Has McCain gone too far? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Derwood · 10-21-2008, 08:37 AM

His latest mailing:

Jonathan Martin's Blog: RNC raises specter of 9/11 attacks - Politico.com

aceventura3 · 10-21-2008, 08:41 AM

Has Biden gone to far given his latest gaffe?

Quote:

"Remember I said it standing here. if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy. And he's gonna have to make some really tough -- I don't know what the decision's gonna be, but I promise you it will occur. As a student of history and having served with seven presidents, I guarantee you it's gonna happen,"

Biden: Obama Will be 'Tested' by World in First 6 Months of Administration - FOXNews.com Elections

Cynthetiq · 10-21-2008, 08:45 AM

-+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+-

c'mon guys... how is this any kind of discussion?

Derwood, let's try to keep this in some sort of discussion format, otherwise, it's worthy of Found on the Net.

Same goes for you Ace

dc_dux · 10-21-2008, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

Has Biden gone to far given his latest gaffe?

I see Biden's comment as a reflection of recent history.

Carter had the Iran militants takeover of the US embassy. Reagan had the terrorist bombing of the marine barracks in Beirut. Bush 41 had the Iraq invasion of Kuwait and the first Gulf war. Clinton had Bosnia and Somalia.

The next president will have an international crisis...it may not be in the first six months, but the president will be tested on international affairs.

I prefer a thoughtful person who seeks the input of those around him and considers the consequences of acting before dismissing options over a hot tempered reactionary who thinks he knows it all and rarely listens to dissenting opinions.

Willravel · 10-21-2008, 08:59 AM

"Terrorists" do care who they hurt. That's kinda the point.

Derwood · 10-21-2008, 09:06 AM

Sorry, I forgot the rule about starting the discussion.

I think it's one thing for McCain to allow Palin to throw the "pals around with terrorists" line out at her rallies (though I think it's pretty low), but to have an organized mailing that portrays an airplane and a ransom note styled font, etc. is really over the line. This makes Swift Boat and "McCain has a black baby" look like nothing. McCain promised he'd run his campaign on the high road, but he's become the dirtiest player of all. When questioned about it, he says "well, it's a tough campaign, but if Obama had just done the town hall meetings...." Pathetic.

When will Americans say "enough is enough" with this level of campaigning?

guyy · 10-21-2008, 10:15 AM

Has McCain gone too far?

Yes, of course he has gone too far. He and his surrogates are using a McCarthyite campaign of red-baiting innuendo together with Nixonian racism. They've been playing to the know-nothing faction of the American right. Look at Michelle Bachmann. She didn't even have the courage to say that Obama or anyone else was un-American, she "merely suggested" that it might be the case. Disgusting. McCain distanced himself from racist supporters in Minnesota -- in a cleverly racist way that allows him to continue to benefit from the whispering campaign. Here's what he said: "No, ma'am. He's a decent family man [and] citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign's all about. He's not [an Arab]." If he truly wished to disavow the racist elements of his supporters, he needed to say something like Colin Powell did on Sunday.

People say he's not a racist, but what do you call a person who allows these statements to be made in his name and says nothing to stop it?

It's an odd choice of strategies. As if Obama weren't enough, he's motivating African-Americans like never before. The racism of his campaign is killing him in places like NM and Colorado. He's losing the Hispanic vote by about 70 - 20, and that's not going to improve. Bush did much better with Hispanics.

ottopilot · 10-21-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

I see Biden's comment as a reflection of recent history.

It may be coincidental that his comments came after both candidates began receiving presidential FBI security briefings. This is a first... the briefings are always presented after the inauguration. Joe may have gotten caught up in the moment and said something he shouldn't.

Quote:

FBI begins briefing Obama, McCain aides on national security
Washington | October 20, 2008 10:11:53 AM IST

Aides to Barack Obama and John McCain are being briefed on national security threats well before inauguration day.

For the first time in American history
, according to Fox News, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is vetting members of the next administration in an effort to make sure that staff members of John McCain or Barack Obama are ready to handle any national security threats, which ever one of them takes over as president.

Though no specific threats are evident at this time, some members of the intelligence community say terror groups love to target countries during transition periods. They point to terror attacks that came as Gordon Brown took over as Britain's new prime minister, and the Madrid bombings of March 11, 2003, that happened just before a major election there as examples of the vulnerability of new administrations.

White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten reportedly held a meeting this week with senior White House staffers and representatives from both the McCain and Obama camps. The goal was to make sure everyone knows of the latest threats and has the information they need before inauguration day on January 20, 2009.

"One of them is going to win the election, and they will be taking over and having to deal with these issues as they take over office. So, it's only prudent for us to make sure that we get them the information that we think they need," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said during her Friday briefing.

This year, the presidential transition coordinating council-brought together by President Bush-has gotten started at its earliest date ever with the aim of preventing the next president from being caught in the same dilemma Bush faced on September 11. 2001.he incoming administration will have more than 1,100 political appointees that will have to be approved by the Senate. That takes time.

Obama's team has reportedly given special emphasis to not only being ready for national security threats but also being seen as being ready-as a message to anyone who would hope to take advantage of the transition of power.

Former Clinton White House Chief of Staff John Podesta is heading up about a dozen different groups to organize the future potential administration.

On the other side of the ticket, dozens of potential McCain staffers are also undergoing FBI vetting, though transition planning on the McCain side is believed to be occurring on a much smaller scale than the Obama camp. (ANI)

news.webindia123.com

Based on Biden's October 18th speech where he asks the crowd to "gird their "loins" and "mark his words" because Obama will be tested by a "generated threat" within the first 6 months of his presidency, it sounds more like they've been "briefed" on plausible scenarios. Interesting.

abaya · 10-21-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guyy

Here's what he said: "No, ma'am. He's a decent family man [and] citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign's all about. He's not [an Arab]." If he truly wished to disavow the racist elements of his supporters, he needed to say something like Colin Powell did on Sunday.

He most definitely did not make the right response, even though he was right that Obama is not an Arab... that's not the point. I'm married to an Arab, and one that will be voting soon... not that he would ever vote for McCain, anyway. Seriously, I don't understand why these big, bad politicians can't just step up and be the bigger man for once, and say, "No, he's not Muslim, he's not Arab... but so what if he was? Why should that matter to you?" THAT would get some fucking attention in the Republican party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guyy

People say he's not a racist, but what do you call a person who allows these statements to be made in his name and says nothing to stop it?

Machiavellian.

mrklixx · 10-21-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Machiavellian.

Shouldn't that be "Mccainavillain".

roachboy · 10-21-2008, 02:09 PM

it wouldn't necessarily be surprising were something to happen because, thanks to the bush administration and to it alone, the united states is in an extremely weak position politically. anyone who thinks about this would reach the same conclusion.

so the surprise is that the mc-cain campaign actually touched this issue, not to mention tried to turn it to some imaginary advantage.

i would like to see mc-cain say **something** to distance himself from the racist horseshit that's been circulating in the context of his campaign concerning muslims in general, arabs in particular. but i'm not holding my breath.

smooth · 10-21-2008, 02:14 PM

I absolutely love Biden's "gaffe"...but not as much as I love the right's full throated chomping at the bait.
Every time they latch on to his supposed off-message, the conversation immediately turns to discussion over Powell's endorsement.
If there was any evidence of effective campaigning by Obama, I'd say it was intentional...oh, erm...

abaya · 10-21-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrklixx

Shouldn't that be "Mccainavillain".

Ha! Not bad.

asaris · 10-22-2008, 04:50 AM

I don't really see the big deal. There are two plausible readings of Biden's statement:

1. Someone out there is going to see a new president as a good opportunity to try something funny. I don't really see why this is implausible.

2. The right-wing media is going to, through spin, manufacture a crisis for Obama to 'fail'. This is perhaps a bit sillier than the first reading, but not really all that silly.

The right-wing/Palin spin, that Biden is somehow calling Obama inexperienced and not ready, I really don't see in the statement at all.

hunnychile · 10-23-2008, 02:47 PM

Word of the week: post-turtle

A 75-year-old Texas rancher recently explained this term to a country doctor.
The conversation turned to the US election, and Sarah Palin's vice-presidential candidacy, and the old rancher observed: “Well, ya know, Palin is a "post-turtle".
The bemused doctor asked what a post-turtle was, and the old man replied:
When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post-turtle. The rancher continued: You know she didn't get up there by herself, she doesn't belong up there, she doesn't know what to do while she is up there, and you just wonder what kind of dumb ass put her up there to begin with".

10-21-2008, 08:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	Has McCain gone too far? His latest mailing: Jonathan Martin's Blog: RNC raises specter of 9/11 attacks - Politico.com

10-21-2008, 02:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	it wouldn't necessarily be surprising were something to happen because, thanks to the bush administration and to it alone, the united states is in an extremely weak position politically. anyone who thinks about this would reach the same conclusion. so the surprise is that the mc-cain campaign actually touched this issue, not to mention tried to turn it to some imaginary advantage. i would like to see mc-cain say something to distance himself from the racist horseshit that's been circulating in the context of his campaign concerning muslims in general, arabs in particular. but i'm not holding my breath. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

10-21-2008, 02:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	I absolutely love Biden's "gaffe"...but not as much as I love the right's full throated chomping at the bait. Every time they latch on to his supposed off-message, the conversation immediately turns to discussion over Powell's endorsement. If there was any evidence of effective campaigning by Obama, I'd say it was intentional...oh, erm... __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

10-22-2008, 04:50 AM	#14 (permalink)
asaris Mad Philosopher Location: Washington, DC	I don't really see the big deal. There are two plausible readings of Biden's statement: 1. Someone out there is going to see a new president as a good opportunity to try something funny. I don't really see why this is implausible. 2. The right-wing media is going to, through spin, manufacture a crisis for Obama to 'fail'. This is perhaps a bit sillier than the first reading, but not really all that silly. The right-wing/Palin spin, that Biden is somehow calling Obama inexperienced and not ready, I really don't see in the statement at all. __________________ "Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht." "The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

10-23-2008, 02:47 PM	#15 (permalink)
hunnychile Alien Anthropologist Location: Between Boredom and Nirvana	Word of the week: post-turtle A 75-year-old Texas rancher recently explained this term to a country doctor. The conversation turned to the US election, and Sarah Palin's vice-presidential candidacy, and the old rancher observed: “Well, ya know, Palin is a "post-turtle". The bemused doctor asked what a post-turtle was, and the old man replied: When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post-turtle. The rancher continued: You know she didn't get up there by herself, she doesn't belong up there, she doesn't know what to do while she is up there, and you just wonder what kind of dumb ass put her up there to begin with". __________________ "I need compassion, understanding and chocolate." - NJB

10-21-2008, 08:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	"Terrorists" do care who they hurt. That's kinda the point.

10-21-2008, 09:06 AM	#6 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	Sorry, I forgot the rule about starting the discussion. I think it's one thing for McCain to allow Palin to throw the "pals around with terrorists" line out at her rallies (though I think it's pretty low), but to have an organized mailing that portrays an airplane and a ransom note styled font, etc. is really over the line. This makes Swift Boat and "McCain has a black baby" look like nothing. McCain promised he'd run his campaign on the high road, but he's become the dirtiest player of all. When questioned about it, he says "well, it's a tough campaign, but if Obama had just done the town hall meetings...." Pathetic. When will Americans say "enough is enough" with this level of campaigning?

10-21-2008, 10:15 AM	#7 (permalink)
guyy Addict Location: Cottage Grove, Wisconsin	Has McCain gone too far? Yes, of course he has gone too far. He and his surrogates are using a McCarthyite campaign of red-baiting innuendo together with Nixonian racism. They've been playing to the know-nothing faction of the American right. Look at Michelle Bachmann. She didn't even have the courage to say that Obama or anyone else was un-American, she "merely suggested" that it might be the case. Disgusting. McCain distanced himself from racist supporters in Minnesota -- in a cleverly racist way that allows him to continue to benefit from the whispering campaign. Here's what he said: "No, ma'am. He's a decent family man [and] citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign's all about. He's not [an Arab]." If he truly wished to disavow the racist elements of his supporters, he needed to say something like Colin Powell did on Sunday. People say he's not a racist, but what do you call a person who allows these statements to be made in his name and says nothing to stop it? It's an odd choice of strategies. As if Obama weren't enough, he's motivating African-Americans like never before. The racism of his campaign is killing him in places like NM and Colorado. He's losing the Hispanic vote by about 70 - 20, and that's not going to improve. Bush did much better with Hispanics.