be wrong.

This could also be why I'm not a musician. That and I couldn't carry a tune in a ten-gallon bucket.
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:46 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I forget what rocker said it ( I want to say it was Rod Stewart in the early 90's), "What's a sell out? Someone selling the art they create? To me that's not a sell out that's someone successful. There are many "noble" artists living in cardboard boxes who would write "Yummy Yummy" if it meant they could have a swimming pool. We're artists, our very existence is to sell our art. The more successful you become, the more you are accused of "selling out"."
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:00 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Why is it that it is only in the arts that doing well and being paid is seen as "selling out"?
Egotism and jealousy.

I happen to like her CD. She reminds me a bit of Kylie Minogue with this disc.

I knew her name but not much else about her before buying the CD, I had read an article about her that called her the "new Madonna" and that piqued my interest enough to give her music a listen. I thought the songs were catchy but wasn't sure how they came up with the Madonna comparison till I saw the clip of her playing the piano at NYU.
I don't know, nor care, who's idea it was for this stage persona but I will be watching for her next couple of CD's as I am curious if she is a one trick pony or if there is more to her than this current album shows.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:21 AM   #20 (permalink)
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There is no selling out, just buying in.
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:25 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Eh, it's been done...













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Old 11-25-2009, 10:13 AM   #22 (permalink)
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zomg that's so messed up. I just scanned over the title while checking threads this morning, started thinking of KISS and here they be.

I had a psychotic vision.

edit - erm... afternoon.

Last edited by woos; 11-25-2009 at 10:26 AM..
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:16 AM   #23 (permalink)
 
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well, given that this is a marketing approach, there's really not much of a question about whether she knows or not, is there?
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:23 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_ View Post
Why is it that it is only in the arts that doing well and being paid is seen as "selling out"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotzlid View Post
jealousy
Agreed. So long as you are playing for coffee shops and dive bars you can retain the credibility derived from struggling, just like the rest of your Ramen noodle eating bretheren.

I live in the Benson area of Omaha. Benson is a very bohemian neighborhood, and is polluted with said coffee shops and dive bars. But, at the end of the main drag, on Maple street, is the offices of Saddlecreek Records, a major indie lablel. Tell me that any of the acts, playing in these joints, aren't hoping to be the next Bright Eyes, Cursive or The Faint. So, is Conor Oberst, who used to play in the Benson area all of the time, also a "sellout"? By definition...yes. Why? Because you have heard of him. Otherwise, he'd still just be that kid that plays with those guys down on Maple street.

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well, given that this is a marketing approach, there's really not much of a question about whether she knows or not, is there?
And, with no capitalization, whatsoever, roachboy has summed up the entire thread and tied a bow around it. Because, in the end, what is all of it if not just a marketing approach? For what it's worth, I really liked her in that first video that telekinetic put up. Much more to my style and taste.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:26 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:59 PM   #26 (permalink)
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How could I forget?

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Old 11-26-2009, 07:32 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Personally, I've enjoyed both some of her music, and that of another entertainer who causes me a similar feeling of ambivalence, Pink.
Interesting, Lady Gaga reminds me exactly of Pink. Pink started out with urban sounding party jams under the careful direction of LA Reid. Once she got enough success to "push the envelope", she went much more in a punky pop direction. But like Lady Gaga, she's stuck with a persona instead of completely re-becoming Alicia Moore.
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:07 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I think she's in on it.

And...I think I'm in on her. I don't know why, but she's a pop star I can tolerate and maybe even enjoy a little bit. I think it's because she acknowledges the facade and it's overtly a facade. The Britneys and the Christinas are trying to be Britney and Christina. But Lady Gaga is Lady Gaga, but there is still what's-her-name? underneath.

Oh, and these guys are definitely in on the joke:
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:15 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Not my thing but she is not bad. Pulls alot of vocal cliches and is pitchy at times, somewhat slightly loses the key but is good enough to find it back quickly.(not to be confused with vocal glissandos for those in the know) Better than most in todays music industry machine of mediocrity but by no means ready to put on a masters class as of yet. 7.5/10
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:36 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Not all artists make good business decisions, and vice versa.

Lady Gaga appears to me to be someone who can be successful both as a businesswoman and as an artist, on her own terms. It will be interesting to see where she is in 5 years, when the initial Gaga novelty over her presence has worn off.
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Old 12-06-2009, 01:31 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Haha, awesome vid BG.

I think she's at least partially in on it. By that I mean I think it started out that way; her pretending to be "popy" to sell records and eventually support her real art. But now I think it may have evolved as part of her personality. I'm not sure you can *be* something like that so well without it really being some part of yourself. To become what she has so thoroughly she must have had to let some part of herself run vapid.
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:08 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:46 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Eh, it's been done...













If I could do pics... but I can't so I'll just add to your list

ALICE COOPER

MARILYN MANSON

FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD

WHAM

OINGO BOINGO

WHEEZER

DAVID BOWIE

THE MONKEES

part of being in the music business (especially rock/pop) is to develop your own niche and look then market it as much as the music (moreso if the music sucks).
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Old 12-12-2009, 12:12 PM   #34 (permalink)
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OK, I am a big fan of techno, house, Drum n' Bass music and I am currently listening to the second installment of the The Fame - The Fame Monster and IT ROCKS!! She's totally emulating some of Madonna's work. Lady Gaga Hate I chalk it up to "ohhh radio, I will get ebola" disease.

Take her video of Bad Romance for example ... that is pure art and very creative. Sure she bombed in the failed paparazzi attempt with the dead corpses but this video is GOOD! Her lyrics may be cheap when she goes "boys boys boys, we like boys in ba'ars ..." but she has executed her style with entertainment. Whoever thinks Lady Gaga is uninteresting needs to give her a second listening ...
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