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Old 05-11-2005, 05:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Are there still witch hunts?

I have a friend who is a Wicca, and she claims everyone from the government to the church is prosecuting her.

Now, I have a couple of other friends that are also Wicca’s. And they claim to have no issues with anyone. Most people just look at it like a religion, nothing more. But according to her. The governments made her register as a Wicca in according to the patriot act so to keep track of people like her. They also downloaded a computer program to keep track of her movement on the net (without her knowing it of course) and she accusing the church of going around and telling her family that she’s a witch. And she has friends whose houses where burned down because of their beliefs.

Now, I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but had to check some of the story out. And I found no evidence of any Wicca that has this happen to them. Or has even heard of it. But then again. My contacts are limited. So I put it to you all. Is there still this kind of treatment out there? Have you heard of anything like this happening? Is there a government program called “prowler” that tracks a persons movements on the net and reports them? Or is she just paranoid?
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Old 05-11-2005, 08:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Well I had a girlfriend who was Pagan / Wicca (was Pagan but practiced Wicca, I'll leave it there) and there were the occasional assholes who would make obscene phone calls. These aren't your general crack callers because they were specifically geared to criticize them as being Wicca (criticize being a moderate word).

Or I frequent this Wicca store. It is where a Christian Book Store once was and people still come in looking for it, realize where they are, and book it. Not to make fun of fat Christian women, but that is hysterical to see them run like the devil outta that store.

I find it sad how the Christian people I know talk all about acceptance and tolerance yet they this kind of shit they show towards Pagans or Wiccas.
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Old 05-11-2005, 08:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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yeah, actually just got a presentation today about the Wiccan religion by said person and no conspiracy theories were mentioned.

but i'll admit it is funny seeing christian people fly out of the wicca store because they didn't stop to read.
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Old 05-12-2005, 05:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 05-12-2005, 06:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Don't people of every religion get persecuted in one way or another?

If Pagans and Wiccas feel they are being treated poorly perhaps they should have a talk with some Islamics.
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Old 05-12-2005, 07:37 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I think that there's always extremists. And Augi, a lot of Christians are tolerant and accepting. True Christians. But you'll always find some who believe Wicca is the devil's craft and burn houses, harass, etc. Example. I'm anti abortion, but I'd never picket an abortion clinic, the people who picket the clinics may not sniper the abortion doctors. Within every belief, there are different levels of extremities. It's really unfortunate that your friend's had to experience some of the more negative extremes.
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Old 05-12-2005, 08:51 AM   #7 (permalink)
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1: The FedGov does plenty of "snooping and pooping" through people's online activities. However, they are primarily concerned with political dissidents at the moment. Religious registration does not ( yet ) exist in this country, and no provision of the USA PATRIOT act provides for such ( I checked ).

2: Many Wiccans are rivaled only by Super-Fundie Christians and the ADL in their mania for "More Persecuted Than Thou" syndrome. These so-called "Fluff-bunnies" base a large portion of their feelings in this regard upon fraudulent or misinterpreted history, particularly those portions dealing with the so-called "Burning Times" during which Wiccans ( who didn't exist yet ) were supposedly killed by the millions. This is largely based upon the thouroughly-debunked maunderings of a delusional "historian" named Margaret Meade, who seems to have pulled huge segments of history out of her nether orifice without any primary-source data to back it up. This sort of thing is, IMO, almost always a plea for attention. These people -want- to be persecuted, so that they can feel superior to those around them. Super-Fundies like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell pull this stunt all the time. There is a lawsuit pending in Texas ( I think ) currently where a student is demanding to be allowed to wear red eyeliner, a 10-inch Mohawk haircut, several piercings, and black lipstick to class...not because he likes such things, but because ( according to him ) it is a function of being Wiccan. Funny, I can't find Geral Gardener saying any such thing....

IOW, your friend is not paranoid, she is full of shit. I have three Wiccan friends myself, and they all cringe when they encounter this sort of nonsense. They feel ( correctly ) that it gives Wicca a bad name by associating serious practicioners such as themselves with Fluff-bunny attention-whoring bullshit. You might want to direct her to the following website;
http://wicca.timerift.net/index.html
which is an excellent resource for this kind of thing.
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Old 05-12-2005, 11:52 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dunedan

IOW, your friend is not paranoid, she is full of shit. I have three Wiccan friends myself, and they all cringe when they encounter this sort of nonsense. They feel ( correctly ) that it gives Wicca a bad name by associating serious practicioners such as themselves with Fluff-bunny attention-whoring bullshit. You might want to direct her to the following website;
http://wicca.timerift.net/index.html
which is an excellent resource for this kind of thing.
Agree with all Dunedan said up to possibly this point. Not knowing your friend, but still preferring to give people the benefit of the doubt, my guess is your friend is paranoid. She may well really believe all this is happening to her, but I don't think it actually is.
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Old 05-12-2005, 03:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
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There are no witch hunts....and those who are Wiccan.....will rarely tell you until you know then quite well. Not because they fear persecution, but because it is a relatively personal thing....and requires no validation.
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Old 05-12-2005, 03:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Really Tec? I've met many that told me 10 minutes into first meeting them

maybe I just look like the type they know will understand
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Old 05-12-2005, 05:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaniFaye
Really Tec? I've met many that told me 10 minutes into first meeting them

maybe I just look like the type they know will understand
Actually, Tec is right, I know a few other Wiccans and they didn't tell me for many years. But this one told me inside of the first 5 mintues of meeting her. which kinda threw me because the other where private about it.
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Old 05-12-2005, 07:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Personally I couldn't give a damn about who you pray too, what you pray too, or what you pray with--just as long as it isn't me, some people, or furry animals. That crosses my weird shit limitation.

I know people who pray to God, Zeus, Joe Pesci, and I think I know people who believe in the existence of Satan over God... doesn't matter if you are a truly good and decent person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead543
I think that there's always extremists. And Augi, a lot of Christians are tolerant and accepting. True Christians. But you'll always find some who believe Wicca is the devil's craft and burn houses, harass, etc.
I know that all Christians can't be like that but unfortunately I haven't physically met one that didn't do this.

Hell, even I was originally Catholic. Lot o' good it did for me since I'm a Contemporary Transcendentalist, my own philosophy. Best part of being one is people will consider me weird any which way: 1) they don't have the faintest of what a Transcendentalist is and just think "whatever" or; 2) know what a Transcendentalist is and think me a hippie, which is the furthest description of me one can get.
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Old 05-12-2005, 07:48 PM   #13 (permalink)
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ICER, it could be that your friend is a fruitcake and just wants some attention. That's my educated opinion. (four years of psychology and the only thing I can come up with is fruitcake...curse state run colleges!!)

As an aside, the Salem witch trials only lasted for about a year culminating in 20 total deaths. Over the course of history early speculation was that there were 9million people tried, condemned, and executed. Recent research has shown that those numbers are verifiable to about 40,000...throughout history, not bad.

Intolerance has many faces, I agree, and Wiccans face an uphill battle with those that don't choose to educate themselves, however, your friend is creating an aura of intolerance in her own mind. Fabricating persecution and surveillance as a way around perceived judgement by people that she associates with who aren't Wicca. It's been my experience that those people who have chosen Wiccan beliefs are steadfast and care little what others think about their beliefs.

Or she could just be a fruitcake.
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Old 05-13-2005, 11:09 AM   #14 (permalink)
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In all seriousness, religious persecution is very wrong, and it is still a huge problem. I wouldn't put it past people judging and mistreating someone because he or she is 'pegan' (odd that such an outdated term is still comonly used in the Christian church).
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Old 05-13-2005, 03:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Honestly I think Wicca follows all other religions. Most Christian's don't open blast their Christianhood because it's sacred to them and they're life, same with Wiccans. But many of them, I know this from personal experience in dealing with them, are the "Oh, I'm so persecuted, everyone's trying to keep me do-... LOOK AT ME GUYS! I'M BEING KEPT DOWN! OH NO! I'M A WICCAN! LOOK AT ME!!!!" It's basically a grab for attention, a way to mess with people into feeling sorry for you.
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Old 05-13-2005, 03:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I guess my experience in this regard must be somewhat warped.....as I have yet to meet someone on this path who rants in such a way.....short of little girls who think they are witches. But , I could just be sheltered, or blind to the obvious.
Regardless, if indeed there is such persecution it was never directed my way when I was practicing the Wiccan ways....maybe I was just lucky. Or could be the circle of protection worked better than expected....heh
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Old 05-13-2005, 04:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Are you sure she's not schizophrenic or have a schizoid personality disorder? This sounds a lot like the stuff my brother believed (he was a diagnosed schizophrenic). Schizophrenics often believe the government/police/others are out to get them, and if Wicca is an important part of her life, this perception very well could manifest itself in the religious part of her life.
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Old 05-13-2005, 06:04 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medusa99
Are you sure she's not schizophrenic or have a schizoid personality disorder? This sounds a lot like the stuff my brother believed (he was a diagnosed schizophrenic). Schizophrenics often believe the government/police/others are out to get them, and if Wicca is an important part of her life, this perception very well could manifest itself in the religious part of her life.
Yeah, I would say it's either this, or she's one of the "fluff-bunnies" that are Wiccan just to get attention ('member when it was trendy? *shudder*).
There is nothing even close to what she's talking about, although there's subtle stuff everywhere. Kids can wear crosses to school, but not pentacles (cause it will cause a "disruption"). You can have a Christian Student Organization, but not an Athiest one (my brother tried to start one at our high school and the parents FREAKED). It's like racism, it's gone "underground." Everyone knows you can't persecute someone for religion or race, so they're(we're?) much more sneaky about it.
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Old 05-13-2005, 08:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaniFaye
Really Tec? I've met many that told me 10 minutes into first meeting them

maybe I just look like the type they know will understand
Maybe they're attention whores and only doing it because it's trendy/counterculture/rebellious/etc.

edit: I think I should clarify that statement by adding that every so-called "Wican" I have met was exactly like that, and only "followed" the religion because of the above reasons.
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Old 05-13-2005, 09:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medusa99
Are you sure she's not schizophrenic or have a schizoid personality disorder? This sounds a lot like the stuff my brother believed (he was a diagnosed schizophrenic). Schizophrenics often believe the government/police/others are out to get them, and if Wicca is an important part of her life, this perception very well could manifest itself in the religious part of her life.
Well, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. (I know I worded that wrong...)

A few years ago, when money came to town primarily in the pockets of Catholics, a local church printed up a flyer listing all the 'known' Catholics and the businesses they were involved with in an attempt to get their parish to avoid patronizing those businesses. (I know it sounds like a bad sub-plot to a Castle Rock novel, but it's all too true.)

As far as the Wiccan thing is concerned. I've met both sides of the spectrum. On the one side, a good friend of mine, who I used to work with, didn't tell me for years that he and his family were practicing Wiccans. On the other side, I've met quite a few painfully overt Wiccans (usually teenage girls and angsty young men), who use the religion as an excuse to thumb their nose at the heavily Christian society in the area. I mean, a girl in one of my classes professed both being a Wiccan and irrational disdain for nature, which, if I understand correctly, seems to stand at odds with the religion.
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Old 05-14-2005, 10:26 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guthmund
Well, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. (I know I worded that wrong...)

A few years ago, when money came to town primarily in the pockets of Catholics, a local church printed up a flyer listing all the 'known' Catholics and the businesses they were involved with in an attempt to get their parish to avoid patronizing those businesses. (I know it sounds like a bad sub-plot to a Castle Rock novel, but it's all too true.)
While I'm sure that the things you mentioned really do occur (unfortunately), the OP just immediately sent a signal to me, which was schizophrenia...and probably because I've had experience with it. With the information given, she could just as easily be an attention craver, as previously suggested.
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Old 05-14-2005, 09:25 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Yeah, you're probably right.

I certainly wasn't trying to defend the lass, I just thought a little balance to the thread was deserved. I mean, the government is probably too busy checking all the terrorists' library records and such to bother.
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:13 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Click here for her 'worries'

*linkies to the 'Drug Induced Paranoia' Thread*

Anyway back onto topic. Yes, she's right. It reminds me of one of the reason god exists.

Reason: I haven't smoked pot in ages

But why are there purple llamas juggling chainsaws on my roof?

Its' really hard for purple llamas to juggle chainsaws on my roof.

Therefore it is a miracle

Therefore God Exists.

/ends threadjack
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Old 06-14-2005, 05:40 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_marq
Don't people of every religion get persecuted in one way or another?

If Pagans and Wiccas feel they are being treated poorly perhaps they should have a talk with some Islamics.
as an atheist i could care less about religion, but i agree 100% with this statement right here.
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