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Old 05-29-2003, 04:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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perception of time?

I have been recently considering the fact that our only perception of time is based solely on motion and speed... I want to do research now into this but I wanted to know what you think.

If everything (including ourselves) began moving faster, would we experience time differently?
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Old 05-29-2003, 06:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Time is a measurement of "action"
not interaction/reaction...which is "probability"
or not inaction which is "inertia"

All of which are dimensions we live within.

Time can go either way, positive or negative, as we see in the mathematics of anti-matter.
However, we only see Time as "one-way", not because it acts that way,
but because of the Laws of Entropy.
which do NOT go backwards,
it doesn't matter whether you are matter or anti-matter.

This fact alone would make Time Travel difficult,
much less taking into account the fact that everything including our world and galaxy are moving too.

And any warp that "seems" to go back in time,
would be incorrect because,
that would be only perception.
A warp might bring you to an area of space, where light hasn't reached from your starting point,
making it seem you were viewing from the past.
but even if you moved back to the original area instantly.
That place would still be in the "future" or "present".

This is an illusion portrayed by many taking the numbers to the extreme, and leaving out other factors.

It's a nice dream but more needs to be considered.

Last edited by rogue49; 05-29-2003 at 06:27 PM..
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Old 05-29-2003, 06:52 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Our perception of time, is...perceptual, isn't it?

During rushes of adrenaline, such as moments of danger, we perceive time as slowing down, because our internal processes are speeded up. Likewise during various brain states or under the influence of drugs, our perception of time is variable.

During sleep and dreams our perception of time is far different than our waking perception.

Interestingly also, one's perception of time varies based on age.

I find all these perceptual experiences of time more interesting than what "time" itself may or may not be - mainly because I can actually experience them!
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Old 05-29-2003, 06:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Einstein theorized that time and speed are related in that as one approaches the speed of light, time slows down until all time stops at the speed of light.

If we were able to design a spaceship that travels close to the speed of light, it would enable us to travel great distances. Hundreds of years would pass here on earth while only a decade or two may pass on the spaceship
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Old 05-29-2003, 07:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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There is no such thing as time. It is something that humans invented to make sure they could meet at the same place simultaneously. There is decay of atoms, erosion of the earth, stars run out of gas, and humans die, but none of these things prove that time exists.
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Old 05-29-2003, 07:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by queedo
There is no such thing as time. It is something that humans invented to make sure they could meet at the same place simultaneously. There is decay of atoms, erosion of the earth, stars run out of gas, and humans die, but none of these things prove that time exists.
Perhaps a better description is timeLINE?
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Old 05-30-2003, 07:36 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I completely agree with ART.

Time is based on our perception of it.
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Old 05-30-2003, 08:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I dont agree with Art or Memalvada. Perception of time is simply 'perception' of time. Time itself doesnt change. Yes you will perceive time to pass quickly when you are on a rollercoaster . . and to pass slowly in a Dentist waiting Room . . . . . . but that is just your personal perception. When you are in the Dentist someone is on a rollercoaster . . . . 30 minutes is just 30 minutes.

I struck me a while ago that it is not possible to measure time without expending energy (a clock and watch need wound up . . .or a battery . . . . the sun needs to move in the sky . . . . . . drips of water need to fall . . 'something' needs to expend energy with a reliable steady frequency to count time. I supppose time would stand still if nothing moved . . . . not a planet . . not an atom . . even electrons would have to freeze. In such a state everything would be frozen in time . . there would have to be no energy anywhere for time to stop. So I propose that time is simply an observation of energy being expended.
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Yes, interesting. Thanks.

The Thread Title and the starting post are focused on perception.
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Old 05-30-2003, 10:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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No one answered my question directly... I am not talking about perception itself... I mean if everything began to move faster would our bodies begin to assume time is as well? Would we perceive it as going faster? I am only assuming that the world speeds up, not asking how we perceive time. Basically I feel that my only proof that time is moving is objects moving around me. If everything just STOPPED, I would think time has stopped.
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Old 05-31-2003, 07:06 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Not sure what you are asking viveleroi0 . . . . . . . 'everything' can't move faster . . movement is relative to something not moving . . . so if you are moving faster its only against the backdrop of your environment 'not moving' . . or vice versa.
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Old 05-31-2003, 07:11 AM   #12 (permalink)
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More interseting to me is how mammals are all supposed to have the same number of heartbeats (however many milion it is I cant remember) . . anyway, the theory being that a hummingbird or a mouse or something small like that burns up its allocation of heartbeats quite quickly, whilst humans and elephants have a slow heart rate and therefore usually spin things out for over 70 years or more.

If you swipe your hand quickly to swat a fly . . . . . . the fly is living in a much faster time-frame . . so it yawns and perceives your hand to be moving very slowy down towards it . . like in slow motion . . it waits till the last minute and then takes off. So perception of a 'lifetime' varies from animal to animal . . . . . . regardless of the actual time that its lifetime takes. I suppose its a bit like if someone said you only had 1 month to live . . . you would go nuts and live life at an incredible rate.
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Old 05-31-2003, 07:24 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Not even gonna touch this discussion, but if you are interested in theorizing about this type of thing you might do well to check out Einstein's Dreams by Alan Lightman....
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Old 05-31-2003, 07:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
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viveleroi0, I believe the preponderance of the perceptualists, philosophers, and scientists who responded here agreed - time is relative...
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Old 06-01-2003, 07:43 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Just to throw this out there - does relative mean non-existant or inconsequential? If everyone has a different perception of the same thing (for instance the example that while you are in the dentist's office someone else is on a roller coaster) how meaningful can a comparison be if you don't acknowledge that it is the perception that is different, not the object?

I am not much of a relativist, so I believe that time is an objective constant that can be percieved with varying degrees of correctness. Two points about this:

1) The idea of a constant that changes is not so unfamiliar. What you have to consider is the conditions surrounding your constant. For instance, the boiling point of water is a constant - given a constant pressure (which in our experience translates to altitude). At a higher air pressure, the boiling point for is higher. This boiling point is a characteristic of water which is objectively measurable and does not change. However if the conditions in which the object (water) exist change, so does the object's response. If one is not sensitive to the surrounding factors, it may seem that the characteristic being measured is not constant, when in fact it is. This may go some of the distance toward explaining the different rate of time passage encountered in Einstein's theories.

2) Many people refer to, without consideration of its nature, their "sense of time". Most of us don't give much thought to it, because we don't use it for anything much more important than to estimate how long our brownies have been in the oven. However, musicians (especially classically trained ones) put an enormous amount of effort into understanding the perception of time and honing their ability to maintain sense of time.

A musician's sense of time (which is not the same as rhythm) is regulated by their "inner pulse". The name notwithstanding, it actually has nothing to do with your heartbeat. This is a difficult lesson to learn, as the heart rate is extremely variable in the exact circumstance that a sense of time is needed - performance. The bodily functions are all seperate from the mind's perception of time in a musical sense. Anyway, we have different abilities to maintain an accurate inner pulse, not to mention doing it while concentrating on something else. But, it is a sense can be developed through practice. None of us have a completely accurate sense of time, and so we have developed tools to help us, such as the metronome.

In a performance, an accurate sense of time must be established by the the performer - even in a symphony concert when the performer includes over one hundred people on stage. The tempo (speed of the division of time) can change, but this change must be regulated in reference to some factor - the inner pulse. Now, most performers have tuned their sense of time well beyond that of the audience, but I think that goes toward the ability to generate an accurate pulse, not percieve it. I don't have to have sense of time of Yo-yo Ma to know a steady beat when I hear it. I do have to have his sense of time to generate it. The reason for this lies in the fact that my generation is internal.

All of this may be beside the points made above, but I think it is interesting that so many are willing to say that time is relative when there is an entire area of art that is devoted to the idea that this isn't so. A distinction should be made as to whether it is the object (time) that is relative or the subject (the perception). I would say that the perception of time is relative. Because of this, it is possible to learn to perceive more accurately.

Now you guys have made me go and think during summer vacation. Thanks a lot!

i remain,
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Old 06-01-2003, 08:56 AM   #16 (permalink)
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relative means something exists in relation to something else.
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Old 06-01-2003, 09:13 AM   #17 (permalink)
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get the book Time Warps, String Edits and Macromolecules by david sankhoff. talks about the problem of recognizing related sequences, which seems to be the question at hand.
i myself disagree with time travel, but einstein stated that time is like a curved hill where if you look behid you, you can't sees the past or if in front the future. if we could achieve "e=mc2", than time would be more like a plateau. einstein claimed he reached this "plateau", and said that for every 10 minutes of sleep his contained body related it to 60 minutes. i dont think i am helping you with this subject, and after looking at these replied posts, i feel like a definite rookie.
time, or transient motion, is def. some form, and our interpertation of it can vary.
a personal question that has bothered me if anyone could help me out: is our perception of time varied depending on weather we caused the initial push of energy/motion setting of time?
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Old 06-01-2003, 11:57 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Very interesting post from Ubertuber. It would seem that everyone is more or less agreeing that human perception is the random factor . . and that time is uniform and ticks along to the 'average' perception of all 6 billion of us. Some of us perceiving time to racing . . others perceiving it to drag . . but we all set our watches to the average perception whch is pretty constant.
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