Halx

Ok, McCain is trailing Obama by a large amount in initial polls. There is speculation that an attack or catastrophe may happen between now and Nov 4, or even between now and Jan 20th. This catastrophe would be used as a political tool to either swing the vote in McCain's direction by some spin, or to give justification to Pres Bush to retain power and give him authority past his lame duck period. It doesn't have to be a catastrophe, it could be something that completely tarnishes the reputation of Obama in order to swing the vote in the other direction - like an affair with Janet Jackson or an AIDS diagnosis.

If this were to happen, would you call shenanigans?

Feeling as secure as you may be with the reality that you see before you, how convinced would you be that the fix was on if this reality was completely shifted in the coming weeks?

I know I would feel directly manipulated. I would join the revolution.

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Willravel

One way or the other, Bush will be out of power after January 20th. I'm not worried about that.

McCain I am concerned about, but I'm more concerned about vote tampering than a false flag or a red herring. It's been frighteningly successful in the past 2 elections.

lostgirl

"Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is it vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished, as the once vital voice of the verisimilitude now venerates what they once vilified. However, this valorous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose vis-à-vis an introduction, and so it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V."

djtestudo

They already did the AIDS diagnosis plot line on House...

I think if it went to your second scenario (President Bush attempting to remain in power) it would fail anyway from a complete breakdown in the government and legal system (Congress would impeach, he would have to try and arrest the Congress and a Supreme Court that no matter the accusations and beliefs of detractors wouldn't continue with any party line that goes that far).

As for the first, the question would have to be how you could know the legitimacy of what happens? And if it (being legitimate) causes people to switch their votes, then maybe they SHOULD be voting that way anyway if they are that worried, or just shouldn't be voting at all.

I think this IS paranoia, but I will say that there is no excuse or explanation short of military invasion of the mainland United States by a sovereign nation for a breach of the Constitution like is being proposed, and I know as someone who voted once (twice had I been old enough) for Bush and likely will for McCain that I wouldn't stand for it.

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dc_dux

I am not concerned about some potential catastrophe to occur that would sway voters....that "October surprise" came early this year with the economic meltdown..and that did turn the tide of the election.

What I am most concerned about is frustration, anger, resentment reaching levels that could get ugly if voters feel that they are being disenfranchised.

By most projections, this election will have the highest voter turnout in years....approaching or exceeding 70% (which is extraordinary for the US...not so much in other countries) with millions of first time voters who dont know what to expect.

And despited claims to the contrary, it is the Republican strategy to suppress as many voters as they can, particularly minority voters. They have already played the ACORN card. They are playing the "if your house was foreclosed, you cant vote" card in several battle ground states, etc.

Next, they will have operatives all over the polls in swing states, looking over the shoulders of "selective" voters for the smallest ways to challenge a vote....things like challenging the right to vote if the voter registration ID does not "match" a state dvm list because the middle name was left out, and demanding that those voters use provisional ballots. Democratic operatives will be all over these polling places as well.

A key component of the Obama strategy is trying to get as many voters as they can to vote before Nov 4 where permitted....and it working at unprecedented levels which should help alleviate the Republican suppression tactics.

A story by RFK Jr. in Rolling Stone sums up the potential problems pretty well.

Block the Vote : Rolling Stone
RFK Jr? Rolling Stone? Yeah, I can hear our republican tfp colleagues now.

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Baraka_Guru

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jewels

I'm feeling slightly paranoid, halx.

I thought it was just us Floridians that felt that way.

Those last two elections were ours, ya know.

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tisonlyi

The 'october surprise' was an is the financial crisis.

It has more than a few hands to be played yet.

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samcol

I love it. Such an awesome movie.

In all seriousness to the OP, I can imagine anything happening at this point. What's sad is none of these paranoid outcomes would actually suprise me due to how crazy things have been the last 8 years.

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guyy

Exactly. McCain had a chance but all he did was attack Obama. I don't see how an attack would benefit McCain at this point. He's made himself look petty, indecisive, and impetuous, not to mention ill-informed. I think an attack would only amplify Obama's lead.

ratbastid

If the response to a hypothetical attack would be anything like the response to the economic crisis, Obama would be presidential and composed, McCain would try to blame Obama and veer all over the map, and Obama would gain another ten points in the polls.

This cat's in the bag. But we can't say that too loud because we actually NEED that 70% voter turnout.

ASU2003

What I'm worried about is if some crazy racist takes a shot at Obama. The secret service better be on high alert and do a good job.

I don't think that anything else would cause too big of a problem to keep people from voting.

mcgeedo

OK, token Conservative weighing in...

Is there anything other than Hillary's "vast right wing conspiracy" and RFK's article in Rolling Stone, is there any credible evidence for vote tampering? Other than the documented felonies committed by ACORN, I mean.

dc_dux

Much of the voter suppression tactics are not expressly illegal....simply unethical.

But there were the court judgments in Ohio and Michigan that the voter caging practices by the state Republican parties was illegal.

If you go back a few years, you have the conviction of a RNC official in NH and documented voting roll purges in OH and FL.

And still there have been NO documented felonies committed by ACORN.

But the US DOJ is still investigating whether its attorneys were used illegal for political purposes to pursue non-existent voter fraud cases with the underlying intent of suppressing minority voters....you may recall those who didnt go along with the Rove/Gonzales plan were fired in the US attorney scandal.

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mcgeedo

"And still there have been NO documented felonies committed by ACORN."

I suppose it does depend on your definition of "documented felony," doesn't it? Which county in Ohio was it that had more registered voters than census-counted population?

dc_dux

mcgredo...no, I think documented felony is pretty clear.

There have been none.

Its not a felony to turn in questionable voter registrations to the state.` In fact the opposite is true....You do understand that ACORN or any voter advocacy organization is required by law to submit any voter registration form it receives (even Mickey Mouse). And ACORN separates the questionable registrations when it submits them.
-----Added 25/10/2008 at 06 : 07 : 57-----
Preventing people from voting because their house has been foreclosed (Repubican attempt in OH and MI) is the illegal practice.

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mcgeedo

Ummmmm...

BAM STAFFERS PULL THEIR BOGUS OHIO BALLOTS - New York Post

And you're absolutely correct. ACORN canvassers are REQUIRED by law to turn in those bogus registrations that they have bribed people to fill out.

dc_dux

mcgreedo...can you document the "bribery" charges you are alleging about ACORN canvassers?

On the "temp" staff of both campaigns in OH, the NY Post article mentions the Obama staff members who pulled their registrations because they were "temp" residents....after both campaigns were warned/

It doesnt mention the several out-of-state McCain staff "temp residents" who already voted in OH and several others with questionable registrations like the Obama "temps."
-----Added 25/10/2008 at 06 : 59 : 20-----

More from Ohio and Michigan:

After the Republicans failed to force as many as 200,000 newly-registered voters in Ohio to cast provisional ballots (it was rejected last week by the US Supreme Court.)....the (Democratic) Ohio Secretary of State has received death threats and had the agency's website hacked.

Ohio secretary of state's Web site hacked - CNN.com

In Michigan, the two campaigns and national/state parties agreed to a settlement that will not allow foreclosure lists to be used to prevent residents from voting.....although the Repub party claimed that was never their intent.

GOP vows not to use foreclosure lists at polls

The biggest difference this year is that the Democrats are challenging potential Republican suppression tactics (like those in OH and MI) BEFORE the election rather than after the fact...they learned from their mistakes in 04.

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