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Old 09-03-2009, 02:08 PM   #121 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cimarron29414 View Post
If you are referring to Beck and Hannity, neither of them believe Obama is NOT a U.S. citizen. For you to say here that they believe that is as irresponsible as the point you are trying to make about them. If you mean your friends, then yes your friends are scary. Obama is a U.S. citizen, anyone who says otherwise placed charges in tower seven.
I will just say this, I meant that they are taking what was said in the past (I am fairly certain Sean Hannity had a special about Obama's birth certificate saying it was lies back before the election even if he never believed it) and are still sticking to that shtick even if they disagree with the birthers now. I know Sean Hannity had a special about Obama being a secret Muslim and people still cling to that. The youtube video I have was taken down for 'copyright reasons' but I can find another if you want.

Sorry dc, /threadjack.

About the Census, I don't understand how people can contort the Census into something like this. It just comes off as scary that a certain few people can inspire so much fear in select groups that they can make a Census into something evil.
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:17 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dc_dux View Post
If there is nothing more to be added to this discussion about the census, perhaps it is time for a moderator to shut it down!

Take the Beck debate somewhere else please.
From the original post:

Quote:
I had a business trip today and while driving I thought I would listen to some talk radio to see what all the fuss is about. On both beck and rush I heard them say to either not respond to the 2010 census or to only fill out the number in the household and that's it. What is the purpose of this?
The credibility of Beck and Rush are central to the discussion as framed in the OP.
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:08 PM   #123 (permalink)
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The people in this country (and this thread) who are going to balk at filling out the census are the people who have a fight to pick with every facet of government at all times. It must be exhausting
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:34 PM   #124 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by aceventura3 View Post
The credibility of Beck and Rush are central to the discussion as framed in the OP.
ace...by all means, add your perspective on Beck/Rush and the census.....it would a refreshing change to have you address an issue directly and not go off on an unrelated tangent.

---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------

For the record, in a 2001 Court decision, the Court ruled that both the short form and the long form (American Community Survey) are constitutional.
Quote:
In a recent court decision, Morales v. Evans, the court held that the questions and the long form from the 2000 census are constitutional.

In Morales, the court first reviewed both the short form and the long form questions from the 2000 Census and traced the origin of each question from prior censuses. The court noted the authority of the Bureau to collect more than headcount information, and then specifically addressed whether such collection violated the plaintiffs rights under the Fifth Amendment (due process), First Amendment (protection against compelled speech), and Fourth Amendment (unreasonable and illegal search). In each instance the court found the collection of information related to governmental purposes and there was no basis for holding such collection unconstitutional.

U.S. GAO - Legal Authority for American Community Survey, B-289852, April 4, 2002
But I suspect that makes them "activist judges" in the mind of some....

...despite the fact that in 1790, at the time of the first census, Madison (the "father of the Constitution" before he became president) spoke for many of his colleagues in promoting the census to "embrace some other objects besides the bare enumeration of the inhabitants; it would enable them to adapt the public measures to the particular circumstances of the community."
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Old 09-03-2009, 04:52 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dc_dux View Post
ace...by all means, add your perspective on Beck/Rush and the census.....it would a refreshing change to have you address an issue directly and not go off on an unrelated tangent.[COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]
I stated that in my view 99.9% of the American population will not change their behavior regarding the census because of people like Beck or Rush. After that I responded to questions and responses to my posts. It is becoming more and more clear that some people are simply creating their own little "boogy men", this issue illustrates that. Conservatives are going to participate in the census, period. It is not an issue, so what is the deal with Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and all the other "boogy men" you folks create? The same was done with the "birthers". How much more direct do you want my response to be?
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Old 09-03-2009, 04:54 PM   #126 (permalink)
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if you think we're creating boogey men, then I don't really care what else you have to say on the issue, as you're already wrong. It's a dismissive attitude towards a real problem.
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Old 09-04-2009, 07:44 AM   #127 (permalink)
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if you think we're creating boogey men, then I don't really care what else you have to say on the issue, as you're already wrong. It's a dismissive attitude towards a real problem.
What is the real problem from your point of view?

Are conservatives going to participate in the census?
Are conservatives going to hurt their cause, representation, funding by not participating in the census?
Do you think Beck and a Representative from Minnesota (Michele Bachmann) have the power to have a measurable influence on the issue?

My answers are: Yes, No, and No.

How do we differ? Or, is it that I am one of your boogy men? Booo!

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Old 09-04-2009, 07:45 AM   #128 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dc_dux View Post
ace...by all means, add your perspective on Beck/Rush and the census.....it would a refreshing change to have you address an issue directly and not go off on an unrelated tangent.

---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------

For the record, in a 2001 Court decision, the Court ruled that both the short form and the long form (American Community Survey) are constitutional.

But I suspect that makes them "activist judges" in the mind of some....

...despite the fact that in 1790, at the time of the first census, Madison (the "father of the Constitution" before he became president) spoke for many of his colleagues in promoting the census to "embrace some other objects besides the bare enumeration of the inhabitants; it would enable them to adapt the public measures to the particular circumstances of the community."
1) The issue needs to reach SCOTUS and be decided once and for all. I would abide by the decision of SCOTUS and then encourage my legislators to change the law.
2) Madison may have wanted it to expand past enumeration as an efficient way to provide demographics to local governments. It that was the purpose of the current census, I would enthusiastically fill it out.
3) The census is no longer used for the collection of data for distribution to local governments. It is used for distributing federal funds through entitlement programs. Those of us who believe those programs are outside of the duties of the federal government choose not to participate in the means necessary to perpetuate them.
4) The census is not evil. Neither is a gun. It is simply a tool which can become dangerous (to life, liberty, and property) when misused.
5) I understand that you disagee. I am restating my position concisely.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:19 AM   #129 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by aceventura3 View Post
What is the real problem from your point of view?

Are conservatives going to participate in the census?
Are conservatives going to hurt their cause, representation, funding by not participating in the census?
Do you think Beck and a Representative from Minnesota (Michele Bachmann) have the power to have a measurable influence on the issue?

My answers are: Yes, No, and No.

How do we differ? Or, is it that I am one of your boogy men? Booo!


Beck is directing people not to fill out the census, people listen to him and agree not to fill it out. By not filling out the census correctly conservatives are hurting funding based on census results and representation. These are clear and irrefutable facts.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:27 AM   #130 (permalink)
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additionally, the people who listen to Beck then tell their like-minded friends what he said, and they do the same. Why ace insists that Beck/whoever's influence is confined to the viewership #'s is beyond me
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:14 AM   #131 (permalink)
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additionally, the people who listen to Beck then tell their like-minded friends what he said, and they do the same. Why ace insists that Beck/whoever's influence is confined to the viewership #'s is beyond me
You doth protest too much. I suspect you have a bit of a crush on Beck.
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:30 PM   #132 (permalink)
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You doth protest too much. I suspect you have a bit of a crush on Beck.
These aren't just idle claims. The rhetoric and lies that beck and his kind spue are adopted and repeated by almost every single conservative. The amount of people who take every word they say as sacred is frightening.
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:52 PM   #133 (permalink)
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The problem with the 1% or 5% in Rush's case that listen (or support that position) to him go to these to town halls, write their congressmen, and fund a lot of political campaigns. This causes a few more percentage to think things aren't good an nothing should be done. Even though they would be better off if it was changed.
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Old 09-04-2009, 07:37 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cimarron29414 View Post
You doth protest too much. I suspect you have a bit of a crush on Beck.
honestly, I've never watched his show or listened to his radio show. My knowledge of him is strictly 2nd hand
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Old 09-05-2009, 07:27 AM   #135 (permalink)
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These aren't just idle claims. The rhetoric and lies that beck and his kind spue are adopted and repeated by almost every single conservative. The amount of people who take every word they say as sacred is frightening.
Have you ever watched Joe Scarborough, Morning Joe on MSNBC. I don't know if he commented on the census non-controversy but he did comment on the Obama speech to schools non-controversy (non-controversy to me is defined as an issue blown way out of porportion by 24 hr. news shows), and pretty much thinks it is stupid.

Scarborough is conservative and doesn't share Beck' views on many issues. I am a conservative and I don't share Beck's views on many issues. Should we conclude that your statement is a lie that you and your kind spew are adopted and repeated by almost every single liberal?
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Old 09-05-2009, 07:41 AM   #136 (permalink)
 
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i was going to make a long post refuting your view, ace, but then i decided that it was perhaps more fun and effective to simply post this gil scott-heron song.
if you play it, listen all the way through. the last couple minutes is a summary of what i take your viewpoint to be based on. but getting to those last two minutes is kinda fun. enjoy.

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Old 09-05-2009, 12:22 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by aceventura3 View Post
Have you ever watched Joe Scarborough, Morning Joe on MSNBC. I don't know if he commented on the census non-controversy but he did comment on the Obama speech to schools non-controversy (non-controversy to me is defined as an issue blown way out of porportion by 24 hr. news shows), and pretty much thinks it is stupid.

Scarborough is conservative and doesn't share Beck' views on many issues. I am a conservative and I don't share Beck's views on many issues. Should we conclude that your statement is a lie that you and your kind spew are adopted and repeated by almost every single liberal?

First of all I'm not a liberal, second of all, conservative arguments against healthcare and against the census are the same as beck's so do the math. I know many people who are otherwise intellegent except when they try to argue against these issues. When presented with the facts they try to deflect to some totally irrelevant point, typically the way that you do.
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Old 09-06-2009, 02:21 PM   #138 (permalink)
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First of all I'm not a liberal, second of all, conservative arguments against healthcare and against the census are the same as beck's so do the math. I know many people who are otherwise intellegent except when they try to argue against these issues. When presented with the facts they try to deflect to some totally irrelevant point, typically the way that you do.
Was your statement a lie or not?
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Old 09-06-2009, 02:28 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Was your statement a lie or not?

Not in any way.
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Old 09-06-2009, 02:52 PM   #140 (permalink)
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i was going to make a long post refuting your view, ace, but then i decided that it was perhaps more fun and effective to simply post this gil scott-heron song.
if you play it, listen all the way through. the last couple minutes is a summary of what i take your viewpoint to be based on. but getting to those last two minutes is kinda fun. enjoy.
Brings back memories. Scott came out with that when I was in college, and I was grooven right along with him - at the time. Times change. There is a difference between a guy like Beck and a guy like Reagan. I think the difference is Reagan actually believed his lines. Reagan was actually able to persuade people to act in ways different from their normal predisposition. Reagan focused on the positive. Reagan was a leader.

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahl View Post
Not in any way.
..."almost every conservative...", o.k.
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Old 09-06-2009, 02:54 PM   #141 (permalink)
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Brings back memories. Scott came out with that when I was in college, and I was grooven right along with him - at the time. Times change. There is a difference between a guy like Beck and a guy like Reagan. I think the difference is Reagan actually believed his lines. Reagan was actually able to persuade people to act in ways different from their normal predisposition. Reagan focused on the positive. Reagan was a leader.

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------



..."almost every conservative...", o.k.

Every conservative argument on this forum and in the news is exactly the same as becks. Is that a coincidence?
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Old 09-06-2009, 03:53 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Every conservative argument on this forum and in the news is exactly the same as becks. Is that a coincidence?
I am not a "birther"
I am going to fill out my census form
My son is not going to miss Obama's speech next week.
I am conservative.
I don't even regularly watch Beck's show, The few times I have seen it, I did not like it.
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Old 09-08-2009, 08:48 AM   #143 (permalink)
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honestly, I've never watched his show or listened to his radio show. My knowledge of him is strictly 2nd hand
I knew that. You didn't have to tell me.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:32 PM   #144 (permalink)
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Well, at least a bit good news from all of this... the Census just issued a statement that have severed all ties with ACORN beginning immediately!

Stay tuned!
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