Jane Harman: Portrait of a Fucking Hypocrite - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Willravel · 04-22-2009, 10:58 AM

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Jane Harman: Angry, partisan, civil liberties extremist

Blue Dog Rep. Jane Harman -- once the most vigorous Democratic cheerleader of Bush's NSA warrantless eavesdropping program -- is rip-roarin' angry today. Apparently, her private conversations were eavesdropped on by the U.S. Government! This is a grave outrage that, as she told Andrea Mitchell just moments ago, demands a probing investigation:

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That's what I asked Attorney General Holder to do -- to release any tapes, I don't know whether they were legally made or not, of my conservations about this matter . . . and to hope that he will investigate whether other members of Congress or other innocent Americans might have been subject to this same treatment. I call it an abuse of power in the letter I wrote him this morning. . . .

I'm just very disappointed that my country -- I'm an American citizen just like you are -- could have permitted what I think is a gross abuse of power in recent years. I'm one member of Congress who may be caught up in it, and I have a bully pulpit and I can fight back. I'm thinking about others who have no bully pulpit, who may not be aware, as I was not, that someone is listening in on their conversations, and they're innocent Americans.

So if I understand this correctly -- and I'm pretty sure I do -- when the U.S. Government eavesdropped for years on American citizens with no warrants and in violation of the law, that was "both legal and necessary" as well as "essential to U.S. national security," and it was the "despicable" whistle-blowers (such as Thomas Tamm) who disclosed that crime and the newspapers which reported it who should have been criminally investigated, but not the lawbreaking government officials. But when the U.S. Government legally and with warrants eavesdrops on Jane Harman, that is an outrageous invasion of privacy and a violent assault on her rights as an American citizen, and full-scale investigations must be commenced immediately to get to the bottom of this abuse of power. Behold Jane Harman's overnight transformation from Very Serious Champion of the Lawless Surveillance State to shrill civil liberties extremist.

But I'm really wondering: as serious as it is when a member of Congress is the target of government eavesdropping, can we really afford to investigate this? After all, we have so many very important things to do. It really seems like we need to be looking forward, not backwards. The Bush administration is gone. This all happened in 2005 -- years ago. Is this really a time to be pursuing grudges, to be re-litigating old disputes? What kind of partisan witch hunt is Harman after? We can, and surely should, reflect on what happened to her -- in fact, let us now pause together for a moment of quiet reflection on what was done to Jane Harman -- but this is not a time for retribution or looking back. "Most Americans" want the people's business done, not "abuse of power" investigations.

Besides, if Jane Harman didn't do anything wrong -- as she claims -- then what does she have to hide? Only Terrorists and criminals would mind the Government listening in. We all know that government officials have better things to do than worry about what innocent Americans are saying. If she did nothing wrong -- if all she was doing was talking to her nice constituents and AIPAC supporters about how she could be of service -- then Bush officials obviously weren't interested in what she had to say.

Beyond that, even if there were "illegal" acts committed here, surely we should be rushing to retroactively immunize those responsible, just as Harman eagerly advocated and engineered and then voted for when it came to the telecoms who broke our laws and enabled illegal spying on American citizens. That was when she voted to gut FISA protections and massively expand the Government's power to eavesdrop on Americans with no warrants as part of the Cheney/Rockefeller/Hoyer Surveillance State celebration known as the "FISA Amendments Act of 2008."

Ultimately, even if a few so-called "laws" were "broken," surely the people who did it were acting to protect us from possible foreign espionage. Are we now going to start subjecting the good men and women working to keep us safe to harassing, expensive investigations every time some member of Congress pipes up and claims they were victimized by "illegal" acts? Think how overly cautious our intelligence community will become, what that will do to morale, how much it will handcuff us in our Wars. And if, at the end of the day, all of this doesn't convice the "Rule of Law" purists among us to let bygones be bygones, I'm sure all reasonable and decent people can at least agree that the methods our government uses to eavesdrop on us are among the most sacred State Secrets that exist, and thus simply cannot and must not be reviewed by any tribunal for legality and propriety lest we all become deeply vulnerable to the Terrorists.

Jane Harman is so shrill and angry today. She sounds like some sort of unhinged leftist blogger. As The Washington Post's Dana Milbank so insightfully asked this week, what could any Democrat possibly have to be angry about? After all, they won. I wonder how long it's going to be before Harman joins the ACLU? What's that old saying -- a "civil liberties extremist" is a former Bush-enabling, Surveillance State-defending Blue Dog who learns that their own personal conversations were intercepted by the same government that they demanded be vested with unchecked power:

msnbc.com Video Player

You may know Jane Harman from the recent AIPAC Israeli spy debacle, and now this pro-wiretapping Bush-baby is suddenly faced with the consequences of LEGAL wiretapping. I hope she burns for this, and I hope it serves as a lesson for anyone else waiting in the wings to follow in her footsteps.

inBOIL · 04-22-2009, 01:02 PM

To paraphrase Jon Stewart, does she experience cognitive dissonance? Or did she believe that wiretaps would magically only target the bad guys and leave good Americans alone?

Plan9 · 04-22-2009, 01:08 PM

I wish this was new, amazing... somehow shocking. My inner Holden Caulfield barely twitched.

This situation made me think of his one pearls of wisdom:

"I'm the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life. It's awful. If I'm on my way to the store to buy a magazine, even, and somebody asks me where I'm going, I'm liable to say I'm going to the opera. It's terrible."

Rekna · 04-22-2009, 01:28 PM

I think you might have it backwards. From my understanding she started supporting the wiretapping after she got caught on a wiretap and was blackmailed by the administration into supporting them or being prosecuted.

robot_parade · 04-22-2009, 08:31 PM

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Originally Posted by Rekna

I think you might have it backwards. From my understanding she started supporting the wiretapping after she got caught on a wiretap and was blackmailed by the administration into supporting them or being prosecuted.

Do you have a citation for this? Because blackmail is, you know, illegal.

Or it would be if it were done by a mere citizen and not one of the ruling class.

pan6467 · 04-22-2009, 08:37 PM

Why were there taps done? Especially if for legal reasons and with warrants? If she's not guilty of anything, then I'd be pissed off to and wonder why my lines were tapped.

Now, if she was a suspect in something, I could understand.

And who's administration authorized the taps Bush's or Obama's?

Far more to this story than what we may ever know.

Willravel · 04-22-2009, 08:49 PM

That taps on Representative Harman were legal. The Justice Department had been investigating a link between Harman and AIPAC (already under investigation for espionage), and the legal wiretaps yielded results; she very clearly said that she'd intervene in the Justice Department investigation on AIPAC's behalf, she offered to break the law and interfere with an ongoing espionage investigation.

dippin · 04-22-2009, 08:54 PM

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Originally Posted by pan6467

Why were there taps done? Especially if for legal reasons and with warrants? If she's not guilty of anything, then I'd be pissed off to and wonder why my lines were tapped.

Now, if she was a suspect in something, I could understand.

And who's administration authorized the taps Bush's or Obama's?

Far more to this story than what we may ever know.

As far as I know the taps where she was caught were not aimed at her, but at a suspected Israeli spy. Then she was caught in a call to this spy saying she would try to get the DOJ to go easy on two AIPAC members who were being accused of espionage as well.

Then the DOJ stepped in and stopped any investigation of her, even though in "normal" circumstances a congresswoman talking to a suspected spy about helping other suspected spies avoid justice would warrant one, because she was the main democrat supporting the NSA warrantless wiretap programs, and as such the Bush administration needed her to have bipartisan support.

pan6467 · 04-22-2009, 08:56 PM

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Originally Posted by dippin

As far as I know the taps where she was caught were not aimed at her, but at a suspected Israeli spy. Then she was caught in a call to this spy saying she would try to get the DOJ to go easy on two AIPAC members who were being accused of espionage as well.

Then the DOJ stepped in and stopped any investigation of her, even though in "normal" circumstances a congresswoman talking to a suspected spy about helping other suspected spies avoid justice would warrant one, because she was the main democrat supporting the NSA warrantless wiretap programs, and as such the Bush administration needed her to have bipartisan support.

Ah then yes, she needs to be strung up by her toes and put in the female version of Leavenworth.

Funny how stepping on others' rights will always bite you in the ass.

dksuddeth · 04-23-2009, 12:37 AM

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Originally Posted by Willravel

That taps on Representative Harman were legal. The Justice Department had been investigating a link between Harman and AIPAC (already under investigation for espionage), and the legal wiretaps yielded results; she very clearly said that she'd intervene in the Justice Department investigation on AIPAC's behalf, she offered to break the law and interfere with an ongoing espionage investigation.

tell the rest of the story will, why she made that offer and what AIPAC offered her for her assistance.

dippin · 04-23-2009, 07:14 AM

AIPAC had promised to lobby Nancy Pelosi to have Harman as chairwoman of the House Intelligence Committee and would raise funds for her reelection.

The entire CQ story is pretty detailed.

and some people still claim there is no Israel lobby in the US...

Willravel · 04-23-2009, 07:18 AM

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Originally Posted by dksuddeth

tell the rest of the story will, why she made that offer and what AIPAC offered her for her assistance.

From the second article I linked:

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In exchange for Harman’s help, the sources said, the suspected Israeli agent pledged to help lobby Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., then-House minority leader, to appoint Harman chair of the Intelligence Committee after the 2006 elections, which the Democrats were heavily favored to win.

Major scandal erupts involving Rep. Jane Harman, Alberto Gonzales and AIPAC - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com

Like virtually every other politician in history, she was more than willing to sell her soul for a position of power. Oh, but it gets better:

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[C]ontrary to reports that the Harman investigation was dropped for “lack of evidence,” it was Alberto R. Gonzales, President Bush’s top counsel and then attorney general, who intervened to stop the Harman probe.
Why? Because, according to three top former national security officials, Gonzales wanted Harman to be able to help defend the administration’s warrantless wiretapping program, which was about to break in The New York Times and engulf the White House. . . .

shakran · 04-23-2009, 07:19 AM

I heard her on a radio program the other day, royally pissed off because she'd never been informed that she was being wiretapped.

...

Who the hell informs the suspect that they're being monitored?

Clueless.

dksuddeth · 04-23-2009, 07:27 AM

so are we now going to prosecute her for corruption? or will she get the chance to resign and then sign million dollar book and movie deals?

Willravel · 04-23-2009, 07:33 AM

I haven't a clue. I would assume, since the investigation was not successfully impeded, it will continue until there is enough to prosecute, but you know how these things go. It could go either way at this point. If this were my congresswoman, I'd be screaming for impeachment from the rooftops, telling people on the street in my neighborhood, picketing around her offices, etc.

Tully Mars · 04-23-2009, 07:43 AM

I'd be shocked if I weren't so fucking sick of hearing about politicians getting caught in these actions. I wonder what the % of those caught as compared to those committing these crimes are? I'd bet less then 10%.

pan6467 · 04-23-2009, 08:10 AM

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Originally Posted by Tully Mars

I'd be shocked if I weren't so fucking sick of hearing about politicians getting caught in these actions. I wonder what the % of those caught as compared to those committing these crimes are? I'd bet less then 10%.

All anyone has to do is get pics or video of a congressperson doing something that will seriously threaten reelection and they will own that congressperson.

But I have faith in the majority of Congress and think very few are corrupt. It's just the minority bad apples we always hear about.

Willravel · 04-23-2009, 08:27 AM

We've got a recording of this congresswoman entering into a conspiracy by offering to impede a Justice Department espionage investigation on behalf of suspected Israeli spies in order to get a senior House position. You'd think this would be open and shut.

I'm sure Salon will continue to cover the story (though they seem to be stuck on the Shep Smith torture debate, like most other news outlets, for the time being).

scout · 04-24-2009, 01:34 AM

Harmon is a "blue dog democrat" and that's the only reason this story leaked. This happened years ago, before the 06 election. The far left has begun it's assault on the more moderate of the party. It's all downhill from here unless someone tightens the reigns.

Lobbying on someone's behalf in exchange for lobbying on your behalf is done every single day in Washington. It's hardly as serious as having a deep freeze full of bribery cash.

flstf · 04-24-2009, 05:36 AM

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Originally Posted by pan6467

But I have faith in the majority of Congress and think very few are corrupt. It's just the minority bad apples we always hear about.

Maybe I'm getting too cynical in my old age but my perception is the exact opposite.

dksuddeth · 04-24-2009, 06:06 AM

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Originally Posted by flstf

Maybe I'm getting too cynical in my old age but my perception is the exact opposite.

dippin · 04-24-2009, 06:36 AM

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Originally Posted by scout

Harmon is a "blue dog democrat" and that's the only reason this story leaked. This happened years ago, before the 06 election. The far left has begun it's assault on the more moderate of the party. It's all downhill from here unless someone tightens the reigns.

Lobbying on someone's behalf in exchange for lobbying on your behalf is done every single day in Washington. It's hardly as serious as having a deep freeze full of bribery cash.

So she is the victim here?

shakran · 04-24-2009, 06:44 AM

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Originally Posted by dippin

So she is the victim here?

no, that's a buncha crap. Even the DOJ has determined that she committed crimes, but Gonzales intervened because the Bush whitehouse wanted her credibility maintained since she was a democrat who spoke in favor of warrantless wiretapping.

This isn't an issue of lobbying other congresscritters trying to influence them. This is an issue of Harmon putting illegal pressure on the DOJ to back off of espionage charges against two members of the American/Israeli Public Affairs Committee, in exchange for which they'd try to get her a plum job in congress. It's illegal as hell, and she should be prosecuted for that.

She should also be drummed out of congress for being so in favor of warrantless wiretapping unless she's the victim of the wiretapping. I have little patience for hypocrites who think it's fine to oppress everyone else but who aren't willing to get in the Watched-By-Big-Brother line themselves.

dippin · 04-24-2009, 07:08 AM

I know, I was being sarcastic...

shakran · 04-24-2009, 07:25 AM

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Originally Posted by dippin

I know, I was being sarcastic...

I know. I was elaborating, since at least one person seems to think that she IS the victim...

Willravel · 04-24-2009, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scout

Harmon is a "blue dog democrat" and that's the only reason this story leaked. This happened years ago, before the 06 election. The far left has begun it's assault on the more moderate of the party. It's all downhill from here unless someone tightens the reigns.

Lobbying on someone's behalf in exchange for lobbying on your behalf is done every single day in Washington. It's hardly as serious as having a deep freeze full of bribery cash.

Harman tried to impede a Justice Department espionage case. That's not your run of the mill lobbying. Why would you be pissed that Democrats are able to go after one of their own when they step over the line? Wouldn't you want that?

The "assault on the more moderate of the party" is utter nonsense. Nearly every Democrat serving in the House, Senate, and yes even in the oval office is a moderate. The Democratic party is a party of moderates.

dksuddeth · 04-24-2009, 10:55 AM

wouldn't this also be obstruction of justice charges against someone in the whitehouse?

shakran · 04-24-2009, 12:00 PM

you mean Gonzales? Yeah, I can see where that would apply, though really the list of crimes he committed is so damn long I'm not sure we'd manage to get to this one if we took them in order

04-22-2009, 01:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
inBOIL I have eaten the slaw	To paraphrase Jon Stewart, does she experience cognitive dissonance? Or did she believe that wiretaps would magically only target the bad guys and leave good Americans alone? __________________ And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you. Last edited by inBOIL; 04-22-2009 at 01:04 PM..

04-22-2009, 01:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	I wish this was new, amazing... somehow shocking. My inner Holden Caulfield barely twitched. This situation made me think of his one pearls of wisdom: "I'm the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life. It's awful. If I'm on my way to the store to buy a magazine, even, and somebody asks me where I'm going, I'm liable to say I'm going to the opera. It's terrible." __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

04-22-2009, 08:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Why were there taps done? Especially if for legal reasons and with warrants? If she's not guilty of anything, then I'd be pissed off to and wonder why my lines were tapped. Now, if she was a suspect in something, I could understand. And who's administration authorized the taps Bush's or Obama's? Far more to this story than what we may ever know. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

04-23-2009, 07:27 AM	#14 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	so are we now going to prosecute her for corruption? or will she get the chance to resign and then sign million dollar book and movie deals? __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

04-23-2009, 07:43 AM	#16 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	I'd be shocked if I weren't so fucking sick of hearing about politicians getting caught in these actions. I wonder what the % of those caught as compared to those committing these crimes are? I'd bet less then 10%. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

04-22-2009, 01:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	I think you might have it backwards. From my understanding she started supporting the wiretapping after she got caught on a wiretap and was blackmailed by the administration into supporting them or being prosecuted.

04-22-2009, 08:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	That taps on Representative Harman were legal. The Justice Department had been investigating a link between Harman and AIPAC (already under investigation for espionage), and the legal wiretaps yielded results; she very clearly said that she'd intervene in the Justice Department investigation on AIPAC's behalf, she offered to break the law and interfere with an ongoing espionage investigation.

04-23-2009, 07:14 AM	#11 (permalink)
dippin Crazy, indeed Location: the ether	AIPAC had promised to lobby Nancy Pelosi to have Harman as chairwoman of the House Intelligence Committee and would raise funds for her reelection. The entire CQ story is pretty detailed. and some people still claim there is no Israel lobby in the US...

04-23-2009, 07:19 AM	#13 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	I heard her on a radio program the other day, royally pissed off because she'd never been informed that she was being wiretapped. ... Who the hell informs the suspect that they're being monitored? Clueless.

04-23-2009, 07:33 AM	#15 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I haven't a clue. I would assume, since the investigation was not successfully impeded, it will continue until there is enough to prosecute, but you know how these things go. It could go either way at this point. If this were my congresswoman, I'd be screaming for impeachment from the rooftops, telling people on the street in my neighborhood, picketing around her offices, etc.

04-23-2009, 08:27 AM	#18 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	We've got a recording of this congresswoman entering into a conspiracy by offering to impede a Justice Department espionage investigation on behalf of suspected Israeli spies in order to get a senior House position. You'd think this would be open and shut. I'm sure Salon will continue to cover the story (though they seem to be stuck on the Shep Smith torture debate, like most other news outlets, for the time being).

04-24-2009, 01:34 AM	#19 (permalink)
scout Psycho	Harmon is a "blue dog democrat" and that's the only reason this story leaked. This happened years ago, before the 06 election. The far left has begun it's assault on the more moderate of the party. It's all downhill from here unless someone tightens the reigns. Lobbying on someone's behalf in exchange for lobbying on your behalf is done every single day in Washington. It's hardly as serious as having a deep freeze full of bribery cash. __________________ "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson

04-24-2009, 07:08 AM	#24 (permalink)
dippin Crazy, indeed Location: the ether	I know, I was being sarcastic...

04-24-2009, 10:55 AM	#27 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	wouldn't this also be obstruction of justice charges against someone in the whitehouse? __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

04-24-2009, 12:00 PM	#28 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	you mean Gonzales? Yeah, I can see where that would apply, though really the list of crimes he committed is so damn long I'm not sure we'd manage to get to this one if we took them in order