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Old 08-05-2006, 09:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
Location: bedford, tx
First amendment now subjective

It appears that you only have free speech when it's speech about something the government currently agrees with.


Federal authorities have been investigating a Kirksville man who said on his Web site that killing a Canadian judge would be "an act of patriotism," the Adair County prosecutor said.

Prosecutor Mark Williams said Friday he met with agents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and representatives from the U.S. district attorney's office this week regarding Alex Linder's Web site, the Vanguard News Network.

Federal officials shut down the Web site last week for one day after Linder allegedly made the posting about Federal Court of Canada Justice Konrad W. von Finckenstein and Ottawa lawyer Richard Warman.
Linder told the Kirksville Daily Express that he had not broken any laws.

"I'm here, I'm not in jail and I didn't do anything," he said. "Essentially, you have foreigners messing with our First Amendment rights."

Williams said the FBI would discuss the case with the U.S. attorney's office in St. Louis to decide if any laws were broken, and if so, which ones.

He said federal officials were leading the investigation because it crossed national boundaries. But the U.S. attorney's office would not say if Linder was under investigation.

"We don't confirm the existence of investigations," said Jan Diltz, spokeswoman for the U.S. attorney's office. The FBI also would not comment, said Peter Krusing, spokesman for the FBI in St. Louis.
Now, how many times did an american, on a web site, post something about how Castro, Hussein, or Arafat should be killed and no investigation ever started?

How much further down the slippery slope people?
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
dksuddeth is offline  
Old 08-05-2006, 10:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
Originally Posted by dksuddeth
It appears that you only have free speech when it's speech about something the government currently agrees with.


Now, how many times did an american, on a web site, post something about how Castro, Hussein, or Arafat should be killed and no investigation ever started?

How much further down the slippery slope people?
Linder and his "hate site" are reprehensible, but so are Canada's anti-free speech laws, IMO. Canadians do not enjoy the right of free speech because they concede to judges and certain commissions, their individual right to express themselves as they see fit to do. Linder's "death" comments are still on display. Canadians and Europeans have traded their rights for "protection" from offensive opinions, at the discretion of government officials. Who watches the "watchers"? Link:

Linder should have known that what he did is a different story when he threatened the life of a foreign official who is not officially targeted by the U.S. administration, and unlike a certain mullah, Linder didn't enjoy direct, regular access to the POTUS and his closest advisors, I guess:
"We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability," Robertson said Monday on the Christian Broadcast Network's "The 700 Club."

"We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator," he continued. "It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."...
Anybody recall whether the mullah Robertson was investigated, or whether our law enforcement officials or the FCC, shut down his "Christian Broadcast Network", for a day?

On edit,,,,,it looks like Linder gets a "pass" from "the Donald", himself, if the
U.S. War department czar believes in equal treatment of those making death threats to foreign officials, via electronic media.....
Published: August 24, 2005
Robertson Suggests U.S. Kill Venezuela's Leader

<b>..... "If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it," Mr. Robertson said Monday</b> on his show, "The 700 Club." "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war. And I don't think any oil shipments will stop."

Yesterday Mr. Robertson's statements were denounced by both the State Department and by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. In Caracas, he was criticized by the vice president of Venezuela, and in Havana by President Fidel Castro.

Vice President José Vicente Rangel of Venezuela said: "This is a huge hypocrisy to maintain an antiterrorist line and at the same time have such terrorist statements as these made by Christian preacher Pat Robertson coming from the same country."

Mr. Rumsfeld dismissed Mr. Robertson's remark on assassination, saying: "Certainly it's against the law. Our department doesn't do that type of thing." He added, <b>"Private citizens say all kinds of things all the time."</b>

Sean McCormack, a State Department spokesman, called Mr. Robertson's comments "inappropriate." ......

..........But other conservative Christian organizations remained silent, with <b>leaders at the Traditional Values Coalition, the Family Research Council and the Christian Coalition saying they were too busy to comment.........</b>

<b>....... The Rev. Jesse Jackson called for the Federal Communications Commission to investigate, just as it did when Janet Jackson's breast was exposed in the Super Bowl broadcast in 2004. "This is even more threatening to hemispheric stability than the flash of a breast on television during a ballgame," Mr. Jackson said.</b>

One liberal watchdog group, Media Matters for America, sent a letter urging the ABC Family network to stop carrying Mr. Robertson's show. Another group, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, asked Mr. Bush to repudiate Mr. Robertson personally.

<b>Mr. Robertson's show is broadcast by ABC Family, which agreed to televise it as part of the deal it made in 2001 to buy Fox Family Worldwide, which previously broadcast it.</b>

In a statement yesterday, ABC Family said the company was "contractually obligated to air 'The 700 Club' and has no editorial control over views expressed by the hosts or guests." It added, "ABC Family strongly rejects the views expressed by Pat Robertson." ...........
on edit again....Robertson was said to have exposed himself to the following potential legal jeopardy:
<b>.....Obligations Under Federal and International Law</b>

Despite his apology, Pat Robertson should still be investigated -- and potentially prosecuted -- for calling for the murder of a democratically elected head of state. Under Title 18 of US Code Section 1116, "whoever kills or attempts to kill a foreign official, official guest, or internationally protected person shall be punished." Section 878 of the same title makes it a crime to "knowingly and willingly threaten" to commit the above crime.

The US government is also obligated under international law to prevent and punish acts of terrorism against foreign heads of state, if those acts are conceived of or planned on US territory. The 1973 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes Against Internationally Protected Persons makes it a crime to commit a "murder, kidnapping, or other attack upon on the liberty of an internationally protected person;" [including] a "threat to commit any such attack."

The US is also a signatory to the 1971 Convention to Prevent and Punish Acts of Terrorism Taking the Form of Crimes Against Persons and Related Extortion that are of International Significance of the OAS, Article 8a of which obliges "[t]he contracting states undertake to cooperate among themselves by taking all the measures that they may consider effective, under their own laws, and especially those established in this convention, to prevent and punish acts of terrorism, especially kidnaping [sic], murder, and other assaults against the life or physical integrity of those persons to whom the state has the duty according to international law to give special protection, as well as extortion in connection with those crimes." This includes foreign heads of state as internationally protected persons.

The Christian Broadcasting Network should also be investigated for the potential illegality of using federally licensed airwaves to call for an assassination. In light of the $550,000 fine against CBS for the accidental airing of Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction," it would be extremely ironic if the CBN were not similarly punished for airing a call for terrorist homicide.

Considering the history of US involvement in the overthrow of democratically elected governments, along with the current US hostility towards Venezuela, the incitement by a key Bush supporter to kill democratically elected President Chávez should be a clarion call: It's time to turn over a new leaf in our policy towards Venezuela, and build relations of respect with the most popular democratically elected leader in Latin America.

Deborah James is the Global Economy Director of Global Exchange, and a frequent traveler to Venezuela. She is reachable at deborah@globalexchange.org.
The canadian judge that Linder threatened is not a "head of state", but Linder is not a well connected supporter of president Bush, with a million viewers watching his 700 club TV show, so.....who knows if he will receive equal treatment, or if the U.S. has signed away some free speech protections in treaties it is a signatory to?

Last edited by host; 08-05-2006 at 11:40 PM..
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Old 08-06-2006, 04:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
Location: bedford, tx
some animals are more equal than others, it seems.
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
dksuddeth is offline  

amendment, subjective

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