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Old 04-13-2005, 02:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
AfterBurn's Avatar
Enlightenment and Thinking

please post your comments/thoughts on this, I'm really looking forward to them.

by: coax (of http://www.c0ax.org)

1. You have to understand your position in the universe.
2. You have to realize that you are a system inside a closed system, and ponder the consequences of this.
3. You have to, at all times, be prepared to learn something new about the closed system you are in.
4. You have to realize the value of your own, and others, life.
5. You have to know your own defense mechanism and emotions, you also have to learn how you think, and why you react to certain situations the way you do.
6. You have to systemically be honest with yourself, if you get a feeling inside telling you that you are lying to yourself, ignore it, and say to yourself "i'm lying to myself, what is the truth and why am I lying?"

7. Your personality must be of such that you never assume anything. You only believe in hard physical evidence.
8. You have to focus on learning all the universal axioms of the universe, and understand them to the best of your abilities.
9. If you make a mistake, or you "thought something" that wasn't true, or you later found out wasn't true, you broke rule #7, don't do this too often.
10. Finding the universal truth of a subjective situation like if you disagree with your girlfriend if she wants to go out and you don't, then the easiest way is to find a compromise.
11. In tail with rule 10, never be anyones bitch. Stand up for what you believe in.

Knowledge and Intelligence.
1. Everything is a learning process, as such, you can never know the axiom right away.
2. Seeing the world as it is, and not as it is perceived, is accomplished through trial and error. First you analyze the situation, and bring up all the facts you know you have. Then you analyze these facts(why/where/what), when you reach a solution that fits the real world most precise, you can call it your new axiom.
3. You can never see the world truly objectively, because you yourself are a slave to the closed system, your knowledge can only reach 99.9% of the truth.
4. Once a person reaches 99.9% he has reached God status in the closed system, and no longer has anything to learn about it.

Predictions and Foresight
1. Another path to reaching the objective truth of a situation or thing, is to think your way to it. Using your intelligence you can predict and foresee, without factual knowledge, why and how something works, and what its function is in the closed system.

2. Once you have a theory on how something works, NEVER EVER act upon it, and under no circumstance believe it to be the truth.

3. Now you can begin the process of gaining knowledge about it.

People, Psychology and Society

1. A part of becoming enlightened, isn't just gaining knowledge and knowing everything, it's also learning how to appreciate other people, the world around you, and learning how to pleasure your 5 senses and your brain in the best ways possible.

2. The brain is capable of some great atmospheres, pleasures and thoughts, which is why you need to learn these.

3. You will no doubt end up in an argument with someone, about some things you care about. Your views will harshly contrast the other person views, and thus both parties feel they are right.
The best thing to do is this situation, is to try to understand the other persons view up to 99.9%.
When you have done this you must use your intelligence to compute the most rational solution.

Once you have done this, you must either 1. Realize that you are right in your argument, if so, you must explain to him, the best you can, why he is wrong and you are correct, you must make him hunderstand both your view and his view, and that you have been considerate of how he sees things.

or 2. Realize that the only solution is a compromise, if so, explain to him all the reasons and views, presenting the most objective and accurate view taking his history, your history and the history of the situation into account.

or 3. Realize that HE is correct, and you were wrong. This is the hardest solution for many people, but it is also imperative that you are honest with yourself, otherwise you will waste your time arguing about something you could've had the solution to ages ago, had you put your feelings aside to analyze the situation..

Also, feel free to spend some time asking the other person why he think hes correct, and ask him why he feels the way he does, this is to further enhance your objective view of the situation. Once you feel you have reached a reasonable amount of knowledge to analyze the sitatuion, go ahed and do so.

4. "Do I really need other people? If I'm so smart and enlightened, why do I need them? I should be inventing stuff instead! Other people are stupid!"
These are the common misconceptions of an enlightened neophyte.

First you must realize that there are many areas in this world, where other people have more knowledge than you. These people deserve your respect, because they know more than you.

5. People who you feel are below you, that don't understand, you have 2 possibilities, either 1. Try to teach them your ways or 2. Don't associate with them.

6. If you like a person for how he is, but you feel he is way below you and doesn't understand, you need to focus on the positive parts about him. There is obviously a reason you like him, so he deserves your respect simply because of that. As such, NEVER assume that you are above another person, unless he proves himself to be through continous stupidity.

7. People are people, as they say. One thing you DONT want to do is getting involved with someone you don't like or you feel don't understand.
You have nothing to prove to other people, realize this and other people will start to respect you based on how you act and how you talk.

8. If you are truly enlightened, you will let your words speak for themselves, you will never try to gain respect consciously, you will find yourself with others respect automatically.

9. Learn to appreciate music, art and literature in a creative way. Listen to your emotions.
Part of it is realizing that alot of people spent alot of time in the history of the earth, making something they were passionate about, be it music, art or literature. It is your objective to get into the mindset of these people, and understand what they were trying to convey and accomplish, and in doing so understanding a little bit more about the universe.

10. Learning the processes of the physical world, and the world of technology, is very important, but it's also very important to learn psychology, and the internal world.

The more peoples minds and mindstates you have experienced and understood yourself, the more of an objective solution can you find to what you, yourself, wants to be and do.

11. Never reject another persons lifestyle without fully understanding it first. If you think all christians are dumb because they believe in god, read the bible, do some prayers, go to church, THEN when you have the proper experience to reject it, do so.
Sometimes you may be surprised at what some people have to offer.


12. Generally you don't want any religions, much less any organized ones.
The only religion you belive in is "I am here on earth to explore the world and enjoy myself in doing so."

And that ladies and gentlemen, is all there is to it.

by: me

Another important thing to realize also is that most of what we do/think is out of our control even though we don't realize this. Our brain is made to AUTOMATICALLY react to certain situations/events, we have mechanisms in our brain that automatically do this for us and although we think we chose to do this it's not true. For example, when men (non gay) look at a hot naked women we are automatically turned on by it and there's nothing you can do about that. Also another great example is the study done a while ago about ovulation and sex which states that women are most horny when they are just beginning their period but they are actually unaware of this, it's an automatic reaction caused by hormone changes etc. As far as the universe goes, I think it's just a chunk of something greater, you can always go deeper into something, and the whole universe is just a segment of a greater structure/reality/dimension. So the whole point is that just because we think some things are the way they are it could be just your brain tricking you into believeing that and we 'decide' what those things/philosophies are based on many factors such as your environment, mood, the music you listen to, the people you interact with, the drugs you consume etc. THINGS ARE NOT THE WAY THEY SEEM.
smoking weed everyday keeps the doctor away
AfterBurn is offline  
Old 04-13-2005, 09:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
Location: Sacramento
i am a bit confused as to what exactly this is.......... a list of axioms, nietzsche style? suggestions and meditations? maybe im a bit slow.

also, the problem that occurs to me is simply this: things are not the way they seem. your final point sums my objections to the whole list quite eloquently. as soon as we think we know somehting about anything, the blinding truth that we have no idea invariably smacks us upside the head.

from a biological standpoint, we are basically bags of water and hormones, so a change in hormone levels for a woman change physical sexual preparedness, but anyone who has been with a woman will tell you that if she isnt into it with her brain too, it probably isnt going to happen. and btw, there are plenty of "normal" men who simply are not instantly sexually aroused by the sight of a naked woman. our sexual scripts (what we like, how, when, with who) is not inherent to us as humans. as part of our socialization as children, we learn what is acceptable and unacceptable based on societally mediated norms and customs. what is right for you or me is completely abhorrant for someone in another nation.
anyway, ive rambled for long enough. let me know what u think, and im sure ill add more later
Food for thought.
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Old 04-14-2005, 02:16 AM   #3 (permalink)
Location: Grey Britain
I'm sure lots of us have lots of thoughts on lots of these statements, but there are a few too many to make any kind of structured thread from, especially without any indication of direction. Perhaps this would be better off split into several threads.
"No one was behaving from very Buddhist motives. Then, thought Pigsy, he was hardly a Buddha, nor was he a monkey. Presently, he was a pig spirit changed into a little girl pretending to be a little boy to be offered to a water monster. It was all very simple to a pig spirit."
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Old 04-14-2005, 06:22 AM   #4 (permalink)
has a plan
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Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere
I would agree about splitting it into separate areas of discussion. Just the sheer bulk of it allows arguments. I for one argue about the rules of prediction and it's conflict with never assume. If nothing is to be regarded as an adament truth, only 99.9% can be obtained, then how can one make estimated predictions from incomplete understandings? Knowledge is as it says a process of "trial and error," but then this conflicts with do not act upon these believed axioms.

I am one for make a good guess and see if it is right. How one carries failure or success is what gains respect of one for me. It is the courage of character shown when attempts are made, success gained, or losses substained that truly show a human. I believe it was Abraham Lincoln who stated, and I am paraphrasing, "If you want to test a man's character, give him power."

Last edited by Hain; 04-14-2005 at 07:19 AM.. Reason: My 2
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Old 04-14-2005, 10:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
Very very interesting - A list like this shows how much you've thought things through, and (I think) come to reasonable, rational and well constructed ideas and values about the world.

Now all you have to do is live by them...
Old 04-14-2005, 10:43 AM   #6 (permalink)
Sky Piercer
CSflim's Avatar
Location: Ireland
Originally Posted by AfterBurn
2. Once you have a theory on how something works, NEVER EVER act upon it, and under no circumstance believe it to be the truth. .
You're going to starve to death quite rapidly if you take this to heart.
It's only a theory that any particular food isn't posionous.
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
Getting Clearer
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Location: with spirit
I love your list... it's like a checklist for how I aspire to live.

The problem for me is that there are not many people who think these things are important, or they don't care to see the sense in aspiring for this outlook - even when it may improve their situations or outlook. (This is a generalised statement, but I've come to the TFP as I am an alien in my community because I think about these things in great length and try to apply it my own life, so from my perspective this generalised statment is generally accurate).

Why is it that only a few people find this sort of thing valuable?
To those who wander but who are not lost...

~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.
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Old 04-15-2005, 01:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
The reason only a few people find these values important is that society currently does not encourage one to aspire to live by these principles. No reward = no motivation for most people, but then again if there was reward people would just be faking living by these principles to achieve reward. I have thought along very similar lines and attempt to live my life by most of these principles. This is extremely well written and well thought out.
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Old 04-17-2005, 06:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
Getting Clearer
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Location: with spirit
It would seem that society is geared to keep us blissfully unaware, too busy trying to keep up, fight this, get that... I'm sure there are times when I feel that the world is full of puppets. In that sense this outlook is not rewarding, but rather frustrating. *sigh*
To those who wander but who are not lost...

~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.
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enlightenment, thinking

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