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Old 06-01-2003, 12:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Religious Tolerance?

I am attempting to learn more here . . so forgive my ignorance . . but can anyone enlighten me (Lebell?)
Which of the many religions are tolerant (maybe tolerant isn't the right word - acceptance?) to the existance of other religions, and which are single-minded and deny all others?

I am using the BBtB concept of religion here to include atheists . . so I will start with them on the list : -

Atheists = Tolerant (ie. accept the existance of all religions).
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Old 06-01-2003, 12:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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not many tolerate. Religion makes people want to have pissing contests.

I tolerate all religions that do not harm life of unwilling anything.

True Christians are taught to tolerate all, but are normally taught that by hypocrits who say 'you know, its okay to hate.... if you hate what i hate.'

from what i can think of right now, none tolerant religions....

Christianity, Muslim, Hindu (I believe).

Bhuddism, i believe, has great tolerance.

wish my memory were better.
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Old 06-01-2003, 01:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Going solely from my own experience, I think that Buddhists are the most tolerant. I asked a Buddhist priest about this and he told me that you could continue to believe whatever you currently believe and still be Buddhist.

Among the most intolerant, I would have to include the Muslims. Not many religions actively kill their members for joining another religion. Christians have done that sort of nonsense in the past but I'm not aware of any that currently believe that way.

To expand, at least to Muslims, Jews and Christians are still recognized as viable religions (just not enlightened yet.)

Among the Christian religions, I know that to a Jehovah's Witness, if you aren't one of them, you're headed to the fire.

Of course, all humans have the capability of fanaticism, religious or not.
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Last edited by Lebell; 06-01-2003 at 01:23 PM..
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Old 06-01-2003, 02:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell
Going solely from my own experience, I think that Buddhists are the most tolerant. I asked a Buddhist priest about this and he told me that you could continue to believe whatever you currently believe and still be Buddhist.

Not a very enlightened monk. So you can believe in Karma & (a form of) reincarnation......and believe in judgment after death?
That's the first question that comes to mind, though, living in Buddhist family I can think of many other differences.
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Old 06-01-2003, 03:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I feel gulty for not knowing enough about religions generally . . particularly as I am an atheist and quick to criticise them. Bhuddists sound interesting . . . what was the religion associated with the seventies tv series 'Kung Fu' starring David Carradine . . . was he Buddhist?
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Old 06-01-2003, 04:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally posted by duckznutz
I feel gulty for not knowing enough about religions generally . . particularly as I am an atheist and quick to criticise them. Bhuddists sound interesting . . . what was the religion associated with the seventies tv series 'Kung Fu' starring David Carradine . . . was he Buddhist?
You should know your enemy

Besides, you'll have a greater understanding of the person following that particular faith.
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Old 06-01-2003, 04:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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personally, I like WhoaitsZ' answer.
IMO "religious tolerance" is an oxymoron.
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Old 06-01-2003, 05:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Simple_Min
Not a very enlightened monk. So you can believe in Karma & (a form of) reincarnation......and believe in judgment after death?
That's the first question that comes to mind, though, living in Buddhist family I can think of many other differences.
Well,

I don't think a few lines on a bulletin board does the conversation I had justice.

He was very enlightened.
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Last edited by Lebell; 06-02-2003 at 09:33 AM..
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Old 06-01-2003, 09:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by ARTelevision
personally, I like WhoaitsZ' answer.
IMO "religious tolerance" is an oxymoron.
I have to agree, mostly. But of the big three (in the western world that is), Judaism, Christianity, and Muslim, I would have to argue that Muslims have historically been the most tolerant. Qur'an 2:56 There shall be no compulsion in (acceptance of) the religion. I should note that I am a militant agnostic. I dont know and neither do you.
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Old 06-02-2003, 09:41 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Religious Tolerance?

Quote:
Originally posted by duckznutz
Atheists = Tolerant (ie. accept the existance of all religions).
I do have to argue with that. I have met many atheists that relentlessly attack other religions. I mean they rarely go the muslim or early christanity way and go off and kill non atheists. But I have heard many an unkind word spoken by an atheist about religion.

Well it goes to the core of what a religion is. A way to say "I am right and you are wrong" Religious tolorence IS a bit of an oxymoron. The ones the come closest though would be Buddhist and the often over looked Judiasm. Which many of them (atleast the more liberal ones) don't think you even have to be a Jew to go to heaven. Just have to be a good person. They also do not belive in hell which is a plus.
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Old 06-02-2003, 01:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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You are right BBtb . . . a lot of atheists are on a 'crusade' to attack and undermine religion, and there is probably an equal number of christians and other religious people who actively campaign and try to 'spread the word' to non-believers. But thinking about it . . . i have not noticed any atheists outside shopping malls with a guitar and a microphone trying to argue their case.

I guess there are a lot of people who are neither religious nor actively atheist, and they just ar too lazy to be bothered even having strong beliefs (I hope I am not insulting the 'apathetics' by saying that - but then they wouldnt be on here in the first place).
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Old 06-02-2003, 03:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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It seems that the larger the religion is, the more intolerant it is. Smaller religions USUALLY have more tolerance.
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Old 06-02-2003, 03:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by duckznutz
. . . i have not noticed any atheists outside shopping malls with a guitar and a microphone trying to argue their case.

???

Just out of curiosity, what malls do you shop at, duckznutz??
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Old 06-02-2003, 03:21 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhoaitsZ

Bhuddism, i believe, has great tolerance.
This was because Sidartha Guatama (am I right) or buddah, originaly wanted the ideology to be a philosophy, not a religion, and therfore acceptable in all religions, and accepting of all religions.

Damn, I didn't think I would ever use that HS World History bullshit...
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Old 06-02-2003, 04:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally posted by krwlz
I didn't think I would ever use that HS World History bullshit...
Dude, you have no idea how big a history buff I am. The only thing I am more of is a philosophy buff. Just wanted to add that.
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Old 06-02-2003, 04:36 PM   #16 (permalink)
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krwlz

Sorta.

Sidhartha Gautama, THE Buddah, wasn't trying to create a religion, he was attempting to build a philosophy that addressed suffering, it's source, and how to escape it.
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Last edited by Lebell; 06-02-2003 at 04:38 PM..
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Old 06-02-2003, 05:34 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Wiccans believe that all religions are essentially the same, so they're in theory pretty tolerant. It's a damn shame that the door doesn't swing both ways, though.
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Old 06-02-2003, 11:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Hindus believe that there are many paths of virtue, and have no problem with others following the path they want. There's no jealous God and nothing about other religions being false.
And don't confuse the recent problems in India with a dogmatic intolerance, they're the result of a wide range of factors. Hinduism in India has always been highly tolerant of religions in its midst. The Zoroastrians, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Jains, Sikhs, Buddhists all lived for centuries within the Hindu majority.
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Old 06-04-2003, 11:43 AM   #19 (permalink)
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It's not so much the religion, I think, as it is the practitioner. People have the nasty little ability to pervert anything that they come into contact with. You will find rabid fundamentalists in pretty much any religion.
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Old 06-04-2003, 12:19 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Taking individual personalities out of the equation for a moment . . . . (we can assume that there are nasty atheists as well as nice atheists) . . my original question was intended to identify which faiths co-existed happily with others, and which faiths actively promoted themselves as being the more worthy choice (if not the only choice), and worse still, which faiths actively persecuted others.
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Old 06-04-2003, 12:33 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Yes, Buddists are tolerant to the existence of other religions for sure. Hindus are too. The Wiccan religion is, but I've met a lot of Wiccans who aren't. Atheism isn't a religion, in that it espouses no way of life. So there's nothing in the definition of being an atheist that includes intolerance to other religions. But a lot of atheists got there by way of bad experiences with religion, so many atheists are also religion-phobes.

One religion not mentioned here that you might want to look into (if you're shopping) is secular humanism. Their core principles are:

<i>
A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.

Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.

A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.

A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.

A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.

A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.

A conviction that with reason, an open marketplace of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children. </i>
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Old 06-04-2003, 03:00 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Podmore, you're right in saying that tolerance, for the main part, springs from the practicioner, not the religion itself. I am disappointed to hear that you know intolerant Wiccans, as a central tenet of Wicca is that all gods are one, meaning that as long as people are seeking some kind of spiritual truth, they should be respected.
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Old 06-04-2003, 05:19 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Simple_Min
Not a very enlightened monk. So you can believe in Karma & (a form of) reincarnation......and believe in judgment after death?
Karma is surely a form of judgement after death, based on you karma you are reincarnated ither above or below you currant station... in terms of heaven/hell good karma and bad, things seem some what the same both deal with judgement after death and both have rewards or punishments for good/bad behavior.

As for the question i belive that Buddists are the most tolerent with meny if not most of the religeons (im catagorising hugely here) all having somewhat radical sectors condeming other belief systems(to hell in some cases )

Last edited by Ninja; 06-04-2003 at 05:22 PM..
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Old 06-04-2003, 06:43 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Easytiger
I am disappointed to hear that you know intolerant Wiccans, as a central tenet of Wicca is that all gods are one, meaning that as long as people are seeking some kind of spiritual truth, they should be respected.
Yeah, that's the tenent, but I've known some people who seemed to have been drawn to wicca because it has shock value when they delcare it as their religion, and they want to rub it in the face of the "establishment." They often talk the talk, but take every chance to take potshots at people with more typical religious beliefs.
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Old 06-04-2003, 08:04 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Yes, and they're the Wiccans that annoy me the most. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I am a lifetime practicioner of Wicca from a long family tradition of Wicca- it's not something that I chose for shock value or anything like that. I don't usually even tell people about it, which is in fact one of the traditions of Wicca- practicing your faith quietly. No flowing cloaks or pointy hats for me and mine, thank you very much.
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Old 06-04-2003, 10:50 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Buddists doesn't have to be tolerant and peaceful either.
Look at Sri Lanka. The muslim Tamils had a peaceful struggle for 30 years against Buddist oppression, and when they finally got a Tamil into the government, the Buddist monk who was supposed to bless all new members, pulled up a gun and shot him dead.
This sparked the chaos we can see in Sri Lanka right now.

Islam teaches respect towards all people of the book, meaning Muslims, Jews and Christians.

Christianity accepts nobody into heaven, unless he accepts Jesus as his Saviour.

My cult, on the other hand, accepts everybody. Join now!
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Old 06-05-2003, 02:02 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhoaitsZ
not many tolerate. Religion makes people want to have pissing contests.

I tolerate all religions that do not harm life of unwilling anything.

True Christians are taught to tolerate all, but are normally taught that by hypocrits who say 'you know, its okay to hate.... if you hate what i hate.'

I agree with you... I went to a catholic school for a few years ( ) and in that time I learnt how narrow minded and hypocritical they can be... first they taught me that 'God is a loving God and he accepts everyone' then they taught me that ONLY Christians and Catholics can go to heaven and everyone else, all the other religions will go to hell . Christians definitely don't tolerate other religions (or all the Christians I have talked to), they spend all their time trying to convert people over to their religion with the motive that if they don't 'these people wont be saved'. I'm sure it's all religions that share this... maybe its the only way for their religions to survive.
I believe everyone has their own right to believe in what they wish.. I tolerate religions as long as they do not try to convert me, and let me have my own opinion.
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Old 06-05-2003, 06:41 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally posted by XenuHubbard
Buddists doesn't have to be tolerant and peaceful either.
Look at Sri Lanka. The muslim Tamils had a peaceful struggle for 30 years against Buddist oppression, and when they finally got a Tamil into the government, the Buddist monk who was supposed to bless all new members, pulled up a gun and shot him dead.
If this is so than this man can not call him self a buddist as it is a core belief not to harm/kill eny living thing.
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Old 06-05-2003, 01:23 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Buddists doesn't have to be tolerant and peaceful either.
Look at Sri Lanka. The muslim Tamils had a peaceful struggle for 30 years against Buddist oppression, and when they finally got a Tamil into the government, the Buddist monk who was supposed to bless all new members, pulled up a gun and shot him dead.
This sparked the chaos we can see in Sri Lanka right now.

Islam teaches respect towards all people of the book, meaning Muslims, Jews and Christians.

Christianity accepts nobody into heaven, unless he accepts Jesus as his Saviour.

My cult, on the other hand, accepts everybody. Join now!
Only a minority of Tamils are muslim first of all. Secondly, their struggle was by no means peaceful. And about the Buddhist monk assasinating the Tamil member, you're willing to associate that action with his Buddhism, yet on the Tamil murder of Rajiv Gandhi - no comments??

Your cult, Islam, not only accepts everybody, but in fact often resorted to giving the choice between conversion and death. Hmm. I'd hardly call forced conversion by threat of violence the actions of a tolerant religious group.

You suggest joining Islam because, unlike Christianity, it accepts everybody, but just a line above you say that it teaches respect towards just Christians, Jews, and Muslims.
Which is funny considering that the Muslim world and large parts of the Muslim community seem to absolutely despise both Christians and Jews.
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Old 06-05-2003, 03:21 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Lebell
krwlz

Sorta.

Sidhartha Gautama, THE Buddah, wasn't trying to create a religion, he was attempting to build a philosophy that addressed suffering, it's source, and how to escape it.
Thanks Lebell, I knew I didnt have all the facts quite right, but close enough for me.

On that note, how do you remember that shit!?
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Old 06-06-2003, 06:32 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Judaism is tolerant of all religions, they are separate though:

I believe in Judaism, there are other religions but they are different and i dont believe in them, but if i feel there is some specific thing like Zen or meditation practices of other religions (Buhhdism), then its ok for me to do those things because those are simply helping me with Judaism as it helps monks with Buhhdism.
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Old 06-07-2003, 04:52 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I can't think of a more tolerant religion than Unaversilist/Unitarians. Hell, it's in their doctrine to be tolerant of all religions, so that you may learn from them.

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Old 06-17-2003, 05:21 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Its the people who, without any real evidence, have 'NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER' about their beliefs or value-system that I remain sceptical about. An open mind is a good mind . . . . . .
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Old 06-17-2003, 02:05 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I have found that Unitarians and Polytheists seemed to be more tolerant of different religions than monotheists are.
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Old 06-17-2003, 11:12 PM   #35 (permalink)
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i should put in a kind word for Bahá’Ã_ World Faith...not personally a follower, but a good friend is...and they tend to regard most every faith as a valid manifestation of a relationship with God.

That said, i think it's silly to say "christians" do this, and "jews" do that...every tradition is going to be diverson internally. Dogmatically, some tend towards toleration, but making blanket statements is just unhelpful.

To Artv-By refusing to believe that one can be religious and tolerant, you are probably contributing to the problem. Indeed, it is religious faith in the unity of humankind that often moves people past prejuidice of all sorts. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus"
Galatians 3:28
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Old 06-18-2003, 12:58 AM   #36 (permalink)
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To my understanding . . whilst there are positive aspects of peoples finding unity in a faith (of advantage especially where these peoples are suffering or persecuted) . . . . . . I think the 'problem' with following one religion to the exclusion of others is that one has to follow the specific 'rules' of that religion . . . (and EVERY religion has specific and unique little rules . . almost as a means of defining and uniquely identifying the religion) . . . . and so in following these (almost arbitrary) rules an artifical set of restraints is applied to ones way of life and way of thinking. Inevitably this leads to the religious follower developng a sense that to follow these rules is 'good', and to not follow them is 'less good' (I wont say bad) . . . . . . . The religious follower will naturally develop 'respect' for others who follow the same rules, and hence less respect for others who dont.

Its just the price that has to be paid . . the question is whether the positive aspects of being religious are outweighed by the negative ones? For example, I beleive Muslims are told that wine is good for your health in principal . . . but the associated negatives aspects associated with drinking it outweigh that good . . hence it is 'forbidden'.
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Old 06-18-2003, 02:08 PM   #37 (permalink)
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i'm going to step to the plate for christianity here, but it isn't going to fit well, because I am a theologian, and not a pure philosopher. First, I define religion as man's attempt to either experience the spiritual, or to relate to a god, whether that god be himself, or some other entity. To me, the definition of Christianity (honest to God biblical Christianity, not the watered down, man manipulated version) is Gods reaching to and relating to humans. I say this because christianity requires nothing but faith, faith in Jesus being who he said he was, and faith in his complete act of redemption. All of the rules you have heard about to this point are moot. you don't have to dress a special way, no one has to be an intermediary between you and God, and you don't have to give your money to anyone. Your relationship with God has nothing to do with your conduct, whether it be good or bad. It is all faith. Unfortunately, this goes against the grain completely with those who would use christianity as a means to control others, and actually have no love for anyone but themselves. I'd have to say for the great majority of everyone on the list, everything that they have heard about christianity is wrong. And you probably are saying at this point, well, dude, what makes you think you're right? Good question. I have studied this one long and hard, and when you read the new testament and really look at what Jesus was saying, it was much different than this old time religion that is being pushed on everyone. As for faith in Jesus being the only ticket, I believe that, but I don't say anything about that to people who believe something else. They will either see the love in my life and wonder where it comes from, or they won't, but I am not the judge, and I will not condemn.
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Old 06-18-2003, 03:53 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Good post Ganon . . but you cant just wave away the 'rules' that billions of religious people adhere to so 'religiously' . . . . . . . . the pomp. ceremony, 'procedure' and 'guidelines' are the glue that holds faiths together and the oil in the religious machinery. Whilst philosphers like you can state its a 'personal' thing . . it seems to me that for most people faith is a team game . . and rules are there to be obeyed.
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Old 06-19-2003, 12:38 AM   #39 (permalink)
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For a long time, the Tamil struggle was peaceful.
Right now it is far from peaceful.

I'm not a muslim.

What I wasn't clear enough expressing, was the fact that pretty much any religion can be denounced as intolerant, since there always will be at least one group of people within that twists the rules given into something else.

Islam has zealots such as Al Quaida and quite a few of Shiites.
Christianity has among other groups, the Ku Klux Klan, which is a group with a political agenda backed up by the Bible. If you're not a protestant, you can't join.
Tibet has been peaceful under the current Dalai Lama, but before that it wasn't.

Personally, in the end, the only religions that truly makes me worried are Falun Gong and Scientology.
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Old 06-20-2003, 07:51 AM   #40 (permalink)
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duckznutz, True, two millenia of trappings will be hard to disassemble, but as long as the truth of christianity can be grown in one persons heart, then there is hope that the church as a whole will return to its roots, so to speak, and set aside all of the pomp and ceremony. Some people feel they need the procession and procedure to feel as if they have touched God, and to them I say do as you will. It is a team effort, just like you said, because Jesus said we are one body, with many members, each having its own special role. I really like the fact that I can point to a more "free" way of practicing christianity without having to be judgemental of the way people are doing it now.
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