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Old 05-04-2003, 10:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
Nobody Loves Me
 
Location: Irish In Madrid
If you like Hip-Hop (not rap)

Its a big file but its soooooooooo worth it get your hands on this file:
Live on BBC radio 1, Breezeblock By Dj Shadow, Chief Xcel, Lateef, Lyrics Born & Gift of Gab

This stuff is Reelly Phresh!

Last edited by Magpie0001; 05-04-2003 at 12:14 PM..
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Old 05-04-2003, 12:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What is the difference between hip hop and rap?

This is an honest inquiry, as I have no idea and thought the two were synonymous.
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Old 05-04-2003, 12:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
Nobody Loves Me
 
Location: Irish In Madrid
Quote:
Originally posted by apetaster
What is the difference between hip hop and rap?

This is an honest inquiry, as I have no idea and thought the two were synonymous.
Rap:

To the untrained ear, all rap and hip-hop may sound the same, but there's a number of different levels in even the simplest rap song. At its core, hip-hop is a post-modern musical genre that deconstructs familiar sounds and songs, rebuilding them as entirely new, unpredictable songs. Early rap records, commonly called "old school," were made by DJs scratching records and playing drum loops, with MCs rapping over the resulting rhythms. As the genre progressed, hard-rock guitars and hard-hitting beats were introduced by Run-D.M.C., the first hardcore rap group, and the scratching techniques were replaced by sampling. With their dense collages of samples, beats and white noise, Public Enemy took sampling to the extreme, and they helped introduce a social and political conscience to hip-hop. That faded in the '90s, as gangsta rap originally introduced by NWA, who used Public Enemy's sound as a template became the dominant form. By the '90s, gangsta rap, which originally was in direct opposition to such pop-oriented rappers as MC Hammer, had become smoothed over and stylish, and consequently was more popular than ever, as evidenced by the success of pop-gangsta Puff Daddy.

Hip hop:

In the terminology of rap music, Hip-Hop usually refers to the culture graffiti-spraying, breakdancing, and turntablism in addition to rapping itself surrounding the music. As a style however, hip-hop refers to music created with those values in mind. Once rap had been around long enough to actually have a history, hip-hop groups began looking back to old-school figures including MCs like Kurtis Blow and Whodini, and DJs like Grandmaster Flash and Afrika Bambaataa. In fact, the latter's Zulu Nation collective sprang up in the late '80s around two of the most notable hip-hop artists, De La Soul and A Tribe Called Quest. With rap music's mainstream breakout during the '90s, dozens of hip-hop artists pointed the way back to the old school, including underground rappers like Mos Def and Pharoahe Monch.

Source
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Old 05-05-2003, 03:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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have you heard much Masta Ace???? His album Disposable Arts from 99 (i think) is absolutely amazing. He's an original from back in the day with Biz and Marley Marl. This is his latest, and it's quite a commentary on today's stuff. worth it! it's the shit.
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Old 05-06-2003, 10:10 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Location: Irish In Madrid
Quote:
Originally posted by druptight
have you heard much Masta Ace???? His album Disposable Arts from 99 (i think) is absolutely amazing. He's an original from back in the day with Biz and Marley Marl. This is his latest, and it's quite a commentary on today's stuff. worth it! it's the shit.
I checked into that Masta Ace, not bad. A little sleepy for my taste.
On another note:
I dont understand why alot of Rap artists are so uncreative with the music, they seem to concentrate almost totally on the rapping. Its the same "Boom tik, boom boom tik" for three & a half minutes. Just doesnt seem creative to me & the thing is, everybodys doing it. Even live, You see four guys come blasting lyrics on the stage & theres a Dj looking all gloomy behind them fiddling with buttons but whats he really doing of its the same loop running throughout the track???? It seems very poserish to me.
Any thoughts??
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Old 05-06-2003, 01:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Masta Ace is amazing. If you like him, check out Masters At Work, Deltron 3030, and Sensational
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Old 05-06-2003, 04:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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i've got Del, i haven't heard the others though. i'll check them out.

As for the beat comment above, i think it depends what kind of hip hop you're listening to. A lot of the underground stuff has either really complex beats, or else it has really simple beats. They either impress you with the beat, or with the lyrics (which is why those ones tend to have simple beats). As for radio crap, i don't really listen to it much, i'm not impressed by it at all.
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Old 05-14-2003, 12:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Location: 3 feet high and rising
well, magpie0001, i disagree somewhat with your comment that all hip hop has the same boring beats... a lot of it does, but there are definitely some innovative production crews out there that push the envelope. RZA back in the day was really doing things, Timbaland brought a new sound, and most recently the Neptunes. This is not an exhaustive list by any means, just some major new-chapter authors...

i would also say that there are subtle nuances to every track that are different, but i too hear the same tired beat done over and over, but what makes it different are different loops on top, and of course the "instrument" of the rapper's delivery.

that is all i got for now...

c_b
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Old 05-14-2003, 01:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Location: Irish In Madrid
Quote:
Originally posted by clues_blues
well, magpie0001, i disagree somewhat with your comment that all hip hop has the same boring beats... a lot of it does, but there are definitely some innovative production crews out there that push the envelope. RZA back in the day was really doing things, Timbaland brought a new sound, and most recently the Neptunes. This is not an exhaustive list by any means, just some major new-chapter authors...

i would also say that there are subtle nuances to every track that are different, but i too hear the same tired beat done over and over, but what makes it different are different loops on top, and of course the "instrument" of the rapper's delivery.

that is all i got for now...

c_b
Dude?, I didnt say "all" & I didnt say "Hip-hop"

I said:
Quote:
Originally said by myself
I dont understand why alot of Rap artists are so uncreative with the music, they seem to concentrate almost totally on the rapping.
Much respect to the innovators, or those who introduce a different twist. What Im talking aobut the HUGE majority of rappers who just follow the formula.

Also:
Quote:
Also, totally said by me
Its a big file but its soooooooooo worth it get your hands on this file:
Live on BBC radio 1, Breezeblock By Dj Shadow, Chief Xcel, Lateef, Lyrics Born & Gift of Gab


This stuff is Reelly Phresh!
Rappings great but its nice when an artist goes all out & creates something, suprises the listner, rather than just spitting rhymes over a break.
Do you still disagree with me?

Sorry bout the HTML madness
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Old 05-15-2003, 06:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Location: 3 feet high and rising
hip-hop and rap to me are still words that can be used interchangeably, though i definitely know the difference between their meanings. i should have been more careful of their context here, however, since their exact meanings were just mentioned earlier in the thread.

i can't really fault the rappers (other than to say that they may at times be complacent when choosing a beat to rap over) when their primary function is write and deliver their poetry. rappers who both produce and rap, are another beast altogether. if they do both and do nothing to move their art in a forward direction, then i can see where there is certainly something to discuss.

maybe if i could hear the particular sounds that prompted you to begin the thread, we could discuss from the same place. do you have the link to the radio 1 show? i looked for it all over the radio 1 website, but could not locate it.

also, give me an example of one of these rappers that isn't doing much, and maybe one who you think is - that way we can discuss specifics if you want to continue this thread.

btw - i hope you didn't feel like i was attacking you or anything - we're just chattin'

c_b
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Old 05-15-2003, 07:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
Nobody Loves Me
 
Location: Irish In Madrid
You cant find the track on radio 1's website coz its a bootleg. The only way to get it is Kazaa. Im dying for someone to check it out, its the sweetest. Rheally phresh. Real hip-hop. That is the particular sound that prompted me to start this thread.

Others:
Latyrx
Dj Shadow (of course)
Quannum projects
Mix Master Mike (turntablism)
Dj Krush
Cut Chemist
Q - Bert
Beastie Boys
Lyrics Born
Kid Koala
Busta Rhymes (creative rapping))

Theres a few turntablists there but thats coz its my passion. If scratchy beats aint your flavour the breezeblock tune is still sooooo worth a listen.
If you want to go out & get something, check out Soulsides Greatest Bumps Vol.2

Rappers that arnt doing much, I could write a book.

Shawn Combs (this weasel is just a business man)
Will Smith (An entertainer, he said it himself)
Nelly (Pop music)
Jay-Z (An artist, a rip off artist)
Lil Kim (a rapping hooker)

most of the above, on top of the "Boom, tik, Boom Boom, Tik" running throughout 99% of thier trax the rapping is not that great & in some cases tragically talentless.

Btw: I know where just chatting.
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Old 05-15-2003, 09:39 AM   #12 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Location: 3 feet high and rising
you like some good ish...but now i see where you are coming from. seeing as how you are big into turtablism, i can understand your orig. complaint.

if you like that qulity stuff, you'd prob. like (or like already)

anything on ninja tune label
http://www.turntableradio.com/ (rush to this site!)
-as well as-
tribe called quest
outkast
black eyed peas
de la soul
blackstar (as well as mos def and talib kweli's solo stuff)
common
the roots
pharcyde
etc.

i admit that i like my junk rap too like lil' wayne (manny fresh is a great producer), gfk, jay-z (he has really got some flow, but every third lyric is BIG's)

c_b
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Old 05-15-2003, 06:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Right now, the hot "underground" label is Def Jux. El-P, Mr. Lif, Rjd2, Cannibal Ox, and on and on.
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Old 05-15-2003, 07:38 PM   #14 (permalink)
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great post up thereMagpie. Its very hard to articulate the difference between those two genres and u put it very nicely. I almost wish i could take a copy of that around with me and show it to all the kids who try to tell me jayz is hip hop. I think rap is on a hard down swing and only artists like mos def are doin it any justice. And thats only because of his obvious love for hip hop. Again great post man.
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Old 05-16-2003, 01:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
Nobody Loves Me
 
Location: Irish In Madrid
Quote:
Originally posted by bleeckerx
great post up thereMagpie. Its very hard to articulate the difference between those two genres and u put it very nicely. I almost wish i could take a copy of that around with me and show it to all the kids who try to tell me jayz is hip hop. I think rap is on a hard down swing and only artists like mos def are doin it any justice. And thats only because of his obvious love for hip hop. Again great post man.
Well thank you very muchly.
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Old 05-16-2003, 02:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Location: in my head
you ever hear of fushnickins? (spelling) I heard that one time and really liked it. My favorite stuff is probably bone thugs in harmony, but I like a lot of different stuff, which my hard rocking friends find amazing, considering how much i like hard rock and such.
That was a great explanation, by the way.
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Old 05-17-2003, 01:37 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Location: Irish In Madrid
My conscience has once again gotten the better of me, bleeckerx and ganon the explanation of differences between Rap & Ip - Op above isnt mine.
Your first clue is the link underneath that says source Check it out, go ahead. Youve got nothing to loose.
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Old 05-17-2003, 06:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
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haha yeah i noticed that later on, still a good spot on your part- so you still get credit in my book. heh.
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Old 05-17-2003, 07:19 AM   #19 (permalink)
Nobody Loves Me
 
Location: Irish In Madrid
Quote:
Originally posted by bleeckerx
haha yeah i noticed that later on, still a good spot on your part- so you still get credit in my book. heh.
Woo, yeah, credit for me!









*Hehehe, Little do they know, with this credit & the store under my bed I will finally put into action my campaign to take over the world! Muahua huaaaa!*
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Old 05-17-2003, 08:18 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Fu-Snickens?
omg.. that takes me back ten years.. Are they still doing stuff together?
Looks like it's time for a trip to the used CD store..
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Old 05-18-2003, 06:23 AM   #21 (permalink)
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MagPie0001 seems to have good taste, so I may have to check out some of that stuff. Also, clues_blues mentioned "anything on Ninja Tune" and I would have to wholeheartedly agree.

But why has no one mentioned The Roots? Great example of what hip-hop is as opposed to rap.
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Old 05-19-2003, 10:38 AM   #22 (permalink)
Nobody Loves Me
 
Location: Irish In Madrid
Quote:
Originally posted by Antagony
MagPie0001 seems to have good taste, so I may have to check out some of that stuff.
Thanks Antagony, Im still waiting for someone to D-Load the track at the begining of this thread. But alas, I fear it will never be.
I have to say Im pleasantly suprised at the musical maturity here in TFP.
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Old 05-19-2003, 08:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
Hello, good evening, and bollocks.
 
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Location: near DC
OK here's a plug....I just got Prince Paul's new record last week and i cant get enough of it...crazy shyt.....check out www.princepaulonline.com and you can listen to it online at http://www.hyfntrak.com/princepaul/email/

seriously this is the best damn record ive heard in a while, the beats are INSANE
check it out you wont be wasting yer time....

Last edited by Fearless_Hyena; 05-19-2003 at 08:32 PM..
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Old 05-20-2003, 10:57 AM   #24 (permalink)
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ive been tryin to get it, and ive got a couple different long files- what is the exact length of yours magpie?
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Old 05-20-2003, 11:03 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Location: Irish In Madrid
67,194KB
47Min47sec
Is it possible to search for specific users on Kazaa?
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Old 05-20-2003, 11:30 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fearless_Hyena
OK here's a plug....I just got Prince Paul's new record last week and i cant get enough of it...crazy shyt.....check out www.princepaulonline.com and you can listen to it online at http://www.hyfntrak.com/princepaul/email/

seriously this is the best damn record ive heard in a while, the beats are INSANE
check it out you wont be wasting yer time....
ummm...i need this album AND prince among theives. damn - good lookin' out.

i have found a couple choice records through this thread to + to my collection. thanks everyone!

c_b
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Old 05-20-2003, 11:35 AM   #27 (permalink)
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magpie, i think u can search for users, but there are so many servers. the chances of finding who u want is slim..ima getme that file now : )
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Old 05-20-2003, 11:49 AM   #28 (permalink)
Nobody Loves Me
 
Location: Irish In Madrid
Quote:
Originally posted by bleeckerx
magpie, i think u can search for users, but there are so many servers. the chances of finding who u want is slim..ima getme that file now : )
Be sure to tell us all what you think, Im listening to it right now.

Are you ready?,
Are you ready?,
Are you ready..
EEaa. oo. uuho,
Are you ready?
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Old 05-20-2003, 06:12 PM   #29 (permalink)
Upright
 
some tight breaks, smart samplin and dead on turntablism- its damn good. this is the kinda thing im gonna have to listen to multiple times to pick up on some of the more subtle aspects but im enjoyin the hell outta it now. DJ shadow is on point. Shadow records is awesome, their head compilation is sooo good.

btw
Anyone else here diggin on the rjd2?

again nice find magpie, good lookin
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Old 05-20-2003, 07:56 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Nah man streight up atmosphere all the way...
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Old 05-20-2003, 09:48 PM   #31 (permalink)
Upright
 
haha rjd2 is all atmosphere?
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Old 05-21-2003, 10:42 AM   #32 (permalink)
Nobody Loves Me
 
Location: Irish In Madrid
If anyones intrested, I'd be happy to recomend other Hip - hop Jems. Let me know.
Peace.
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Old 05-21-2003, 11:09 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I bought the new Prince PAul Album 2 weeks ago allong with RJd2's single for "the Horror"
Liked the RJ single. Not soo impressed with the Prince Paul LP. I like Paul.. I liked "A prince among Theives" and "handsome Boy Modeling School"
I loooved Automator's "Lovage" album, and "A better Tomorrow", but I cannot say the same for the album "Politics of the Business".

Maybe I need to listen to it more, maybe not.. but we should remember that just because we identify with something being "underground" that doesnt automaticly make it great. Try listening to a full Atari Teenage Riot, or MixMaster Mike album. Sure technically they are stunning (if you dig turntablism and digital hardcore), but I just cant listen to that shit every day.. you know?
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Old 05-21-2003, 11:39 AM   #34 (permalink)
Nobody Loves Me
 
Location: Irish In Madrid
S'true, the MMM album is a little hard on the ears, It's very technical & If you dont scratch yourself it can sound like "mental scribblings" Thats the thing with Turntablism, I'll be the first to admit it does'nt always sound agreeable. If you can follow the real time editing, which table is being used, where one sample ends & one begins, Where the faders are, etc etc it takes on a new life.
Maybe thats why turntablism hasnt become popular, mainstream.
Gotta say, I prefer it unpolluted.
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Old 05-22-2003, 04:03 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Location: Newcastle - England.
Mapgpie00001 - The breeze block is on Radio1 in the UK week nights from about 11:30pm til 1:30am. You can usually get track listings on the BBC website. Trouble is if you don't hear the show you'll have no idea what song goes with the artist. You'll have to work that one out for yourself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/dance/breezeblock
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Old 05-22-2003, 09:30 AM   #36 (permalink)
Nobody Loves Me
 
Location: Irish In Madrid
Quote:
Originally posted by jwoody
Mapgpie00001 - The breeze block is on Radio1 in the UK week nights from about 11:30pm til 1:30am. You can usually get track listings on the BBC website. Trouble is if you don't hear the show you'll have no idea what song goes with the artist. You'll have to work that one out for yourself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/dance/breezeblock
Yeah but its always somebody different, I have Chemical Bros Groove armada, Shadow etc, Daft Punk and so on. Theyre all waaaay cool. Daft punk is awesome. Chemical Bros is unmixed & a sorta interview too. Groove armada kicks, real party sound.
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Old 05-22-2003, 07:57 PM   #37 (permalink)
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didn't dj shadow do zach de la rocha from rages solo cut?
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Old 05-23-2003, 07:06 AM   #38 (permalink)
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yes. it's called march of death (http://www.marchofdeath.com) , and is really bad in my opinion.
I like Shadow, I like Zach (somewhat). I just dont like that particular song.
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Old 05-23-2003, 08:44 AM   #39 (permalink)
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id have to agree, i dig on zach and and dj shadow but that track is really poor IMO
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