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Old 09-21-2005, 03:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
Location: South Florida
What is patriotism and is it Dead?

Okay I posed the question now here is my answer. Patriotism is (to me) a love for ones country (yes Canada is a country) despite whoever may be in charge and to fight for what it stands for and if necessary die for it. I can say that I do not believe that patriotism is totally dead but it has been redfined. I no where near as philosophical as everybody else on here but I have a little bit of a brain and I can proudly say that I am a patriot. i would give my life for all you to have this wonderful freedom. To live in this country despite bush. I love my country and i was just curious what everybody out there thinks. probably all the opposite of me but that is the beauty of forums. Please don't bash me too hard i don't want to get to heated. I can appreciate anybodies opinion and I appreciate the same from all of you. BTW I was j/K about the canada thing I love polar bears and hockey too.
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Old 09-21-2005, 03:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
Teufel Hunden's Freundin
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Location: Westminster, CO
I feel the same way about the USA. I may not like everything that goes on it, but I love my country as a whole and I also would die to defend it. I pretty much define it the same way you do.
Teg yw edrych tuag adref.
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Old 09-21-2005, 04:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
<Insert wise statement here>
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Location: Hell if I know
Am I patriot? No. I think that the beliefs and standard the U.S. was based upon were good, but that they were not followed through with and the people in charge allowed too many of their own personal views to guide them when it came to social laws. Would I die to defend this country itself? No. Would I die fighting for this country in order to protect my friends and family? I wouldn't like to, but I'd take the risk and I'd prefer to make a whole lot of the other guys die for their country first.

Patriotism is a love of one's country and what it stands for. Is it dead? No, it's just that now many people are more socially able to display a non-patriotic view point and express displeasure with the government if they feel it is doing something wrong. Way back when, it was considered socially unacceptable to not support the government, especially in a time of war.
Apathy: The best outlook this side of I don't give a damn.
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Old 09-21-2005, 08:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
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The Roman empire was not destroyed by external threats but from the inside which weakened it to the point that the external threats could not be matched.

Perhaps this is common trait of all nations when they become powerful and rich. The people take it for granted and only care how they are personally effected. Unity of purpose and vision is lost and replaced by squabbling and infighting while the enemies gather in strength.

Sounds kind of familiar to me, but the US isn't at this point yet, and enough care about the future of the nation to die for its protection beyond only protecting their friends and family.
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.
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Old 09-22-2005, 08:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
Location: South Florida
I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it; I may not like the way you wish to live, but injure no other and I will defend to the death your right to live however you wish. However, this does not mean that I will not question that which you may say or do, for your words, your actions, your assumptions, or your reasons may be of interest to me, if only because I am curious. - Exidor
I agree
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Old 09-22-2005, 08:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
Getting it.
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Location: Lion City
I've said it before... I think an emotional attachment to something as abstract as a nation is not a good thing.
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
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Old 09-22-2005, 09:37 AM   #7 (permalink)
Location: South Florida
Originally Posted by Charlatan
I've said it before... I think an emotional attachment to something as abstract as a nation is not a good thing.
I am very proud of where I am from and would rather live here than anywhere else and will protect my way of life as well as your way of life. If people had not had an emotional attachment to something as abstract as a nation during WWII we would all speak japanese or german or both and Bush certainly wouldn't be president, but i don't really see that as a downside.
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Old 09-22-2005, 09:46 AM   #8 (permalink)
Getting it.
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Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
I don't think defense of a nation or other nations need stem from an emotional response.

A reasoned and rational understanding of your relationship to the larger community is, too me, much more valuable and less likely to dissappoint than an emotional response.

To invest emotionally in a nation means you are far more suceptable to being manipulated (for good or bad).
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
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Old 09-22-2005, 09:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Once again this is to the OP and Iv yet to read the other comments.

Am I a patriot? No and I will never be a patriot.

I do enjoy the freedom, the safety, and ideals I am permitted to have in this country.

At least I donít believe anyone could ever stop me from being that way with or without this country, they can kill me for it in other countries but that doesnít mean they can take it away.

The idea of what a patriot is and does is very noble; I loved the move patriot staring Mel Gibson very much.

But there is no patriotism left in the United States today.

And as the main reason for me not being able to be a patriot in the United States is in order for me to be a patriot I would have to agree at least in some way what we do, and I do not.

As far as I am concerned the United States is just another tyranny in the world of Tyrants, and I have learned to live with it and not fight for it.

If they want to kick me out for it thatís fine with me, Iíll move to Scotland Iíve always wanted to go there, if they want to throw me in jail and fine me a lot of money then they will have to do that for two reasons 1. My religion does not permit me nor would I ever want to hold a gun or kill anyone in such a manner. 2. I believe all the wars we have been in or the battles we have fought since I was born have been started, created, or instigated by our own actions, and if you ask me we got what we deserved.

Not as individuals I morn as anyone else would for the 9/11 and the people dying now, but its our countries fault those things happened. Of course that is my opinion, I could be wrong.
A trees touch could be so soft it could steal you from reality.
A winds whisper could be so fierce it could steal your life away.
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Old 09-23-2005, 10:24 AM   #10 (permalink)
Location: South Florida
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I beginning to feel that I am the only one who feels the way I do.
I value everybodies opinion whether or not I agree with it.
I also think that is the best part of this forum. Its awesome. Not like other where everybody just argues and nothing really gets said. thanks for posting everyone
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Old 09-23-2005, 11:15 AM   #11 (permalink)
lost and found
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Location: Berkeley
I ascribe to George Bernard Shaw's outlook: "Patriotism is the conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."

The guy's full of great quotes. Some additional relevant bits:

"Democracy is a system ensuring that the people are governed no better than they deserve."

"Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."

But Shaw was a patriot. Not of an individual nation, but of people in general:

"This is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one, the being a force of nature, instead of a selfish, feverish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy. I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole community, and it is my privilege to do for it whatever I can. I want to be thoroughly used up when I die, for the harder I work, the more I live. I rejoice in life for its own sake. Life is no brief candle to me, it is a sort of splendid torch which I've got a hold of for the moment, and I want to make it burn as brightly as possible before handing it on to future generations."
"The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine
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Old 09-23-2005, 12:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
As a so called 'pinko commie' type it may surprise you to know that it's acceptable from this view to be proud of the country you were born and live in and it's good achievements and heritage.
However the danger of Patriotism is to believe that it is your country and you must defend it at all costs and attack those who oppose your country's aims.

Oh dear. Another victim of the rich and powerful who are so glad that lots of 'little 'people are so willing to fight and die for the rich people once again.
Human beings : who could ever claim to like them all?
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Old 09-23-2005, 02:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
<3 TFP
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*looks at his icon*


Yup, I guess I'm a patriot!
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dead, patriotism

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