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Old 06-10-2003, 12:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
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why is this

My brother said this to me once and i still think about it to this day

"You don't HAVE to do anything"

Respond with arguments and i'll rebut every one.
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Old 06-10-2003, 03:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I think you may end up confusing moral duty from practical reality.

The practical reality is that, unless by coincidence you die upon uttering those words, you HAVE to do something. Even choosing to do nothing involves something - namely making the choice to do nothing.

Do you have a moral duty to do things? Now that is a tricky question and one that I doubt you can simply resolve with rebutals. What if you have a moral duty to worship God, but you are in denial of this fact? Are you going to try and rebut that by proving that the existence of God is logically impossible? That may take some time!

An easier way to get to the heart of the matter - I find - is to hit people who say such things. Keep thumping and kicking away. Maybe take their wallet. Eventually they will get angry with you. Not just angry with the situation (as one gets angry with a tone that cracks your windshield) but angry with you for what you are doing. Then keep asking them for reasons why they angry and why you should stop they will eventually reach a point where they say that you shouldn't be hitting them. At that point stop.

Its not exactly rigurous intellectual philosophy, but its a great way to make people think about what they really believe.

If you are not the violent type then show them films about the holocaust or rape. Ask them what they think of it. We can all appeal to the simple logic of moral relativism, but something in our hearts tells us that there is more to it than that.
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Old 06-10-2003, 05:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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A teacher I had in High School put it in a much better fashion IMHO

"You can do anyting you want, as long as you're willing to face the consequences"

Choosing not to do something is of course, still a choice so this argues the same point as your brother, but from a different angle.
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Old 06-10-2003, 12:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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What about the physical reality of doing nothing. Unless you are dead you have to breathe, your heart has to pump blood, your metabolism continues to burn calories to keep you alive. You can't choose to stop those things. Unless you choose to step in front of a moving freight train.
Mtsgsd, great post. I will have to some thinking on that. I had a buddie who took a different slant on it. His motto was "Anything is legal, as long as you don't get caught." Strangely enough he got this from his father who was an IRS Agent, the kind that take away a little old ladie's house for not paying taxes. Did I say 'Strangely enough?' I meant 'It's no surprise.'
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Old 06-10-2003, 01:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You have to die.
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Old 06-10-2003, 02:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mtsgsd
A teacher I had in High School put it in a much better fashion IMHO

"You can do anyting you want, as long as you're willing to face the consequences"

Choosing not to do something is of course, still a choice so this argues the same point as your brother, but from a different angle.
i think chaffed's quote is the better way of asking that question when looking at it moraly, philosophically. Your teachers is better for practacal reality. Oh, and I choose not to face the consequences. Is that allowed?
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Old 06-10-2003, 07:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm with Lebell (and Ben Franklin) on this one: death and taxes.

There is another thought, though- there is nothing that forces you to act, but there are consequences to inaction.
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Old 06-10-2003, 09:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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you can do nothing but you won't get anything.
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Old 06-10-2003, 10:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: why is this

Quote:
Originally posted by also-chaffed
My brother said this to me once and i still think about it to this day

"You don't HAVE to do anything"

Respond with arguments and i'll rebut every one.
You don't HAVE to rebut every one...
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Old 06-13-2003, 04:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Re: why is this

Quote:
Originally posted by debaser
You don't HAVE to rebut every one...
He hasn't rebutted any...

"You don't have to do anything"

True if you take it as
you are not required to perform *any* action at any given moment.

but then; that's kind of a cheat
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Old 06-13-2003, 07:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Wow...killer rebuts there also-chaffed. You sure showed them

I think Geddy Lee sung the answer to this best. "If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice."

By doing nothing, you are in fact doing something. That falls under the category of the Stolen Concept Fallacy. By stating that you are doing nothing, you are contradicting yourself by doing something. You are committing the fallacy in making the statment, because the fallacy is implicit in the statement that you make.
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Old 06-13-2003, 08:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatherThanWords
Wow...killer rebuts there also-chaffed. You sure showed them

I think Geddy Lee sung the answer to this best. "If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice."

By doing nothing, you are in fact doing something. That falls under the category of the Stolen Concept Fallacy. By stating that you are doing nothing, you are contradicting yourself by doing something. You are committing the fallacy in making the statment, because the fallacy is implicit in the statement that you make.
Yup. What he said. Response?
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Old 06-14-2003, 08:34 AM   #13 (permalink)
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My 7th grade biology teacher used to say, "You don't have to do anything but die and pay taxes."
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Old 06-14-2003, 06:21 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Oh come on. Is it english class or what?
To me the statement means onone can tell you what to do.
If you look at the words, I'm wrong. almost anybody is able to tell you what they want you to do. but you don't have to do it.
Even if GOD points his finger at you and says "Believe in me! You make the choise yourself."
othermise i agree that doing nothing is only possible for innanimate or nonexisting objecs. But then again. A stone LIES os the ground. a statue stands. But they're incative.
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Old 06-14-2003, 06:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Whee, you have to be created. When you are is up for debate, but it certainly happens, or there isn't any you to talk about.
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Old 06-14-2003, 08:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I think it goes hand in hand with the idea that doing nothing is as much a choice as doing something. It's not just our actions that have an effect on the world, it's our inactions too.
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Old 06-14-2003, 11:54 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I am waiting for the rebuttal.
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Old 06-17-2003, 12:21 AM   #18 (permalink)
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i don't think it's possible to not do anything... you have to breathe, if you don't want to breathe you have to kill yourself/do something to have yourself killed. either way, you did something.

not to sound clintonesque, but i think it's all in the definition of "do"... is it concious action? or simply anything that your body performs or mind thinks?

and technically, if you don't do anything, you could say you are doing nothing, therefore you are still "doing."
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Old 06-17-2003, 04:53 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatherThanWords
I think Geddy Lee sung the answer to this best. "If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice."
I 'HAVE' to state that whilst Geddy Lee sung the words . .they were written by his wonderful colleague Neil P. . . . and most excellent they are too . . as are many of Mr Pearts scribblings.

Not having to do anything is not the opposite of having to do something . . . because 'something' is specific and 'anything' is by its very nature . . . . anything.


Avoiding doing anything, simply because you feel you have the 'right' not to decide, is actually a cop-out, an excuse for not making the effort. I suggest you do something . . . anything.
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Old 06-17-2003, 06:25 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
I 'HAVE' to state that whilst Geddy Lee sung the words . .they were written by his wonderful colleague Neil P. . . . and most excellent they are too . . as are many of Mr Pearts scribblings.
Well ducknutz, if you would like to get technical about the entire thing, the words actually originated not from Neil Peart, but from the classic novelist and philosopher Ayn Rand. Her premises of objectivism were studied extensively by the members of Rush and reflected in their lyrics
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Old 07-06-2003, 09:38 PM   #21 (permalink)
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My take on the original comment, is one that always pops up at the back of my head when somebody says, "They made me do it" or "I Had No Choice".

To me, the statement means that we take total and absolute responsiblity for our actions. I agree with it for all practical purposes. Meaning that because we cannot explain the impetus behind all actions 100%, we must lay the burden on free will.
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Old 07-06-2003, 10:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
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you have to take up space. Matter and energy can't be created nor destoryed, only really change form. SO you have to take up space, in a physical sense.
But in an emotional/mental sense you don't have to do anything, i think thats your point tho...
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Old 07-07-2003, 12:18 PM   #23 (permalink)
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uhhh ... my brain hurts... stupid calculus.
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Old 07-07-2003, 04:26 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by BBtB
I am waiting for the rebuttal.
Maybe the fact that he hasn't said anything is supposed to be the rebuttal and we're all waiting for nothing.
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Old 07-29-2003, 06:43 AM   #25 (permalink)
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YAY!

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