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Old 11-08-2006, 06:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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International Reaction to the Midterms

http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=ht...lZd01f2Q2BKS)l

(Either be a member of nytimes.com or use bugmenot.com to get a password)

Quote:
World Sees Democrats' Win as Rejection of Bush
MADRID, Spain (AP) -- The seismic shift that midterm elections brought to Washington's political landscape was welcomed by many Wednesday who oppose the war in Iraq and the harsh methods the Bush administration has employed in fighting terrorism.

From Paris to Pakistan, politicians, analysts and ordinary citizens said they hoped the Democratic takeover of the House of Representatives would force President Bush to adopt a more conciliatory approach to global crises, and teach a president many see as a ''cowboy'' a lesson in humility.

But some also expressed fears that a split in power and a lame-duck president might stall global trade talks and weaken much-needed American influence.

On Iraq, some feared that Democrats will force a too-rapid retreat, leaving that country and the region in chaos. Others said they doubted the turnover in congressional power would have a dramatic impact on Iraq policy any time soon, largely because the Democrats have yet to define the specifics of the course they want to take.

The U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, said American policy would not dramatically change, despite the Democratic election success.

''The president is the architect of U.S. foreign policy,'' the ambassador said in a videotape distributed by the U.S. Embassy. ''He is the commander in chief of our armed forces. He understands what is at stake in Iraq.''

Regardless of the effect on world events, global giddiness that Bush was finally handed a political black-eye was almost palpable.

''Of course, the citizens of the United States are humans with a conscience. It's a reprisal vote against the war in Iraq, against the corruption'' within the Bush administration, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said. ''All this fills us with optimism.''

In an extraordinary joint statement, more than 200 Socialist members of the European Parliament hailed the American election results as ''the beginning of the end of a six-year nightmare for the world'' and gloated that they left the Bush administration ''seriously weakened.''

In Paris, expatriates and French citizens alike packed the city's main American haunts to watch results, with some standing to cheer or boo as vote tabulations came in.

One Frenchman, teacher Jean-Pierre Charpemtrat, 53, said it was about time U.S. voters figured out what much of the rest of the world already knew.

''Americans are realizing that you can't found the politics of a country on patriotic passion and reflexes,'' he said. ''You can't fool everybody all the time -- and I think that's what Bush and his administration are learning today.''

Democrats swept to power in the House on Tuesday and were threatening to take control of the Senate amid exit polls that showed widespread American discontent over Iraq, nationwide disgust at corruption in politics, and low approval ratings for Bush.

Bush is deeply unpopular in many countries around the globe, with particularly intense opposition to the U.S.-led war in Iraq, the U.S. terror detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and allegations of Washington sanctioned interrogation methods that some equate with torture.

People across the Mideast also reacted swiftly, saying it appeared the U.S. president had paid the price for what many view as failed policy in Iraq.

Most governments across the region had no official comment, but some opponents of the United States reacted harshly. ''President Bush is no longer acceptable worldwide,'' said Suleiman Hadad, a lawmaker in Syria, whose autocratic government has been shunned by the U.S.

Even some Iraqis voiced hope for change.

''We hope American foreign policy will change and that living conditions in Iraq will improve,'' said 48-year-old engineer Suheil Jabar, a Shiite Muslim in Baghdad.

In Copenhagen, Denmark, 35-year-old Jens Langfeldt said he did not know much about the midterm elections but was opposed to Bush's values. He referred to the president as ''that cowboy.''

In Sri Lanka, some said they hoped the rebuke would force Bush to abandon a unilateral approach to global issues.

The Democratic win means ''there will be more control and restraint'' over U.S. foreign policy. said Jehan Perera, a political analyst.

Passions were even higher in Pakistan, where Bush is deeply unpopular despite billions in aid and support for President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

One opposition lawmaker, Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, said he welcomed the election result but hoped for more. Bush ''deserves to be removed, put on trial and given a Saddam-like death sentence,'' he said.

But while the result clearly produced more jubilation than jitters, there were deep concerns.

Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen told broadcaster TV2 he hoped that the president and the new Congress would find ''common ground on questions about Iraq and Afghanistan.''

''The world needs a vigorous U.S.A.,'' Fogh Rasmussen said.

Some also worried that Democrats, who have a reputation for being more protective of U.S. jobs going overseas, will make it harder to achieve a global free trade accord.

The accord, said European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, ''is very important for the future of trans-Atlantic relations.''

And in China, some feared the resurgence of the Democrats would increase tension over human rights and trade and labor issues. China's surging economy has a massive trade surplus with the United States.

''The Democratic Party ... will protect the interests of small and medium American enterprises and labor and that could produce an impact on China-U.S. trade relations,'' Zhang Guoqing of the state-run Chinese Academy of Social Sciences said in a report on Sina.com, a popular Chinese Internet portal.

The prospect of a sudden change in American foreign policy could be troubling to U.S. allies such as Britain, Japan and Australia, which have thrown their support behind the March 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Democrats campaigned on a platform that demanded a change of direction in Iraq, and the war has lost the support of the majority of American voters.

''The problem for Arabs now is, an American withdrawal (from Iraq) could be a security disaster for the entire region,'' said Mustafa Alani, an Iraqi analyst for the Gulf Research Center in Dubai.
Evidently the international community sees this midterm's result as the ultimate Bush Smackdown. Whether it really is that or not, I'm not certain, but this article certainly points to the impression that the US has garnered over the last six years.

I note the concern that the Democrats will force us out of Iraq too quickly, leaving a power vacuum and chaos behind. I'm a little concerned about that myself--though I expect to see a reasonable withdrawal plan from them soon.

Your thoughts on this? What long-term impact do you think the Democrat resurgence will have on our international reputation?
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Old 11-08-2006, 08:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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" I note the concern that the Democrats will force us out of Iraq too quickly, leaving a power vacuum and chaos behind. I'm a little concerned about that myself--though I expect to see a reasonable withdrawal plan from them soon.

Rat, as much time as they (the dems) have had to consider this, and the implications of what happens in Iraq, I'm concerned that you've conceded they haven't given you a "reasonable withdrawal plan" to date, and voted for them anyway.

I watched the O'malley/Ehrlich debate recently and Ehrlich's closing arguments were right on "there's two very different leadership styles you've seen and can vote for: one who blames everything on everyone else [serioulsy O'malley's theme in the debate], and another who leads and acts.

I can't believe O'Malley took it, there's alot of women in MD who think he's cute because he plays in his band o'malleys march in pubs and sits down with John Spencer Smith to help him figure out his bills and the evil oil companies that Ehrlich sides with make his month real tough, but this approach to winning elections will die by 2008....hopefully.

These f'ers, by your own admission have no plan. They just appeal to your "John Spencer Smith" sympathies.
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Old 11-08-2006, 08:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Considering that a recent international poll indicated that the US is the greatest threat to World stability, I am mildly hopeful with the "wait and see" position indicated in the above link.

Quote:
Your thoughts on this? What long-term impact do you think the Democrat resurgence will have on our international reputation?
RB, we can't predict that the Dem's will hold a majority in 2008, let alone have sufficient influence to alter the Bush/Condi diplomatic agenda for the next two years.

To undo the damage that has been done in the last six years to the stature that the US once held, will take decades to repair. I am including the huge debt that is owed primarily to China and our government's ability to reduce that debt.

I wonder now and again if Rove's November surprise was to give the Dem's two years to take the blame for everything. sigh
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Old 11-08-2006, 08:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Your already sighing about the progress democrats will make now that they have won some elections. And they say Dem's are pessimistic.... Rather telling dont'ya think?

Rove's not gonna be around forever. What will you do then?
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Matthew, as has been said time and time again, by talking heads on TV and posters in this forum: this election is more an expression of being fed up with how the Republican controlled congress and white house have handled Iraq, to the point where we're willing to give someone else (aka, the Democrats) a shot at it. Do they have a concrete plan written on paper, that they all agree on? No, because they haven't had the need (or the chance) to create one. The first step was to get elected, and they've done that. The candidates have individually floated ideas around during their campaigns and whatnot, but the need for their party to form something comprehensive was not there. Being the minority party, it would have been a waste of time, since it would have been systematically ignored.

Now the Democrats have a chance to prove themselves. They could very easily screw things up, I'll be the first to admit that. It's an opportunity to do their party proud, or to show the country their impotence. Time will tell. The Republicans had their chance, and they blew it. It's time to explore other options besides "stay the course."
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It's interesting to note that most of the world rejoiced at the recent election results, as did Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

If the enemy is happy at the election results, shouldn't that tell us that we have a problem?
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The elections mean many things to many people. Individuals react with their unique interests and prejudices. Some will spin reactions for effect. Some will be spun in the reporting. The media is entertainment after all.

For me this election was more about things here in the US than it was about Iraq. It was about accountability for flagrant opportunism. For selling out faith, patriotism, and our future. No doubt every group encounters these temptations but this band has shown themselves to be without self control. I voted for them yet am more than happy they were shown the door. With some luck, and perhaps a less distractable public, here's hoping the next group does slightly better. It sure doesn't seem like we have much slack left in our bag of tricks.
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Old 11-11-2006, 09:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moskie
... Do they have a concrete plan written on paper, that they all agree on? No, because they haven't had the need (or the chance) to create one. The first step was to get elected, and they've done that. The candidates have individually floated ideas around during their campaigns and whatnot, but the need for their party to form something comprehensive was not there. Being the minority party, it would have been a waste of time, since it would have been systematically ignored.
You're serious? You think that for the last 3.5 years, the Democrats who bitched at every opportunity, would have been premature in coming up with a better plan? All that complaining took place without an inkling of how they could improve the situation?

If the Democrats are just starting to think about how to improve the current state of affairs, the only appropriate word is "pathetic."
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Old 11-11-2006, 05:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think it would be pretty unfair to judge the Democratic power shift on how it deals with Iraq. Iraq is fucked, going into the conflict without due cause and most importantly without an exit plan has made it so. To expect the Democrats to magic the situation better is exactly what the Bush administration wants people to think, so that when the next election comes along he can claim that the problem is the Democrats doing - I can see him saying something along the lines of "well I had a plan, but these guys reckoned they could do better...we gave them a chance and look they haven't done it! Iraq is messed up and it is all the Democrats fault. Vote for x and you'll get more money spent on defense and we'll fix this thing for you folks. blah blah"

I think that the Democrats can perhaps only succeed in stopping the rot and re-engaging the international community. If they can do that then Iraq has a chance of getting fixed in our life time - a chance mind only a chance...

I just hope that we in Britain can follow the courage of the voting American public and vote for an administration change of our own!
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Old 11-11-2006, 06:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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_God_, do you think the Republicans had some sort of plan?

As far as I can see, both sides are waiting to hear what the Iraq Study Group is going to say.

The only difference between the Republicans and the Democrats as far as I can see, because they both have no plan, is that the Republicans are willing to stubbornly stick to what isn't working, and the Democrats are open to finding a better solution.

This war has been a catastrophe--it has created a front line for all anti-US extremist groups to come take a pot shot at the evil empire, and faciliated in the aforementioned group's increasing numbers as well. If we "stayed the course", who knows how long we would be over there?

I'm willing to give the floor to the Democrats if they're going to try something different. They may make their own mess, but I don't see how it could be any worse than what's going on now.
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Old 11-11-2006, 08:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _God_
If the Democrats are just starting to think about how to improve the current state of affairs, the only appropriate word is "pathetic."
There's been no lack of planning. It's just that the ones who have plans--say, for instance, Jack Murtha--got called traitors by the "stay the course" majority, and got shut down real quick.

Just so you know how it works, a mid-term election isn't a single election. It's a common day on which dozens and dozens of individual elections were held. There's no party platform offered at mid-term time, generally speaking. So that there's none now is not in any way exceptional.

The Dems have a whole lame-duck session to work out the details of what the propose to do. And don't forget--while congress holds the purse strings, foreign policy is still dictated by the White House.
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Old 11-11-2006, 10:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthew330

These f'ers, by your own admission have no plan. They just appeal to your "John Spencer Smith" sympathies.
You say that like "stay the course" is a plan worth keeping.

This election is a repudiation of "stay the course". Change for change sake is not always a bad thing.

As for the international reaction... all I can say is, let's wait and see. This could be just as bad but at least it's something new.
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Old 11-12-2006, 04:28 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I really put little import on how we are viewed in the world. So much of the "goodwill" that the rest of the world had for us during the Cold War era was simply because we were mostly seen as the lesser of two evils, and our military buildup essentially allowed the rest of the world to free-ride on our military might, without destroying their economys. The rest of the world wanted the US to go away when the Soviet Union fell. We beat up the old town bully, and now (regardless of our intentions) the townsfolk see us as the bully, simply because we have the most power. The only thing that would cause the return of the "goodwill" would be if another true superpower emerged. Personally, I think the best thing for the US is to go strict isolationist, at least in non-economic dealings. No military interventions, no sanctioning, no anything. North Korea isn't an immediate threat to us, let China/Russia/Japan deal with them. It's obvious we are just spinning our wheels at this point in the middle east, so lets pull out. Let the rest of the world deal with the world's problems, we have more than enough here to deal with ourselves.
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Old 11-16-2006, 01:26 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I have the impression that the situation is already chaotic !
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Old 11-16-2006, 06:13 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alansmithee
I really put little import on how we are viewed in the world. So much of the "goodwill" that the rest of the world had for us during the Cold War era was simply because we were mostly seen as the lesser of two evils, and our military buildup essentially allowed the rest of the world to free-ride on our military might, without destroying their economys. The rest of the world wanted the US to go away when the Soviet Union fell. We beat up the old town bully, and now (regardless of our intentions) the townsfolk see us as the bully, simply because we have the most power. The only thing that would cause the return of the "goodwill" would be if another true superpower emerged. Personally, I think the best thing for the US is to go strict isolationist, at least in non-economic dealings. No military interventions, no sanctioning, no anything. North Korea isn't an immediate threat to us, let China/Russia/Japan deal with them. It's obvious we are just spinning our wheels at this point in the middle east, so lets pull out. Let the rest of the world deal with the world's problems, we have more than enough here to deal with ourselves.
Absolutely! Because isolationsim has worked so well for us in the past! Man it did wonders for our economy. our domestic interest, and international stability! Why did we ever get away from that in the first place? /sarcasm

Having ever read an American History book, how can you think that is a good idea? Honestly, all that aside, you have to realize that if we turn inwards we give up hegemony. That doesn't just mean not needing to get involved in international affairs and bringing troops home. It also means inevitable loss in economic power and growth (even if you remain involved in the global economy), it means a loss of authority that would cause a vaccuum. Someone would have to become the new hegemon. Now we don't get to choose, but for the sake of discussion let me ask who you would want that to be? The strongest contender is probably China, but India and Japan have a shot at it if they tackled a few problems. Brazil is in a decent position too, as is the entirety of the European Union if they centralized. But who would even come close to serving American interest if they took over when we stepped down?
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:21 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I kinda wonder why people think the Democrats should already have had a plan for Iraq. The situation in Iraq is highly dynamic and chaotic in it's current form. Things are changing there every single day. If you were to sit down and hammer out a plan one day the plan would be outdated and obsolete the next week. This kind of situation requires adaptation on the fly not a "stay the course" mentality that we should already have seen does not work.
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Old 11-17-2006, 07:58 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ObieX
I kinda wonder why people think the Democrats should already have had a plan for Iraq. The situation in Iraq is highly dynamic and chaotic in it's current form. Things are changing there every single day. If you were to sit down and hammer out a plan one day the plan would be outdated and obsolete the next week. This kind of situation requires adaptation on the fly not a "stay the course" mentality that we should already have seen does not work.
Perhaps the bombardment of statements from Democrats who promised, if elected, to solve the Iraq problem engendered false hope.

Although practically no one believes campaign promises anymore (for good reasons), it does provoke reflection when a candidate has the solution to Iraq right up until he wins the election.

Then, of course, he or she will need "more time," which usually translates to just after the next time they will be up for re-election.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbastid
There's been no lack of planning. It's just that the ones who have plans--say, for instance, Jack Murtha--got called traitors by the "stay the course" majority, and got shut down real quick.
I don't think you can blame the Republicans for the latest incidence of Jack Murtha being shut down. It was the Democrats who didn't think much of his plans.

Last edited by magictoy; 11-17-2006 at 08:04 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 11-17-2006, 08:43 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magictoy
I don't think you can blame the Republicans for the latest incidence of Jack Murtha being shut down. It was the Democrats who didn't think much of his plans.
I'm not talking about his bid for Majority Leader. Perhaps you've forgotten a few months ago, how after Murtha spoke about withdrawing troops from Iraq the Republicans proposed the Cut And Run Resolution, which they nicknamed "The Murtha Proposal", so they could vote it down and mock the only sensible voice congress had to offer about the war. How the Republicans behaved was nothing short of shameful, calling a veteran and a staunch supporter of our troops "anti-american" and "a traitor"--when, knowing what we now know, he was absolutely right all along.
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:12 AM   #19 (permalink)
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You are absolutely right Rat, feed that paper tiger, that will make things a whole lot better.
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Old 11-17-2006, 10:29 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Murtha didnt lose the vote for Majority leader because of his outspoken oppostion to the war or his proposal for redeployment (described as "cut and run" as opposed to the failed "stay the course" slogan). He lost because Hoyer is far better at insider politics and organizing his Dem colleagues.

Murtha will still be the most visible and vocal Dem voice on developing an alternative strategy for Iraq and it is likely to have the support of far more Americans than the current 31% support for the current failed policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _God_
You're serious? You think that for the last 3.5 years, the Democrats who bitched at every opportunity, would have been premature in coming up with a better plan? All that complaining took place without an inkling of how they could improve the situation?

If the Democrats are just starting to think about how to improve the current state of affairs, the only appropriate word is "pathetic."
A number of Dems have come up with proposals in the last 3+ years - Murtha's phased redeployment w/rapid response forces remaining in the region, Biden's trifurcation of Iraq into three autonomous regions (a terrible plan IMO), Skelton's plan for bringing Jordon, Egypt, Kuwait, Iran,Syria into both diplomatic/political discussions with the new Iraqi government and a Muslim "stabilization force" to replace the US face of occupation...and other plans.

They have not coalesced around any one plan for one simple reason.....the Repubs in both the House and Senate have consistently blocked any hearings to discuss any options to "stay the course". Now that the Dems have an opportunity to hold hearings on these and other plans, where they can call defense and Mid East policy experts, openly discuss their assessments of the pros and cons of the plans and review the options in greater depth, there will be consensus on a plan by early '07.
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Last edited by dc_dux; 11-17-2006 at 10:52 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 11-17-2006, 11:25 AM   #21 (permalink)
 
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on the international reaction: i am surprised at the extent to which the reactions i have been following are rooted in close sustained attention not just to the elections themselves, but also to the figuring of the new line-ups, etc.: within this, what is interesting is the extent to which french and english language press coverage of american politics is infinitely more nuanced/detailed than any american coverage of any other country's political landscape.
yet another argument in favor of turning off your television.

and here is another: the apparent persuasive power of the "manly man" approach to iraq--sqaure of jaw and bereft of information--is a direct function of television's figuration of information. from any other viewpoint, the refusal to interact with either information or complexity would be seen as pathological--but in a visual culture wholly dominated by decontextualized imagery, the square=jawed man who repeats and repeats the same things can come to be seen as "resolute" or "manly"---and this has everything to do with the ways in which political information is mediated in the states, and almost nothing with that of the relation between the content of what is said and the putative referent (in this case iraq)....the flip of this is obvious: that politicos who try to address complexity--and who by extension find themselves bumped out of being able to rely on the square-jawed repetition of simple memes--appear "weak" or unmanly.

it is crazy, the power of tele-mediation in the states: a top-down corporate autocracy gets to frame in a close-to-absolute way how american pseudo-democracy functions. worse, a top-down corporate autocracy has, via repetition, managed to frame in its own image the boundary between inside and outside: what complicates the relationship between face-shot, utterances and the notion of acceptable duration for political propositions particular to commercial news outlets gets processed not as a limitation of the medium, but as a limitation imputed to those who interact with the medium, whose political signifiers are shaped through it.
which means that people have naturalized television, collapsed its medium-specific limitations onto the "reality" that is framed by/through them.

which is stupid: nothing more or less.

turn off the fucking television and read.
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Old 11-17-2006, 12:17 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
You are absolutely right Rat, feed that paper tiger, that will make things a whole lot better.
And thank you for your valuable and insightful contribution to this thread.
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Old 11-18-2006, 11:21 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy

....it is crazy, the power of tele-mediation in the states: a top-down corporate autocracy gets to frame in a close-to-absolute way how american pseudo-democracy functions. worse, a top-down corporate autocracy has, via repetition, managed to frame in its own image the boundary between inside and outside: what complicates the relationship between face-shot, utterances and the notion of acceptable duration for political propositions particular to commercial news outlets gets processed not as a limitation of the medium, but as a limitation imputed to those who interact with the medium, whose political signifiers are shaped through it.
which means that people have naturalized television, collapsed its medium-specific limitations onto the "reality" that is framed by/through them.

which is stupid: nothing more or less.

turn off the fucking television and read.
The background for this post can be found on the thread on this forum, titled:
<b>Will New Democratic Party Controlled Congress, Investigate Secret Republican "Orgs"?</b>
roachboy, the "problem, IMO, is not television. It is the growth and influence of the coalition of corporatism/christian fundamentalism, directed by the 700 members of the "Council for National Policy", (CNP).

Large numbers of the former US TV network audience, have been "won over" to the idea of "receiving" most of their opinion shaping information from the affiliated "columnists", and radio talk show hosts, of townhall.com, which features the <a href="http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/outthere/otcnscolumnists.html">"news"</a> of CNSnews.com, a Brent Bozell III propaganda "enterprise".

From beginnings as a Compuserve BBS that was associated in 1994, with Abramoff's IFF....heritage foundation's and national review's town-hall, was sold in 2005, to CNP dominated, "christian media network", Salem Communications.

<b>I venture to advance the idea here, that almost all of the opinions advanced by "conservatives" on these threads, are heavily influenced by CNP associated "players", those talking heads and columnists associated with Salem Comm./townhall.com, from Novak to Coulter, and David Horowitz/frontpagemag, Joseph Farah/worldnetdaily Murdoch/foxnews, all under a christian fundamentalist "umbrella". </b>
The success of this effort to drive the attention of half of the country away from "liberal media bias", into the "arms" of this propaganda machine's narrowcasting, has much to do with the increasing polarization of this country. Half of us have only a vague idea of what the "on message", "other half", is even talking about.....even as we "marvel" at how resolute they are about "knowing what they know"......

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"Red Scorpion" -- Propaganda Blockbuster

Most of the anti-Soviet propaganda clichs that the right has
systematically drummed into the American psyche over the last few
years were present in "Red Scorpion," a sensational Ramboesque
feature film that played last spring. The infamous "Hind
helicopter gunship" which dumped "yellow rain" on the natives
stole the show from the Russian assassin, played by Dolph
Lundgren, the evil Soviet boxer in "Rocky IV." The absurd plot
which had the Soviet assassin on a mission to Angola to off Jonas
Savimbi ends up with the Russians abandoning the assassin who is
adopted by a bushman. He is so inspired by their simple way of
life that he goes back and single-handedly wipes out the Soviets.
As the Russian leaves, the bushman, dramatically framed by a
sunset-washed butte, says, with feeling, "Das vadanya!"

This propaganda film, not unlike "Red Dawn", portrays the Soviets
as singularly evil, while their enemies, in this case the Angolan
"freedom fighters," are pure and loveable. [See Images of the
Enemy, p.22]

The circumstances behind the creation of "Red Scorpion," however,
are more interesting than its propaganda value. <b>The producer,
Jack Abramoff, has connections to the World-Anti Communist League
through his organization, the International Freedom Foundation
(IFF). According to Covert Action Information Bulletin (Winter
1989), IFF is closely associated with South Africa, where "Red
Scorpion" was filmed (the only American film to do so in the face
of an industry-wide boycott) and has offices in Tel Aviv.</b>
Abramoff, who specializes in right wing propaganda films, also
helped Oliver North raise money for the contras, according to a
declassified National Security Council memo [see PR #1].
Abramoff also actively marketed videotapes of Oliver North's
contra slide show.

How many other Hollywood films have pedigrees like "Red
Scorpion"?
Quote:
http://www.well.com:70/0/Politics/ac.../how.to.win/J1
.....<b>Town Hall</b>
(800) 648-6964 [modem - hit return on connect]
(800) 441-4142 (202) 546-4400 [voice]
An electronic bulletin board (BBS) and interactive dial-up computer service
for the conservative movement. <b>Sponsored by National Review and the Heritage Foundation.</b> Includes electronic (ASCII) text version of materials from groups such as the The Free Congress Foundation's National Empowerment Television project, Focus on the Family, The Leadership Institute, <b>International Freedom Foundation</b>, Citizens for a Sound Economy, and the State Policy Network of state-based think tanks.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....age+foundation
misc.activism.progressive > PRA: List of Reactionary Groups (2/2)

From: Rich Winkel - view profile
Date: Tues, Jul 19 1994 6:42 pm
Email: r...@pencil.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel)
Groups: misc.activism.progressive
Followup-To: alt.activism.d

[continued ...]

The Independence Institute
Golden, CO ......

..........Town Hall
On Compuserve computer network
(202) 546-4400 [voice line at Heritage
Foundation, ask for Town Hall information]
An electronic bulletin board (BBS) and
interactive dial-up computer service for the
conservative movement carried on the Compuserve
computer network. Sponsored by National Review
and the Heritage Foundation. Includes electronic
(ASCII) text version of materials from groups
such as the The Free Congress Foundation's
National Empowerment Television project, Focus on
the Family, The Leadership Institute,
<b>International Freedom Foundation</b>, Citizens
for a Sound Economy, and the State Policy Network
of state-based think tanks. .......
Quote:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.a...7e870f1268d026
From: Edmund Weinmann - view profile
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 1994 6:03 pm
Email: Edmund Weinmann <eweinm...@delphi.com>
Groups: alt.activism
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A new conservative BBS is starting up as a private forum on Compuserve. It is
the National Review/Heritage Foundation "Town Hall". Cost will be $24.95 per
month, which includes UNLIMITED connect time to this board and to all of
Compuserve's basic services.
Access to all the rest of Compuserve is at regular rates. First month is free.
Sign-up fee of $24.95 includes $15 usage credit and the Compuserve access
software of your choice. Call 800-280-2392, or if busy 202-547-6368 or
202-546-4400 (all voice numbers
) and ask about TOWN HALL.
Quote:
http://www.nab.org/AM/AMTemplate.cfm...ContentID=3591
REPLY COMMENTS OF THE
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BROADCASTERS
Jan. 3, 2005

(page 19

.........First, the views of CFA and CLC do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the majority of Americans. For example, although the raw number of complaints about broadcasters’ programming has soared over the past two years, it has been determined that nearly all such
complaints were filed by the Parents Television Council (“PTC”), a Los Angeles-based activist advocacy group. <b>Specifically, the PTC was responsible for 99.8% of the indecency complaints filed with the Commission in 2003, and 99.9% of the complaints filed through October 2004,</b>
excluding complaints concerning the Janet Jackson Super Bowl incident.
[60]
Thus, NAB believes
that, in actuality, CFA, CLC and the PTC are out of step with the majority of Americans when itcomes to the quality and enjoyment of broadcast programming.
These media critics also completely ignore the realities of today’s media marketplace

[60]
60
See e.g., Todd Shields, Activists Dominate Content Complaints, MediaWeek, December 6, 2004,
available at
http://www.mediaweek.com/mediaweek/h..._id=1000731656
...........
Quote:
http://www.parentstv.org/PTC/faqs/main.asp

....To arrange a press interview with <b>PTC President Brent Bozell</b>, Senior Director Programs Melissa Caldwell, Executive Director Tim Winter or any of the PTC’s Advisory Board members, call or email our public relations consultant Kelly Oliver at Creative Response Concepts at 703.683.5004. To schedule a speaking engagement with PTC President Brent Bozell, call his assistant Danette Williams at 703.684.1699.
Quote:
http://www.townhall.com/aboutus.aspx
About Townhall.com

Townhall.com was launched in 1995 as the first conservative web community. At that time, only a handful of political sites existed and Townhall.com was the first major investment in online activism made by either side. In 2005, Townhall.com split off from The Heritage Foundation in order to expand the scope of Townhall.com's mission to inform, empower and mobilize citizens for political change. Today, Townhall.com is a web site that pulls together news and information from its 120 different "partner organizations," political commentary and analysis from over 100 different columnists, and activism tools developed to empower an active citizenry.

Townhall.com is designed to amplify conservative voices in America’s political debates just as the 2006 and 2008 election cycles begin to heat up.

By uniting the nations’ top conservative radio hosts with their millions of listeners, Townhall.com breaks down the barriers between news and opinion, journalism and political participation -- and enables conservatives to participate in the political process with unprecedented ease.

As a part of Salem Communications Corporation, Townhall.com features Salem’s News/Talk radio hosts, Bill Bennett, Mike Gallagher, Hugh Hewitt, Michael Medved, and Dennis Prager, who are heard on over 300 stations nationwide. Of our five hosts, three are among the top 10 radio talk shows in the nation!

For the first time, the grassroots media of talk radio, the internet, blogging and podcasting will be brought together in one place to activate conservative political participation.

By providing daily news and opinion articles, sophisticated activism tools, a vibrant blog community, online radio shows and more, Townhall.com will arm conservatives with the tools and information necessary to have an impact in shaping the news.

It’s Your World: Blog It. Podcast It. Change It.

* Blog it: Led by talk radio host and blogger Hugh Hewitt, Townhall.com is the first conservative site that enables conservatives to create their own blog in seconds.
* Podcast it: Townhall.com not only offers free podcasts of radio shows for Bill Bennett, Mike Gallagher, Dennis Prager, Michael Medved and Hugh Hewitt but also <b>from leading organizations like TCSDaily.com</b>, The VFW’s National Defense Show, The Northern Alliance Show with leading bloggers and Jay Sekulow Live.
Quote:
Insert by host: TCSDAILY.com is a corporate propaganda site....<a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Nick_Schulz">"dumped in Oct., onto it's "long time editor"</a> Nick Schulz....

Before TCSdaily, aka "Tech Central Station" was "dumped", just three weeks ago, this was it's record:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/sto...2612021&page=1
By CLAYTON SANDELL

WASHINGTON, Oct. 27, 2006 — ExxonMobil should stop funding groups that have spread the idea that global warming is a myth and that try to influence policymakers to adopt that view, two senators said today in a letter to the oil company.

In their letter to ExxonMobil chairman and CEO Rex Tillerson, Sens. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, and Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., appealed to Exxon's sense of corporate responsibility, asking the company to "come clean about its past denial activities." .....

....An upcoming study from the Union of Concerned Scientists reported that ExxonMobil funded 29 climate change denial groups in 2004 alone. Since 1990, the report said, the company has spent more than $19 million funding groups that promote their views through publications and Web sites that are not peer reviewed by the scientific community.

The senators singled out the Competitive Enterprise Institute, a Washington think tank, and the Tech Central Station Web site as beneficiaries of Exxon's efforts to sow doubt within the public about the scientific consensus behind global warming.

"We are convinced that ExxonMobil's long-standing support of a small cadre of global climate change skeptics, and those skeptics' access to and influence on government policymakers, have made it increasingly difficult for the United States to demonstrate the moral clarity it needs across all facets of its diplomacy," the letter said........

<b>Background</b>
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea...onfessore.html

.......But <b>TCS doesn't just act like a lobbying shop. It's actually published by one--the DCI Group, a prominent Washington "public affairs" firm specializing in P.R., lobbying, and so-called "Astroturf" organizing, generally on behalf of corporations, GOP politicians, and the occasional Third-World despot. The two organizations share most of the same owners, some staff, and even the same suite of offices in downtown Washington</b>, a block off K Street. As it happens, many of DCI's clients are also "sponsors" of the site it houses. TCS not only runs the sponsors' banner ads; its contributors aggressively defend those firms' policy positions, on TCS and elsewhere.

James Glassman and TCS have given birth to something quite new in Washington: journo-lobbying.........
* Change it: The Townhall.com action center is modeled after the highly successful online action tools used by Bush-Cheney ’04 and GeorgeWBush.com. Building upon the word-of-mouth marketing strategies of BC’04, Townhall.com will activate conservative talk radio listeners.

Salem Communications is the leading US radio broadcaster targeting the large and growing audience interested in programming related to religion, family and culture and owns and operates 105 radio stations, with 66 stations in 24 of the nation’s top 25 metropolitan areas. As the 2006 and 2008 elections approach, <b>Townhall.com and Salem are building a strong, active conservative community by combining the power of the internet with the influence of talk radio.</b>
Quote:
http://gadflyer.com/articles/?ArticleID=260
Secret Society
Just <b>who is the Council for National Policy</b>, and why aren't they paying taxes?

by Sarah Posner, Contributor
2.21.05

......And while the mainstream media is asleep at the switch, <h3>CNP members' access to conservative media outlets enable them to collaborate and disseminate their propaganda. One example is Bozell and the Media Research Center, the mission of which is "to provide the conservative movement with the marketing and public relations tools necessary to deliver its message into the 21st century." Another example is that five directors of Salem Communications Company are or have been officers and directors of CNP: Salem's president and CEO, Edward G. Atsinger, III; Stuart W. Epperson (host of Truth Talk Live, a radio show broadcast on Salem's radio network); Roland S. Hinz (who is also president of Hi-Favor Communications, which has purchased radio stations from Salem to implement a Christian format in Spanish); Hodel; and Judge Paul Pressler (a retired Texas judge who has made a career of advocating a conservative resurgence in the Southern Baptist Convention). Salem owns over 100 Christian broadcast radio stations, is the provider of Christian programming on XM Satellite Radio, and recently agreed with America Online to provide the only Christian talk radio station on the AOL Radio Network.</h3> Last year, Salem was ranked in the top 100 in Fortune Small Business magazine's list of fastest growing small public companies. Salem is the seventh largest owner of radio stations in the country, and while it barely rivals Clear Channel at over 1,200 stations, the combined Christian broadcasting power of Salem and American Family Radio -- a project of the American Family Association -- would rank them fourth, just behind powerhouses Clear Channel, Cumulus, and Citadel. Many Republican House and Senate candidates, as well as the Bush/Cheney campaign, the Republican National Committee, and the Republican Majority Issues Committee, the issue advertising committee formed by DeLay, have been the beneficiaries of not only Atsinger's largesse, but that of Salem Communications' political action committee as well.......
.....I post this "stuff"....and it changes nothing.....we still see posts that include "citations" from tcsdaily.com , CNSnews.com .....offered as "serious" support for posted opinions. If someone showed me that the sites where I was getting my "news"....the sites that I linked to in my posts on a politics forum, were actually bullshit propagandist "shill" sites.....I'd either stop posting links from them, or I would defend the integrity of the sites that were challenged.....I see none of that happening on this forum.....it's almost as it there is complete acceptance of this crap as authorative, by some of our posters !

Last edited by host; 11-18-2006 at 12:16 PM..
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Old 11-18-2006, 12:14 PM   #24 (permalink)
 
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Location: essex ma
host:

i think we have different approaches to thinking about this kind of question. while i am interested in the cnp, who they are and what they do, i am not inclined to think in terms of a cabal when you have other factors at play at the same time that are materially right in front of you and which have particular effects that you can see repeated at almost every level of the informational context that makes contemporary conservative ideology possible.

i was at a conference-thing last weekend and saw a presentation by d.a. pennebaker and chris hegedus--they were talking about making "the war room" and hegedus pointed out something that appeared obvious after she said it, but which i had only really noticed in the context of baseball games--that television is not a particularly visual medium--it is a talk medium that uses particular types of truncated imagery to ground the talk in the illusion of "reality"---pennbaker talked about running into a wall of television cameras positioned entrances to hotels--what they were after were shots of the Agent in Question--in this particular case, al gore--entering or leaving the hotel. that shot is enough--the relevant story is told to you, and the image of passage into or out of a door adequate to assure you as a viewer that what you are seeing is "news"....

on the other hand, i should say that i do not watch television often at all any more--i stopped on 9/13/2001 in fact. the only exception is when i find myself in a hotelroom--which is basically a television watching station--and am bored. i watched a TON of tv news, with my head a bit rattled by meeting a bunch of documentary film-makers during the days and evenings that i was there. of course, my perverse self-flagellating side required that i watch alot of faux news, and of course i was treated to (for example) a sundaymorning talking head from the dnc talking about whatever the democratic congress might do about iraq as behind him ran a loop of american military vehicles exploding somewhere in iraq. over and over and over. this is the kind of cheap shit one expects from faux news...but i was quite fascinated by the way in which information is framed, truncated, chopped up.

now it may be that at some level the cnp is a part of this in more ways than i know about---but that does not lead me in any way to think that the nature of the central information-relay system that operates in the states is suddenly not an interesting and important matter to consider. and this because even if the cnp turns out to have played a fundamental role in reorienting something of the politics of corporate media, that still says little to nothing about the medium that they might have reoriented---which they did not invent.

i sense a rant starting and have some other things i need to tend to so i'll cut this off here.
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:51 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuadDib
Absolutely! Because isolationsim has worked so well for us in the past! Man it did wonders for our economy. our domestic interest, and international stability! Why did we ever get away from that in the first place? /sarcasm

Having ever read an American History book, how can you think that is a good idea? Honestly, all that aside, you have to realize that if we turn inwards we give up hegemony. That doesn't just mean not needing to get involved in international affairs and bringing troops home. It also means inevitable loss in economic power and growth (even if you remain involved in the global economy), it means a loss of authority that would cause a vaccuum. Someone would have to become the new hegemon. Now we don't get to choose, but for the sake of discussion let me ask who you would want that to be? The strongest contender is probably China, but India and Japan have a shot at it if they tackled a few problems. Brazil is in a decent position too, as is the entirety of the European Union if they centralized. But who would even come close to serving American interest if they took over when we stepped down?

That isolationism that you so easily dismiss is what gave the economic foundation for us to be able to enter into the cold war, and also have a dominant production base to turn the tide in WWII. There is no loss in economic power and growth. An isolationist government in no way stops private corporations from doing business abroad. In some ways, it would make investing in US companies more attractive, if many other markets were rendered less stable due to the lack of US protection. Alot of borderline cases become much less attractive for investing when people start realizing that the US won't bail them out. And isolationism does not mean we would not look out for our interests, it means that we would look out ONLY for our interests. Unless there was a direct threat to the US (and not some corporations's interests), we would not get involved. No humanitarian aid, no regime change, no ally defense, nothing. Of the countries you name, only China has any real shot at becoming a superpower in the near (50 years or so) future.
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Old 11-21-2006, 07:12 AM   #26 (permalink)
 
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Location: essex ma
i dont see this, alan.
what i see is that the basic features of capitalist organization have shifted away from working within the nation=state as a kind of natural horizon.
the world, then, is fundamentally other than it was in the 1930s.
isolationism is not an option.
that world is gone, for better or worse.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:48 PM   #27 (permalink)
Banned
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alansmithee
That isolationism that you so easily dismiss is what gave the economic foundation for us to be able to enter into the cold war, and also have a dominant production base to turn the tide in WWII. There is no loss in economic power and growth. An isolationist government in no way stops private corporations from doing business abroad. In some ways, it would make investing in US companies more attractive, if many other markets were rendered less stable due to the lack of US protection. Alot of borderline cases become much less attractive for investing when people start realizing that the US won't bail them out. And isolationism does not mean we would not look out for our interests, it means that we would look out ONLY for our interests. Unless there was a direct threat to the US (and not some corporations's interests), we would not get involved. No humanitarian aid, no regime change, no ally defense, nothing. Of the countries you name, only China has any real shot at becoming a superpower in the near (50 years or so) future.
alansmithee, your comments harken back to a time when the US was self sufficient in meeting it's energy consumption....with a surplus that was exported....and was self sufficient via it's industrial and manufacturing base.

There was no requirment to attract foreign funding of nearly $600 billion in annual US treasury debt accumulation, or to finance the current $800 billion trade deficit. There was no reliance on Japan to print truckloads of yen out of thin air, to purchase the US dollars taken in by Japanese exporters, for the purpose of Japanese government purchase of the US treasury debt, with the dollars traded in Japan, for yen printed out of thin air.

IMO, countries like Japan, the US, and China, must engage in a charade of propping up each other's worthless fiat paper currencies, to continue to purchase needed "real wealth".....i.e., the commodities and raw materials produced by Russia, Canada, Nigeria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, et al.

The economic system that we live in is "propped up" by the threat of US military action, if the paper currency in exchange for petroleum and other raw materials, "scam", is threatened or interrupted, in any way.

The US has nothing to offer that the rest of the world wants....to the degree that would actually support a non-paper money scam that allows the US to continue to use 25 percent of the world's daily petroleum production, or to show, "on paper", a $13,000 billion, annual GDP.

The paper money "prop up" that we demand and now require....will collapse, and the US will be required by the petroleum and raw material rich countries, to procure those commodities with "hard money", or with 100 times the amount of nearly worthless paper money that is accepted in trade, now.

There will be misery here in the US, but is it fair to impose the current "system"....of the "have nots" printing money out of thin air, to purchase and deplete the irreplaceable "real wealth" of other nations, peopled by folks who will have nothing but nearly worthless fiat paper, when this system collapses, under it's own shear weight?
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Old 11-25-2006, 08:45 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Many foreign countries have socialist/tyrannical governments that show even less respect for individual rights than the more-socialist-by-the-minute government here in America. Generally speaking, I'd say that the less the foreigners like our leaders, the better those leaders are.
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