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Old 08-25-2009, 10:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Do we make the media, or does the media make us?

Is the media a reflection of society, or is society shaped by the media? I used to think it was the former; now I'm starting to believe it's the latter. We spoon feed people at an early age vapid pop stars and reality shows; is it just a coincidence that people worry about civilization going down the shitter?
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Old 08-25-2009, 10:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I believe that the media simply gives us what we want to see. people love tragedy
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Old 08-25-2009, 01:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm not so sure. Aren't we told what we want to see by the media?
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'd say it's a combination of the two... a snake eating its own tail.
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Charlatan View Post
I'd say it's a combination of the two... a snake eating its own tail.
QFT. It's sort of cyclic, but sort of not. The media is a recycling process, but not exactly. Seeing as how each person does not produce the media he or she sees, it's not exactly that each one of us produces the media. In this way, every person is a product of the media, but some people produce that media -start cycle-, as a reflection or interpretation of how they perceive people/life/whatever.

This question should really be categorized under life imitates art or art imitates life, because they are one and the same, except that, arguably, the media is trash, and not art.

Since the modern media's primary concern is to get us to buy stuff, does that mean that we, in reflection, are automatons who purchase (ie purchasing machines)?
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Old 08-26-2009, 03:45 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Where's ARTelevision? There are some mighty interesting threads and posts here and in other threads.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/hall-fa...d-control.html
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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much of it is learned...
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Old 09-02-2009, 01:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Both. Just like in a teacher student relationship one teaches/influences the other. Now which influences the other more is the real question. And one nearly impossible to answer.
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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oh I definitely think most commercial media is doing what it can to lead the masses. for shure.
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Old 10-02-2009, 12:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I have been thinking about this ... and I have to say, WE make the media. It begins with us. People say that TV has progressively gotten worse but has it really? Lowest common denominator, I say.

If the Romans truly did not like feeding people to the lions no one would come to watch. People would cheer on blood and gore just for sport. They enjoy this.
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
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media decides what to show and how to edit what's shown. both to provide sensation to keep eyes on commercials and promote opinions /ideas it wants.
media decides to have shouting matches or calm discussions. people do give in to their urge to rubber neck a car crash but media decides to hold their attention with said car crashes.
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Old 10-02-2009, 12:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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^^ I understand so far. I am biased though because the media doesn't tell you that you NEED that brand new hybrid car. They tell you how much more gas you will save and all the cool bells and whistles they added to the sirius radio that can control you neighbors dogs mind.

What the media does is sell you something. A sensible person would say no thanks. But it is a majority that will be taken in and actually be convinced that they do in fact need whatever it is they see on TV.

I think blaming the media is a classic case of how people blame money for all the evil in the world. The population is entirely to blame for what it sees and does. For a very long time people have been fascinated by drama. And when soap.shakespear.tv was not enough they decided that reality tv is what people need.

During my insomnia filled nights when I am absorbing the tube I usually just flip over the reality tv shows and channels. But I'm a minority in this case. It broadcasts only because many people like to watch it.
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Old 10-02-2009, 12:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'd say both - to an extent. I think the influences, nefarious and not, are legion - populations create and the media, indeed, translates and circumscribes - in effect, telling people what they want to see - based on basic commercial tenets such as salability and ease of distribution.

---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:52 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by boink View Post
media decides what to show and how to edit what's shown. both to provide sensation to keep eyes on commercials and promote opinions /ideas it wants.
media decides to have shouting matches or calm discussions. people do give in to their urge to rubber neck a car crash but media decides to hold their attention with said car crashes.
in other words, what he said.
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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At the point that we the people decided to willfully use "the news" as a means of entertaining ourselves, we handed ourselves over to the media. It was our submission to them that allowed them to "make us" into what we are today.

When our standards slip from truth to entertainment, the media becomes the puppet master.
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Are you familiar with the perturbed feedback systems?
Like electrical control circuits or evidently (but not trivially at all) the earth's atmosphere?

In a utopian world, where nobody wants to make anything but giving the audience what the audience want is a simple feedback system: the producer makes something, the audience gives a feedback, the producer make something that can satisfy that feedback and so on, till you reach an ideal equilibrium. It's like the body controlling yours blood beats when you start jogging: "raise it! A little higher. Too high, this rythm will faint you in a moment, try a bit lower. Lower again... too low, the muscles wants more oxigen try the half... you got it!".
In that world WE are the media.

In a real world the producer strive to give audience not only what they want but also try tu amuse the audience, they have to face that people get bored watching the same things, they have too face the fact that they don't wanna be part of the "equilibrium" they wanna rise over the other to make more profit, in the same time he have to face the budget guy and the marketing rep.
So he don't have to give the exact response to the feedback, sometimes his above his power (the producer doesn't have infinite money, and doesn't work for the sake of art) and below his expectations (he want to stand over the mass and beat the competition, not only be a part of that equilibrium), so try to put in the market a product he think will have success, in that way he perturbate the audience strive for equilibrium (like putting an obstacle to the jogging of our friend) and the feedback can be good or can be bad, can instill new ideas in the audience perturbating succesfully (convince the friend to stop or continue another way), or can be ignored and the audience will keep running over the same objective.
That kind of system, with a feedback, perturbed and so on, under some condition are called with the fancy and most known name of "Chaotic systems".

I hope I made my point, I can see it clearly in my mind but is something I studied and worked for a lot of time, and trying to explain it and to be crystal clear in foreign language is far more difficoult than I expected
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:36 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghnar -ITA- View Post
Are you familiar with the perturbed feedback systems?
Like electrical control circuits or evidently (but not trivially at all) the earth's atmosphere?

In a utopian world, where nobody wants to make anything but giving the audience what the audience want is a simple feedback system: the producer makes something, the audience gives a feedback, the producer make something that can satisfy that feedback and so on, till you reach an ideal equilibrium. It's like the body controlling yours blood beats when you start jogging: "raise it! A little higher. Too high, this rythm will faint you in a moment, try a bit lower. Lower again... too low, the muscles wants more oxigen try the half... you got it!".
In that world WE are the media.

In a real world the producer strive to give audience not only what they want but also try tu amuse the audience, they have to face that people get bored watching the same things, they have too face the fact that they don't wanna be part of the "equilibrium" they wanna rise over the other to make more profit, in the same time he have to face the budget guy and the marketing rep.
So he don't have to give the exact response to the feedback, sometimes his above his power (the producer doesn't have infinite money, and doesn't work for the sake of art) and below his expectations (he want to stand over the mass and beat the competition, not only be a part of that equilibrium), so try to put in the market a product he think will have success, in that way he perturbate the audience strive for equilibrium (like putting an obstacle to the jogging of our friend) and the feedback can be good or can be bad, can instill new ideas in the audience perturbating succesfully (convince the friend to stop or continue another way), or can be ignored and the audience will keep running over the same objective.
That kind of system, with a feedback, perturbed and so on, under some condition are called with the fancy and most known name of "Chaotic systems".

I hope I made my point, I can see it clearly in my mind but is something I studied and worked for a lot of time, and trying to explain it and to be crystal clear in foreign language is far more difficoult than I expected
I follow you. And I can stand behind that sequence of events.
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Truly, this post makes me underscore yet again why I believe media education matters. Some of these are stolen right from the MEF, but are good nonetheless.

Statistics:
  • The average American watches over 4 hours of television per day.
  • 56% of children ages 8-16 have a TV in their bedroom.
  • The average American child sees 200,000 violent acts on TV by age 18.
  • The average American youth spends 900 hours in school & 1,023 hours watching TV each year.
  • The average American sees 2 million TV commercials by age 65.
  • 45% of parents say that if they have something important to do, they are likely to use the TV to
    occupy their child.
  • Children spend a daily average of 4 hours and 40 minutes in front of a screen - 2 1/2 hours
    of which are spent watching television.
  • 97% of American children ages 6 & under own products based on characters from TV shows or movies.
  • Children ages 2-7 watch television alone and unsupervised 81% of the time.
  • Nearly 3 out of 4 teens say that the portrayal of sex on TV influences the sexual behavior
    of kids their age. 1 in 4 admits it influences their own behavior.
***

Clearly media plays a HUGE part in our life, and so many people are blissfully or willfully ignorant of the part that media, socialization and normalization play in who we are, why we do what we do, and ultimately what we find attractive and what we spend our money on. That's just about everything, so it's worth learning about.

Link to the MEF handouts: Handouts & Articles | Media Education Foundation

My favorite;

How to be a Critical Media Viewer:
  1. 1. Remember that all media images and messages are constructions. Ads and other media messages have been carefully crafted with the intent to send a
    very specific message.
  2. Question why certain messages are consistently present in mainstream media and why others are absent.
  3. Look closely at the appearance of media images: the colors, the editing, the camera angles, the appearance of the people (are they young and happy?), the location, and the sound or type of text.
  4. Compare media images and portrayals of your surrounding environment with your reality. Make a list of the differences so that you are more aware of them.
  5. Investigate the source of the media images you encounter. Who owns the network that your favorite television show is on? What else does that corporation
    own? How does the ownership structure of media affect the news and entertainment we receive?
  6. What other stories about the world exist than those you see in the media? (About relationships, health, peace & war, materialism, gender, finances, violence,
    globalization, sex, love, etc.)
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mixedmedia View Post
And I can stand behind that sequence of events.
Sorry, but this phrase is a remark that you understand or there is another significance?
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Raghnar -ITA- View Post
Sorry, but this phrase is a remark of "I follow you" or there is another significance?
I agree with what you wrote.
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Old 10-02-2009, 07:36 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Clearly this is all boils down to who's to blame? If the media and us are interacting, is it their fault because they're bad, or our fault that we can't resist it? I personally believe every person is a rational being responsible for themselves, corresponding with th latter answer.
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:17 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mixedmedia View Post
I agree with what you wrote.
thank you. Sorry for this trivial questions but translate metaphoric phrase of other languages isn't easy at all
In Italian "Be behind somebody" metaphorically means 1- understand what he's saying 2- trying to seduce

Jinn where you've taken this statics? They're very striking!
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Old 10-02-2009, 11:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I personally believe every person is a rational being responsible for themselves
well, clearly every person isn't rational, but I do agree, ideally everyone should be responsible for themselves. this is an ideal, but we live in reality. ideally everyone could start on a level playing field and could be expected to have enough education to comprehend the storm of conflicting media coming at them. but in reality vast amounts of the public are born into economic and intellectual squalor.

further, 'the media' is a small group of people communicating on mass to the country(s) and I just don't see the concept of individual responsibility being on 'the masses' so much as these individual media pundits such as Glen Beck or Rush not to mention the owners like Rupert Murdoch. they all have agendas and it's to all of their advantage to keep the masses doing and thinking what they want.

if I were to throw rocks at a murder of crows I know, most if not all of them would fly off, feeling threatened. even though I know crows are very smart. if you want the sheep to go right, bark at their left. it may be sad to think that humanity for all it's brain power can't be controlled so easily but they can and are.

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Propaganda must always address itself to the broad masses of the people. All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed. The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the national masses. The broad masses of the people are not made up of diplomats or professors of public jurisprudence nor simply of persons who are able to form reasoned judgment in given cases, but a vacillating crowd of human children who are constantly wavering between one idea and another. The great majority of a nation is so feminine in its character and outlook that its thought and conduct are ruled by sentiment rather than by sober reasoning. This sentiment, however, is not complex, but simple and consistent. It is not highly differentiated, but has only the negative and positive notions of love and hatred, right and wrong, truth and falsehood
Quote:
Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side. The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward.

NPR mentioned quite a while back the death toll in Iraq had met the 1000,000 mark but I have NEVER heard that being addressed on any commercial news ( granted I may have missed it if it was)
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