Oops! Anti-ACORN legislation has deliciously wide scope - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Willravel · 09-22-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Whoops: Anti-ACORN Bill Ropes In Defense Contractors, Others Charged With Fraud

Going after ACORN may be like shooting fish in a barrel lately -- but jumpy lawmakers used a bazooka to do it last week and may have blown up some of their longtime allies in the process.

The congressional legislation intended to defund ACORN, passed with broad bipartisan support, is written so broadly that it applies to "any organization" that has been charged with breaking federal or state election laws, lobbying disclosure laws, campaign finance laws or filing fraudulent paperwork with any federal or state agency. It also applies to any of the employees, contractors or other folks affiliated with a group charged with any of those things.
In other words, the bill could plausibly defund the entire military-industrial complex. Whoops.

Whoops: Anti-ACORN Bill Ropes In Defense Contractors, Others Charged With Fraud

It seems the witch hunt by the loony right against the phantom ACORN has accidentally provided a mechanism by which to legally dismantle all of the bullshit defense contractors. Can you imagine the paranoia of the right leading to the downfall of cronyism?

A man can dream.

The_Dunedan · 09-22-2009, 11:30 AM

Suits me. Scum are scum, they -all- need to go.

Cimarron29414 · 09-22-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

Whoops: Anti-ACORN Bill Ropes In Defense Contractors, Others Charged With Fraud

It seems the witch hunt by the loony right against the phantom ACORN has accidentally provided a mechanism by which to legally dismantle all of the bullshit defense contractors. Can you imagine the paranoia of the right leading to the downfall of cronyism?

A man can dream.

Imagine for a minute that your daughter was one of the sex slaves ACORN was going to help steal across the border...still want your tax dollars going to them?

"But there WEREN'T any sex slaves?!?!?!" - They didn't know that.

Derwood · 09-22-2009, 11:51 AM

There were no sex slaves

dippin · 09-22-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cimarron29414

Imagine for a minute that your daughter was one of the sex slaves ACORN was going to help steal across the border...still want your tax dollars going to them?

"But there WEREN'T any sex slaves?!?!?!" - They didn't know that.

I think what those people in acorn did is indefensible, but at no point are they shown giving tips on how to handle underage prostitutes. The video shows the two undercover reporters asking it, but edited out the response.

In any case, I don't see how that is relevant to this thread, which points out that the anti-acorn legislation impacts a lot more than acorn.

Derwood · 09-22-2009, 11:54 AM

one of the ACORN workers immediately called the police after the "reporters" left. any chance that he as just playing along until they left as to, you know, not upset a criminal sitting across the desk from him?

Willravel · 09-22-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cimarron29414

Imagine for a minute that your daughter was one of the sex slaves ACORN was going to help steal across the border...still want your tax dollars going to them?

"But there WEREN'T any sex slaves?!?!?!" - They didn't know that.

I'd rather imagine people not threadjack my discussions.

guy44 · 09-22-2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cimarron29414

Imagine for a minute that your daughter was one of the sex slaves ACORN was going to help steal across the border...still want your tax dollars going to them?

YouTube - Children

Rekna · 09-22-2009, 12:19 PM

Why hasn't O'Keefy released all of the unedited footage? The man in the latest tape called the police and has claimed the footage was edited to look bad. In particular The pimp and the prostitute convinced the guy that they were trying to smuggle girls across the boarder to get away from a dangerous pimp. Of course the edit video doesn't show any of that.

Release all of the original footage including the footage from offices that didn't cooperate with him. Why won't he release this footage?

FuglyStick · 09-22-2009, 12:26 PM

"Keep yer pansy white hands off my Haliburton, you bleeding heart scum!"

Willravel · 09-22-2009, 12:58 PM

SERIOUSLY, this thread is about the legislation's effect on broader misconduct, not about the bullshit case against ACORN.

guy44 · 09-22-2009, 01:11 PM

Sorry, Will. Apparently there's a good case to be made that the legislation in question is a Bill of Attainder (i.e. specifically aimed at just one company, even though it is poorly written), which is unconstitutional. So oddly enough, a bill unconstitutionally designed to take down only one single organization may be defeated by lawsuits brought by other organizations affected by the law.

FuglyStick · 09-22-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guy44

Sorry, Will. Apparently there's a good case to be made that the legislation in question is a Bill of Attainder (i.e. specifically aimed at just one company, even though it is poorly written), which is unconstitutional. So oddly enough, a bill unconstitutionally designed to take down only one single organization may be defeated by lawsuits brought by other organizations affected by the law.

And therein lies the irony, that the bill targeting ACORN may in fact have to be dismantled by the bill's very proponents in order to protect the interests that the proponents hold dear.

Mmm mmm, I like my irony slathered in ketchup. TAAAASTY.

The_Dunedan · 09-22-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

In particular The pimp and the prostitute convinced the guy that they were trying to smuggle girls across the boarder to get away from a dangerous pimp. Of course the edit video doesn't show any of that.

Because it's complete, unmitigated horse-shit.

Look, a "pimp" and a "hooker" do not bring underage Latino girls into the US to get them away from other pimps. They bring them in so that they can sell their live bodies to pederasts and bored truck-drivers, then leave their dead bodies in a ditch someplace.EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS. When a "pimp" and a "hooker" start talking about bringing underage Latinas into the US illegally, they are talking about sex slavery. Period.

Rekna · 09-22-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Dunedan

Because it's complete, unmitigated horse-shit.

Look, a "pimp" and a "hooker" do not bring underage Latino girls into the US to get them away from other pimps. They bring them in so that they can sell their live bodies to pederasts and bored truck-drivers, then leave their dead bodies in a ditch someplace.EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS. When a "pimp" and a "hooker" start talking about bringing underage Latinas into the US illegally, they are talking about sex slavery. Period.

If that is the case then release the full unedited video and let it speak for itself.

Spiritsoar · 09-22-2009, 02:32 PM

*points to the already existing thread about all the ACORN video nonsense*

Derwood · 09-22-2009, 03:10 PM

points to the first post in this thread and how it's not about the video nonsense

inBOIL · 09-22-2009, 03:34 PM

Exactly how broad is this? does it mean that once you've been accused, you can never receive gov't funding, or only after being cleared? And does it apply to things like unemployment, social security, and welfare? Imagine thousands of employees or ex-employees of these groups being unable to collect their government aid. While I'm all for severely reduced government spending served with a delicious side of incompetence-slathered irony, I think there might be some unfortunate side-side effects here.

filtherton · 09-22-2009, 04:07 PM

Reminds of the Texas DOMA law that passed a few years ago. If interpreted literally, it would outlaw all marriages.

Spiritsoar · 09-22-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derwood

points to the first post in this thread and how it's not about the video nonsense

My apologies for not being clear. I was pointing for the benefit of all the people going on about the video nonsense in this thread, because the original topic interests me, and I'd like to hear more about it. In particular, government contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan who get paid much more than we did as soldiers for doing almost nothing annoy the crap out of me.

Derwood · 09-22-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritsoar

My apologies for not being clear. I was pointing for the benefit of all the people going on about the video nonsense in this thread, because the original topic interests me, and I'd like to hear more about it. In particular, government contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan who get paid much more than we did as soldiers for doing almost nothing annoy the crap out of me.

my mistake

Cimarron29414 · 09-23-2009, 05:22 AM

Anyone, ANYONE, charged with fraud against a government contract should not be given any more federal funds until the charge is resolved. It's really simple, but you guys are so frickin partisan that you instead defend ACORN and laugh with glee over the defense contractors. You can't see it for what it really is. Will, you have called the ACORN thing a "witch hunt" and a "bullshit case" - both of which are asinine assessments which speak to your inability to be objective about government-funded corruption, wherever it lies.

dc_dux · 09-23-2009, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cimarron29414

Anyone, ANYONE, charged with fraud against a government contract should not be given any more federal funds until the charge is resolved. It's really simple, but you guys are so frickin partisan that you instead defend ACORN and laugh with glee over the defense contractors. You can't see it for what it really is. Will, you have called the ACORN thing a "witch hunt" and a "bullshit case" - both of which are asinine assessments which speak to your inability to be objective about government-funded corruption, wherever it lies.

You do understand that ACORN's federal grants have nothing to do with its voter registration activities.

While there have been partisan allegations (charges) of how ACORN co-mingles its 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) funds and activities, there has never been any such formal charges of misusing grant funds anywhere or by any funding agency.

It sets a dangerous precedent to "punish" non-profits by taking away any federal funding based on allegations.

What organization may be next...targeted by the right or the left?

Derwood · 09-23-2009, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cimarron29414

Anyone, ANYONE, charged with fraud against a government contract should not be given any more federal funds until the charge is resolved. It's really simple, but you guys are so frickin partisan that you instead defend ACORN and laugh with glee over the defense contractors. You can't see it for what it really is. Will, you have called the ACORN thing a "witch hunt" and a "bullshit case" - both of which are asinine assessments which speak to your inability to be objective about government-funded corruption, wherever it lies.

Sorry, forgot that you were the bastion of non-partisan thinking. Our mistake

Cimarron29414 · 09-23-2009, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

You do understand that ACORN's federal grants have nothing to do with its voter registration activities.

While there have been partisan allegations (charges) of how ACORN co-mingles its 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) funds and activities, there has never been any such formal charges of misusing grant funds anywhere or by any funding agency.

It sets a dangerous precedent to "punish" non-profits by taking away any federal funding based on allegations.

What organization may be next...targeted by the right or the left?

Yes, I understand that. However, giving tax advice on how to make your sex slaves your dependents in order to be given federal money for a brothel doesn't have anything to do with voter registration.

Not punishing, just protecting further funds from misuse until the incident is cleared up.

Targeted? ...as if ACORN were some innocent lamb in a field and the wolves swooped down?

---------- Post added at 10:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derwood

Sorry, forgot that you were the bastion of non-partisan thinking. Our mistake

You are forgiven.

dc_dux · 09-23-2009, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cimarron29414

Yes, I understand that. However, giving tax advice on how to make your sex slaves your dependents in order to be given federal money for a brothel doesn't have anything to do with voter registration.

Not punishing, just protecting further funds from misuse until the incident is cleared up.

Targeted? ...as if ACORN were some innocent lamb in a field and the wolves swooped down?

Targeted....absolutely. (ask for the former US attorney, David Iglesias)

And not charged with any crime. Bad (despicable) behavior by a handful of employees and/or even incompetent management and oversight is not justification to remove federal grants...unless there are formal charges/complaints by the funding agency that the grants were misued.

Congressional interference in the grant process based on a video or other allegations sets a dangerous precedent that could have far-reaching affects on any non-profit that receives federal grants.

Cimarron29414 · 09-23-2009, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

Targeted....absolutely. (ask for the former US attorney, David Iglesias)

And not charged with any crime. Bad (despicable) behavior by a handful of employees and/or even incompetent management and oversight is not justification to remove federal grants...unless there are formal charges/complaints by the funding agency that the grants were misued.

Congressional interference in the grant process based on a video or other allegations sets a dangerous precedent that could have far-reaching affects on any non-profit that receives federal grants.

Yes, it is justification...and this is a perfect example of why there shouldn't be federal grants in the first place! Oops, there's my Libertarian sickness showing up again.

dc_dux · 09-23-2009, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cimarron29414

Yes, it is justification....

No.....at best, it might be justification for a Congressional hearing, with ACORN and the funding agencies brought in to testify.

Oh, and bring the partisan video guy in as well and subpoena the full unedited videos.

09-22-2009, 12:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
FuglyStick WHEEEE! Whee! Whee! WHEEEE! Location: Southern Illinois	"Keep yer pansy white hands off my Haliburton, you bleeding heart scum!" __________________ AZIZ! LIGHT!

09-22-2009, 01:11 PM	#12 (permalink)
guy44 Somnabulist Location: corner of No and Where	Sorry, Will. Apparently there's a good case to be made that the legislation in question is a Bill of Attainder (i.e. specifically aimed at just one company, even though it is poorly written), which is unconstitutional. So oddly enough, a bill unconstitutionally designed to take down only one single organization may be defeated by lawsuits brought by other organizations affected by the law. __________________ "You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"

09-22-2009, 02:32 PM	#16 (permalink)
Spiritsoar Tilted Location: Tacoma, WA	points to the already existing thread about all the ACORN video nonsense __________________ Veritas Vos Liberabit

09-22-2009, 03:34 PM	#18 (permalink)
inBOIL I have eaten the slaw	Exactly how broad is this? does it mean that once you've been accused, you can never receive gov't funding, or only after being cleared? And does it apply to things like unemployment, social security, and welfare? Imagine thousands of employees or ex-employees of these groups being unable to collect their government aid. While I'm all for severely reduced government spending served with a delicious side of incompetence-slathered irony, I think there might be some unfortunate side-side effects here. __________________ And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

09-23-2009, 05:22 AM	#22 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	Anyone, ANYONE, charged with fraud against a government contract should not be given any more federal funds until the charge is resolved. It's really simple, but you guys are so frickin partisan that you instead defend ACORN and laugh with glee over the defense contractors. You can't see it for what it really is. Will, you have called the ACORN thing a "witch hunt" and a "bullshit case" - both of which are asinine assessments which speak to your inability to be objective about government-funded corruption, wherever it lies. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

09-22-2009, 11:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Suits me. Scum are scum, they -all- need to go.

09-22-2009, 11:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	There were no sex slaves

09-22-2009, 11:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	one of the ACORN workers immediately called the police after the "reporters" left. any chance that he as just playing along until they left as to, you know, not upset a criminal sitting across the desk from him?

09-22-2009, 12:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	Why hasn't O'Keefy released all of the unedited footage? The man in the latest tape called the police and has claimed the footage was edited to look bad. In particular The pimp and the prostitute convinced the guy that they were trying to smuggle girls across the boarder to get away from a dangerous pimp. Of course the edit video doesn't show any of that. Release all of the original footage including the footage from offices that didn't cooperate with him. Why won't he release this footage?

09-22-2009, 12:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	SERIOUSLY, this thread is about the legislation's effect on broader misconduct, not about the bullshit case against ACORN.

09-22-2009, 03:10 PM	#17 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	points to the first post in this thread and how it's not about the video nonsense

09-22-2009, 04:07 PM	#19 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Reminds of the Texas DOMA law that passed a few years ago. If interpreted literally, it would outlaw all marriages.