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Old 09-11-2008, 03:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Joe's not the best choice

Biden basically said yesterday that he wasn't actually the nest pick for the VP. According to him Hilary would have been a better choice-

'Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States,'' Biden said. ''She is qualified to be president of the United States of America. She is easily qualified to be vice president of the United States of America, and quite frankly, might've been a better pick than me.''

Is this just another stupid thing to come out of the mouth of Joe or is it some part of a plan to win back the Hilary voters that have been swinging Palin's way.
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:08 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I thought he was just being nice...
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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i seriously doubt that any clinton voters are inclined to vote for mc-cain because of sarah palin. the republicans apparently think that women in general are stupid: if that were not the case, there wouldn't even be the expectation floating about anywhere that palin's politics are irrelevant and only her gender-self is important.

on what biden said, i think he's right.
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I think it's transparent that the "one woman is as good as an other" Palin selection highlights the fundamental sexism of the McCain campaign and the old-guard GOP in general.

Biden was being diplomatic. He's the pick. He's abundantly qualified. Now you watch--lesser "gaffes" have been pounced on (or invented wholesale) by the McCain campaign. They'll ignore this one because it doesn't play to the sexism narrative they're trying to hump these days.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:01 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Biden
Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States,'' Biden said. ''She is qualified to be president of the United States of America. She is easily qualified to be vice president of the United States of America, and quite frankly, might've been a better pick than me.
I keep hearing people talk about Biden's ego, and maybe – no, probably – the man does have one. But I find myself wondering how big that ego really is and how much of a problem it might actually be, considering this quote here. Because, for a man of his age and stature, i.e. a man old enough to have been brought up amongst the vestiges of the old school of politics and business, to admit before the world that a woman is as qualified as he and might've even been a better pick than him, is a pretty humble thing for him to say.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:19 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ratbastid View Post
I think it's transparent that the "one woman is as good as an other" Palin selection highlights the fundamental sexism of the McCain campaign and the old-guard GOP in general.

Biden was being diplomatic. He's the pick. He's abundantly qualified. Now you watch--lesser "gaffes" have been pounced on (or invented wholesale) by the McCain campaign. They'll ignore this one because it doesn't play to the sexism narrative they're trying to hump these days.
Seemed like a stupid thing to say to me. I can see the ads now "Even Biden thought Obama's pick was wrong... and he was the pick."

But you're right this doesn't play well with the whole "they're sexist" BS the McCain camps being mining.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:25 AM   #7 (permalink)
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It doesn't matter who says what for the dems. The McCain campaign is just going to make things up and take things way out of context. The McCain campaign is running the most dishonest campaign I have ever seen. What I don't understand is how the Christian conservatives openly support someone who consistently disregards the 9th commandment.
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Old 09-11-2008, 07:22 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rekna View Post
The McCain campaign is running the most dishonest campaign I have ever seen.
+1, but:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renka
What I don't understand is how the Christian conservatives openly support someone who consistently disregards the 9th commandment.
This doesn't actually surprise me in the slightest.
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I don't know the 2004 Bush campaign was really something.


And no I'm not surprised the religious right jumps on train. They hit the hot button issues of abortion and gay rights and the rest of the bible gets nearly ignored. I have a brother sister pair that live around the corner from me, they're from Florida originally. They watch "Pray TV" nearly no stop. They're convinced Obama is the devil and someone should "take him out." Why? Well mainly because Obama is a Muslim who really wants to increase the number of abortions in the US thus reducing the population. That will make it easier for the Godless Muslims to take over the US. You think these two came up with this on their own or is it possible the smiling TV preachers they watch spoon fed them this crap?
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:39 AM   #10 (permalink)
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This Palin attention bullshit is dancing on my last nerve. Everyone's freaking out over McCain choosing her, and that's what the terrorists want. They want Palin in the news 24/7. They want her name to be on the tip of everyone's tongues, and Joe is just reinforcing that by freaking out about her with everyone else. Would Hillary have been a smart choice? Yeah, if Obama was only interested in winning.
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:32 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by roachboy View Post
i seriously doubt that any clinton voters are inclined to vote for mc-cain because of sarah palin. the republicans apparently think that women in general are stupid: if that were not the case, there wouldn't even be the expectation floating about anywhere that palin's politics are irrelevant and only her gender-self is important.

on what biden said, i think he's right.
I do know one embittered and racist Clinton supporter who claims to be impressed by Palin. We think Tante's opinion is 98/100ths racism, but she claims to be motivated by feminism. This is an 84 yr. old woman who spent WWII in Nazi camps. She thinks Obama is Hitlerian. I have a hard time telling whether she is serious or whether she's just trying to wind people up by repeating the bullshit in GOP TV spots.

McCain himself is a lifelong misogynist who has no credibility at all on this issue. In fact, as even conservative pundits have noted, he has no credibility at all. Period.
-----Added 11/9/2008 at 02 : 36 : 10-----
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willravel View Post
This Palin attention bullshit is dancing on my last nerve. Everyone's freaking out over McCain choosing her, and that's what the terrorists want.

[...]

Would Hillary have been a smart choice? Yeah, if Obama was only interested in winning.
I agree on the first part. Stop talking about her and more about that pandering ghoul at the top of the ticket and his pathetic non-programme.

I'm not sure if Hillary would have been a good choice even if Obama were only interested in winning. There were reasonable arguements against her. (And would she have taken it? I don't think that's a given either).

Last edited by guyy; 09-11-2008 at 10:36 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:39 AM   #12 (permalink)
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She might not have taken it, you're right. If she did, though, the ticket would have been golden. They're have gotten 65% of the vote. Of course then they'd be deeply divided on important issues and Hillary would lead a coup.
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:43 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Tully Mars View Post
I have a brother sister pair that live around the corner from me, they're from Florida originally. They watch "Pray TV" nearly no stop. They're convinced Obama is the devil and someone should "take him out." Why? Well mainly because Obama is a Muslim who really wants to increase the number of abortions in the US thus reducing the population. That will make it easier for the Godless Muslims to take over the US. You think these two came up with this on their own or is it possible the smiling TV preachers they watch spoon fed them this crap?
Mother. Of. God.

Jesus, please save me from your followers... (yes, yes, you all know that I don't think all Christians are that way--but seriously, WTF?)
Quote:
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one embittered and racist Clinton supporter who claims to be impressed by Palin.
These are the people who, quite frankly, freak me the fuck out about the outcome of this election. And I'm afraid that there are far more of them than we even hesitate to believe are out there.
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:47 AM   #14 (permalink)
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If McCain wins, I may take an 8 year trip to Iceland. I've been wanting to see those geothermal power plants for a while now....
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Old 09-11-2008, 11:15 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Willravel View Post
If McCain wins, I may take an 8 year trip to Iceland. I've been wanting to see those geothermal power plants for a while now....
Vancouver's hosting the Winter Games in a couple of years....

Oh, and I just wanted to add that I doubt you could ever get "the best choice" for this kind of thing. It's a bit of a lottery if you think about it (in terms of odds of being one of millions who would one day have a shot at the VP seat). What characteristics would make one the best choice? It's pretty subjective, no?
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Old 09-11-2008, 11:56 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Whether Biden was Obama's best choice for VP depends on what the VP slot is supposed to accomplish. Different presidential candidates have different views on this. I infer from Obama's decision not to tap Hillary that he intends to use the VP as an adviser and confidante, in addition to choosing someone who he thinks will be a credible president if something happens. Obama sees Biden as filling both roles, and I find that to be a plausible decision. While Hillary certainly would be a credible president, my guess is that Obama really can't abide her and doesn't feel he can run the presidency the way he would want if she was around, especially since she'd be trailing her attention-hog husband behind her. Biden wouldn't be nearly as distracting or annoying. This is just my read of the situation - I have no "in" to the campaign.

With a different set of factors dominating the decision, Biden arguably is not as good a choice. It's clear, for example, that McCain didn't use those factors - he thinks he'll last out his term and that Palin will gain seasoning as VP for a future run. He chose her, IMHO, because he likes her political profile and charisma, and he thinks she can help him win the election. The job itself isn't worth a bucket of warm piss, as John Nance Garner said (the first VP, John Adams, had similar choice words about the Vice Presidency), so he made a political choice. Biden brings Delaware, but does he bring Catholics? Is his working class cred really what it's cracked up to be? There has been lots of talk about this, and maybe it's just that I have seen Biden in action for 30 years now, but I don't see him as a plebeian at all - even though he's originally from Scranton. So I just cant' see BHO having chosen Biden from a politically strategic point of view. Then again, what do I know, this is all speculation and subjective impression-mongering.
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Old 09-11-2008, 12:47 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Obama had a "meeting" with Bill Clinton today. Perhaps Joe Biden will suddenly become ill or have family responsibilities requiring him to step down immediately, letting Hillary step in.

It's crazy enough to happen.
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Old 09-11-2008, 01:02 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ottopilot View Post
Obama had a "meeting" with Bill Clinton today. Perhaps Joe Biden will suddenly become ill or have family responsibilities requiring him to step down immediately, letting Hillary step in.

It's crazy enough to happen.
And Sarah might suddenly NEED to spend more time with her family too... but not likely.
-----Added 11/9/2008 at 05 : 21 : 55-----
Quote:
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Mother. Of. God.

Jesus, please save me from your followers... (yes, yes, you all know that I don't think all Christians are that way--but seriously, WTF?)
These are the people who, quite frankly, freak me the fuck out about the outcome of this election. And I'm afraid that there are far more of them than we even hesitate to believe are out there.

I spent a little over at the brother's house trying to install some anti-virus software for him. He had some preacher on the TV. Italian suit, big prefect smile and must have reminded his viewers and attendees five times how to make out their checks correctly. Also if they want to right off the donation they'll need a receipt so be sure to make the check out to the church and not him directly. If you do accidentally make the check out to him he'll make sure it'll find it way to where it's needed most, you just can't write it off then.

I know lots of very smart church going people, people who wouldn't fall for this type of skin oil salesman... ever. But after all the scandals and BS associated with the TV scam artist preachers I can't for the life me understand why anyone would send them money. Obviously they do or they wouldn't be on the air.
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Last edited by Tully Mars; 09-11-2008 at 01:21 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 09-12-2008, 08:02 AM   #19 (permalink)
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If McCain wins, I may take an 8 year trip to Iceland. I've been wanting to see those geothermal power plants for a while now....
If Obama wins, the more financially well-heeled of us may take their money and jobs overseas.

No one in that group would tolerate going back to a 91% tax rate, and 50% on capital gains, especially when half the population would be paying NO taxes.
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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If Obama wins, the more financially well-heeled of us may take their money and jobs overseas.

No one in that group would tolerate going back to a 91% tax rate, and 50% on capital gains, especially when half the population would be paying NO taxes.
That's strange, because I've seen numerous fiscally conservative Republicans publicly support Obama. One of the reasons cited is the fact that he runs his campaign like a traditional Republican in terms of spending whereas McCain was running a deficit campaign. Many also viewed the Bush policies reckless and out of control spending and warring as particularly troublesome. McCain is a continuation of those policies, according to them. I've read about them as well as seen powerful Republicans publicly state their support on news shows.

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Old 09-12-2008, 04:40 PM   #21 (permalink)
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If Obama wins, the more financially well-heeled of us may take their money and jobs overseas.
You mean, those of you who haven't already?
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Old 09-12-2008, 04:42 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I am interested in who will have a smaller government (Financially speaking), and a balanced budget. And I don't care if I have to pay $500/year in new taxes for healthcare to a non-profit national style plan instead of $1000/year in pre-tax dollars to a private for-profit company. My company would like it too knowing that our competitors had to pay the same amount for each of their employees. The savings would come from increased efficiency and not having to please shareholders with bigger returns and instead having to please voters and people receiving the care.
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Old 09-13-2008, 12:17 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I think it's transparent that the "one woman is as good as an other" Palin selection highlights the fundamental sexism of the McCain campaign and the old-guard GOP in general.

Biden was being diplomatic. He's the pick. He's abundantly qualified. Now you watch--lesser "gaffes" have been pounced on (or invented wholesale) by the McCain campaign. They'll ignore this one because it doesn't play to the sexism narrative they're trying to hump these days.

If you consider the selection of Palin to be sexism, then unless you are extremely hypocritical, you MUST consider affirmative action to be racist.
-----Added 13/9/2008 at 04 : 24 : 19-----
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That's strange, because I've seen numerous fiscally conservative Republicans publicly support Obama. One of the reasons cited is the fact that he runs his campaign like a traditional Republican in terms of spending whereas McCain was running a deficit campaign. Many also viewed the Bush policies reckless and out of control spending and warring as particularly troublesome. McCain is a continuation of those policies, according to them. I've read about them as well as seen powerful Republicans publicly state their support on news shows.

Welcome to Republicans for Obama | Republicans for Obama
Republicans For Obama , The Nation: "Obamicans" Are Throwbacks To The Days Of Traditional Republicanism - CBS News
Peter Wehner - Why Republicans Like Obama - washingtonpost.com
I know many hard-core Repblicans who despise McCain. They and others despise Bush as well, because his abhorrent spending policies remind them of Democratic practices. McCain's choice of Palin was very clever, because it brought many of the above back into the fold, and took a stab at the female vote.

I can think of no other choice that would have energized his campaign nearly as much.

Last edited by GonadWarrior; 09-13-2008 at 12:25 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 09-19-2008, 11:41 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I know... it sounds wacky, but I'm still predicting Joe Biden will somehow justify stepping down to allow Hillary to join the ticket. The shockwave will create a huge boost in Obama's favor. McCain/Palin could never recover.

october surprize?
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Old 09-19-2008, 12:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You know, whenever I hear someone talk about how Obama NEEDS Hilary as V-P or was stupid to have not chosen her, it's almost always a Republican. I wonder why that is.
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Old 09-19-2008, 12:41 PM   #26 (permalink)
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If you consider the selection of Palin to be sexism, then unless you are extremely hypocritical, you MUST consider affirmative action to be racist.
Oy vey. Let me spell this out for you in the plainest way I can:

1) Hooray for giving a plucky hocky-mom a hand up. Yay for that.

2) Boo for thinking the great mass of silly giggle-headed women will fall in line and she'll be their new Hillary just because she has a uterus.

The only possible analogy to affirmative action is that this is like giving ONE black guy an executive level job, then saying, "Ya see, Rufus? We does right by the black man! Come and set on our porch a spell!"
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:11 PM   #27 (permalink)
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You know, whenever I hear someone talk about how Obama NEEDS Hilary as V-P or was stupid to have not chosen her, it's almost always a Republican. I wonder why that is.
I guess that might apply if I were Republican. I didn't say that Obama needs Hillary, but you'd have to admit that the race is very close. I hope that Obama supporters represented in polls are honest in their answers. What percentage will actually cast that vote in private? Unfortunately, race is a factor. Ethnic candidates tend to loose a substantial number of actual votes in the voting booth regardless of how progressive voters claim to be. With polls as close as they are, Obama needs all the help he can get.
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Old 09-19-2008, 02:08 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I don't know if Joe was the right choice but I believe that not selecting Hillary was. It is my opinion that her negatives exceed her positives with swing voters. She would do well with Democrats but for some reason there seems to be a large percentage of the population that does not like her and would be hard to overcome in a general election. Also it would be harder to be the change candidate while putting another Clinton in the White House. It's hard to do even with Biden.
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