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Old 09-23-2009, 05:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Census worker murdered, "FED" carved into chest

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A U.S. Census worker found hanged from a tree near a Kentucky cemetery had the word "fed" scrawled on his chest, a law enforcement official said Wednesday, and the FBI is investigating whether he was a victim of anti-government sentiment.
The Associated Press: AP source: Census worker hanged with 'fed' on body


A few months back, Michelle Bachmann was a guest on Glenn Beck rallying against the census for no particular reason other than simply wanting to be anti-goverment or some vague anti-immigration thing. This kind of irresponsible and nonsensical garbage is commonplace, but it's been suggested that these kinds of things could incite radical militants into action. It seems fairly obvious that the murder of the census worker was motivated by anti-government sentiment (I'm not investigating, but based on the available evidence that seems the most likely conclusion to be drawn).

If it can be established that Michelle Bachmann and Glenn Beck inspired this attack, is there any legal mechanism to prevent them from inciting further violence/murders? What's your take on this? Am I just seeing a connection that's not there?

Last edited by Willravel; 09-25-2009 at 05:15 PM.. Reason: centered video
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Wow. Can this be real?

You know, I've read for a while now about how dangerous this crazy rightwing anti-government bullshit on Fox and whatnot was, that there are crazies out there who will take this stuff too far. But man, I'm not sure I ever believed it...
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Wow. Is this the next step? The low simmer appears to be heading towards a boil.

Yes, we can all say it's just one crazy person out there but this *is* an escalation.
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I can only hope this is an isolated event.

Nonetheless, the attention this may garner could be harmful in more ways than one.
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It's a whackjob inspired by an asinine policy in a misguided attempt to inspire anti-government sentiment to stop the spread of government growth.

That being said, to paint Glen Beck et al with the punishment for incitement of the murder you open the door to holding the anti-war propoganda (including Harry Reid for proclaiming our Iraq soldiers as rapists) for Abdul Hakim Muhammad.
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I likewise hope that this is an isolated, and irrepeatable, anomaly.

However, things like this are motivated by fear. It would behoove all concerned to meditate upon the source and motive of that fear: and no, it isn't Faux News.

To quote John Ross: "Stripping a motivated people of their dignity (ed; or whatever remains of it) and rubbing their faces in it is never a good idea."
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Beck/Bachman can easily dismiss this as an isolated lunatic and wash their hands of it.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Isolated incident? Perhaps the incident itself, but you know that there are thousands of hard line conservatives out there nodding their heads in agreement.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Seaver View Post
That being said, to paint Glen Beck et al with the punishment for incitement of the murder you open the door to holding the anti-war propoganda (including Harry Reid for proclaiming our Iraq soldiers as rapists) for Abdul Hakim Muhammad.
I don't mean to suggest they're directly responsible, that argument can't be supported with available information, but doesn't it seem within reason that reports such as theirs may have served to inspire this incarnation of anti-government attack?

Anyway, the idea that a strict Constitutionalist conservative would be against the census is asinine. Article 1, Section 2: "The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct."
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The_Dunedan View Post
I likewise hope that this is an isolated, and irrepeatable, anomaly.

However, things like this are motivated by fear. It would behoove all concerned to meditate upon the source and motive of that fear: and no, it isn't Faux News.

To quote John Ross: "Stripping a motivated people of their dignity (ed; or whatever remains of it) and rubbing their faces in it is never a good idea."
And is this a threat, Dunedan? Are you threatening to take up arms against a democratically elected government?
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:11 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'd imagine the source of the fear is a lack of education and too much TeeVee.

The same environment that allows many ancient 'isms to continue existing.

...

I get it. Attack someone who won't fight back. Gotcha. America - fuck yeah.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'd imagine the source of the fear is a lack of education and too much TeeVee.

The same environment that allows many ancient 'isms to continue existing.
Just the names for Obama alone...
COMMUNISM FASCISM NAZISM CONSTUCTIONISM KENTOISM KENYANISM FEUDALISM etc.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:23 PM   #14 (permalink)
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And is this a threat, Dunedan?
No, this is a friendly warning, and I mean that in all seriousness. No reasonable person -wants- a civil war, in this or any nation or time. But certain actors are pushing perilously close to a cultural "tipping point" which risks igniting such a conflict whether I want it to or not.

Quote:
Are you threatening to take up arms against a democratically elected government?
How stupid do you take me for? Do you think that if I was planning such a thing I'd put it on the internet?! No, of course not. Being prepared for such an eventuality is something different. Just because I carry a fire-extinguisher in my car, do you think I -want- the thing to catch fire? Just because I put up "No Trespassing" signs, do you think I -want- to shoot poachers?

Secondarily, what is it about "democratically elected" that makes anything, let alone a gang of extortionist thugs, legitimate and worthy of authority? Democracy, the rule of the many and powerful over the few and powerless, took Socrates and gave us Robespierre in return. Thank you, no.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:29 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The_Dunedan View Post
No, this is a friendly warning, and I mean that in all seriousness. No reasonable person -wants- a civil war, in this or any nation or time. But certain actors are pushing perilously close to a cultural "tipping point" which risks igniting such a conflict whether I want it to or not.



How stupid do you take me for? Do you think that if I was planning such a thing I'd put it on the internet?! No, of course not. Being prepared for such an eventuality is something different. Just because I carry a fire-extinguisher in my car, do you think I -want- the thing to catch fire? Just because I put up "No Trespassing" signs, do you think I -want- to shoot poachers?

Secondarily, what is it about "democratically elected" that makes anything, let alone a gang of extortionist thugs, legitimate and worthy of authority? Democracy, the rule of the many and powerful over the few and powerless, took Socrates and gave us Robespierre in return. Thank you, no.
Except that no tipping point is being reached in anything. Taxes are still lower than they were for most of history, gun ownership is up, attendance to religious services is at its highest point in American history, government spending is nowhere near historical highs...
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Except that no tipping point is being reached in anything. Taxes are still lower than they were for most of history, gun ownership is up, attendance to religious services is at its highest point in American history, government spending is nowhere near historical highs...
Shush, one of them "colored" guys is in office and them damned democrats is stealing our non-existent healthcare.

...

Guy that killed the census worker... do you think he cares about factual statistics? Something tells me he doesn't read US News and World Report.

...

People are disillusioned with the flopped economy and are taking it out on the establishment.

The two aren't related but that doesn't matter to Joe the Plumber. He's got murder on his mind.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dunedan View Post
No, this is a friendly warning, and I mean that in all seriousness. No reasonable person -wants- a civil war, in this or any nation or time. But certain actors are pushing perilously close to a cultural "tipping point" which risks igniting such a conflict whether I want it to or not.



How stupid do you take me for? Do you think that if I was planning such a thing I'd put it on the internet?! No, of course not. Being prepared for such an eventuality is something different. Just because I carry a fire-extinguisher in my car, do you think I -want- the thing to catch fire? Just because I put up "No Trespassing" signs, do you think I -want- to shoot poachers?

Secondarily, what is it about "democratically elected" that makes anything, let alone a gang of extortionist thugs, legitimate and worthy of authority? Democracy, the rule of the many and powerful over the few and powerless, took Socrates and gave us Robespierre in return. Thank you, no.
Fine, then here is a warning for you as well--most people are not going to be frightened off by the war drums of malcontents and extremists, and would happily take up arms in the defense of democracy. Just so we are clear, hmm?
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Do you think that if I was planning such a thing I'd put it on the internet?!
Well now I'm a bit worried.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:54 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Two words ... bull shit. There are serious crystal meth, pot and stills happening in places like Clay County. The average gang-banger would shit in their pants out there. People like this guy usually just disappear if they appear out of place or perceived as a threat. This was most likely a warning to any outsiders.

This strategy by liberal politicians to stir up unsubstantiated racial fear against conservatives is itself the most cowardly and devious form of racism. It is shameful and irresponsible. Many here all too eager to jump on the bandwagon. Manufactured bigotry serves as a powerful propaganda tool. Perhaps we should round them all up and ship them away in boxcars to work camps... just in case they might act up. Try googling anti-Bush images and past violent liberal protests.

Perspective folks... you're treading dangerous ground if you are bent on claiming racism and spreading fear irresponsibly.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:55 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Oh for Pete's sake, I'm the crazy anarcho-libertarian in this discussion, I'm the guy way out in right field someplace, but even I'm not loopy enough to post threats against the government on the internet. Besides being dumb as a brick tactically and strategically, it's a good way to get arrested, which I'd prefer to avoid. Besides which, both my political and strategic/warfighting philosophies preclude initiation of conflict, so you're safe from me and my confederates, at least. I've no interest in starting (or being involved with starting) what could potentially turn in a military and humanitarian disaster unlike anything in recent history. Casualties, in a truly insurgent scenario, would be absolutely horrid, on all or both sides, Iraq cubed or worse for all involved. Anybody with any brains sees this, and wants to avoid it if at all possible.
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:00 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The_Dunedan View Post
Oh for Pete's sake, I'm the crazy anarcho-libertarian in this discussion, I'm the guy way out in right field someplace, but even I'm not loopy enough to post threats against the government on the internet. Besides being dumb as a brick tactically and strategically, it's a good way to get arrested, which I'd prefer to avoid. Besides which, both my political and strategic/warfighting philosophies preclude initiation of conflict, so you're safe from me and my confederates, at least. I've no interest in starting (or being involved with starting) what could potentially turn in a military and humanitarian disaster unlike anything in recent history. Casualties, in a truly insurgent scenario, would be absolutely horrid, on all or both sides, Iraq cubed or worse for all involved. Anybody with any brains sees this, and wants to avoid it if at all possible.
I didn't hear a word of that, what with all your saber rattling.

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by ottopilot View Post
Two words ... bull shit. There are serious crystal meth, pot and stills happening in places like Clay County. The average gang-banger would shit in their pants out there. People like this guy usually just disappear if they appear out of place or perceived as a threat. This was most likely a warning to any outsiders.

This strategy by liberal politicians to stir up unsubstantiated racial fear against conservatives is itself the most cowardly and devious form of racism. It is shameful and irresponsible. Many here all too eager to jump on the bandwagon. Manufactured bigotry serves as a powerful propaganda tool. Perhaps we should round them all up and ship them away in boxcars to work camps... just in case they might act up. Try googling anti-Bush images and past violent liberal protests.

Perspective folks... you're treading dangerous ground if you are bent on claiming racism and spreading fear irresponsibly.
Oh, and dude, the census taker was WHITE; I don't believe anyone said it was racially motivated.
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Two words ... bull shit.
Aaah, thank god.

I put $50 on a meth lab, myself. They're popping up left and right... even in suburban neighborhoods. Had one out here (of all places) recently. No fun when you see some cops in hazmat suits at 3 AM. Definitely no fun when you see said suits escorting unshielded children from the building. Inhuman.

...

There is no revolution. Just illegal enterprise to be protected.
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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If I made myself unclear, I apologise. I'll try to do better in future.

Edited to add:

Quote:
I put $50 on a meth lab, myself. They're popping up left and right... even in suburban neighborhoods.
Certainly possible, I must concede as well. Meth-heads get violent, and meth-heads get -stupid-. If you're right, this could get interesting in a whole different way.

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Old 09-23-2009, 08:12 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Holy crap. "hanged from a tree" is what we call 'lynching' here in the south. Anyone know the ethnicity of the deceased?

I for one think that yes, Fox news & co are partly responsible here, by whipping people into a frenzy. What I'm not sure of is what, if anything could or should be done about it. AFAIK, they aren't specifically inciting people to do things like this, but they are (very carefully) coming as close as possible without actually doing it. Fox gets freedom of speech, so I don't see any legal recourse so long as they don't cross the line into actually advocating this stuff. But when you tell people that 'the feds' are 'coming to get them'...some people are going to fall for it, and they have to know that.

Along these lines, I just want to point out that something like 95% of these 'anti-government' protesters were completely silent while Bush was in office, and the government was acting pretty much exactly as it is now. This is about a Democrat in office, and the anti-democrat machine whipping up a frenzy. Race probably helps for some of this as well, but I wouldn't say it's a 'deciding factor' for the majority of the tea-partiers.
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:13 PM   #26 (permalink)
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The_Duendin was wrong to post what he did, because it does come off as extremist. However, the funny thing is that the people before him were posting things just as risky and insulting.

Until shown otherwise, this was an isolated incident by one or more truly disturbed individuals who will with any luck be caught and severely punished. To make an immediate beeline to shouting down Glenn Beck and Michele Bachmann and people you disagree with without any evidence is, as was said, like someone drawing a line from terrorist activities to anti-war and liberal anti-government activities.

I don't recall many people liking it when those lines were drawn in the past.

And, just as an aside, how long until the first Hannibal Lector jokes start coming out?
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
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This whole thread is underpinned by the assumption that the killer WAS indeed motivated by anti-government sentiments.

Quote:
the FBI is investigating whether he was a victim of anti-government sentiment.
Don't jump to conclusions too quickly. What if it was some lovers quarrel and the killer is trying to throw off the police?

Just a thought. I could be completely wrong.
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:15 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Aaah, thank god.

I put $50 on a meth lab, myself. They're popping up left and right... even in suburban neighborhoods. Had one out here (of all places) recently. No fun when you see some cops in hazmat suits at 3 AM. Definitely no fun when you see said suits escorting unshielded children from the building. Inhuman.

...

There is no revolution. Just illegal enterprise to be protected.
Hopefully. As crass as that word really sounds in this context, even to me.
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:02 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I didn't hear a word of that, what with all your saber rattling.

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 PM ----------


Oh, and dude, the census taker was WHITE; I don't believe anyone said it was racially motivated.
Well dude... You are implicating white coservatives as being behind this hanging, correct? The implication you make is based on race and idiology, correct? Race-based bigotry is racism. If it makes you feel better to replace my use of the term "racism" with "bigotry", then feel free to do so. It doesn't change the premis or intent in promoting unsubstantiated fear against a group where the majority of individuals happen to be white. I see no difference.

BTW - The killing of the 3 white northern liberal activists by the KKK in the sixties was racially motivated... even if it was white guys killing white guys... dude.
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:05 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Well dude... You are implicating white coservatives as being behind this hanging, correct? The implication you make is based on race and idiology, correct? Race-based bigotry is racism. If it makes you feel better to replace my use of the term "racism" with "bigotry", then feel free to do so. It doesn't change the premis or intent in promoting unsubstantiated fear against a group where the majority of individuals happen to be white. I see no difference.

BTW - The killing of the 3 white northern liberal activists by the KKK in the sixties was racially motivated... even if it was white guys killing white guys... dude.
Er, as I said, no one as far as I know implied it was racially motivated; certainly not me. Dude.
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:40 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Again, just so we're clear, "FED" was carved into his flesh. FED. Not "Go away, we want to enjoy our methamphetamines", not "we're quite dangerous" and not "Crypts". It was "FED".

But I guess this is the liberals' fault.
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:44 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Again, just so we're clear, "FED" was carved into his flesh. FED. Not "Go away, we want to enjoy our methamphetamines", not "we're quite dangerous" and not "Crypts". It was "FED".

But I guess this is the liberals' fault.
Last time I checked, not only are census takers "FEDs", but DEA and ATF agents are too. And I doubt someone who is going to lynch a federal employee and take the time to mark the body as such is worried about the difference.
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:57 PM   #33 (permalink)
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This guy is a 51 year old substitute teacher, not an federal agent with a weapon and covered in ballistic gear. Let's be reasonable here.

---------- Post added at 10:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------

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BTW - The killing of the 3 white northern liberal activists by the KKK in the sixties was racially motivated... even if it was white guys killing white guys... dude.
No, those would technically be political killings. Racial violence is done by a member or members of one race to a member or members of another race.
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:06 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Huh, maybe they're just really irked with Ben Bernanke.
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Old 09-24-2009, 05:10 AM   #35 (permalink)
 
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right.
this has nothing to do with the style of populist agitation that our buddies in the neo-fascist right have been working.

so FED could refer to the fact that he was taken to a barbeque just before he was lynched.

don't jump to conclusions.
jesus christ.
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Old 09-24-2009, 05:58 AM   #36 (permalink)
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...or they really have it out for Britney's back-up dancer turned baby-daddy.
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Old 09-24-2009, 06:10 AM   #37 (permalink)
 
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so many ways to interpret the word FED.
really, why link it to the large-scale, well-funded agitation of the far right?
why do that?
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Old 09-24-2009, 06:11 AM   #38 (permalink)
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People are disillusioned with the flopped economy and are taking it out on the establishment.
Verbally, of course.
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Old 09-24-2009, 06:22 AM   #39 (permalink)
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This guy is a 51 year old substitute teacher, not an federal agent with a weapon and covered in ballistic gear. Let's be reasonable here.

---------- Post added at 10:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------


No, those would technically be political killings. Racial violence is done by a member or members of one race to a member or members of another race.
Sorry Will... I disagree... it wasn't politics that got those kids killed... they were nothing more than black sympathisers. In fact, most Klan members were democrats at the time. All they cared about was preserving the social order. Racial motivated, not political.

The poor guy that was hung may not have hurt a fly and was a saint in every way. He was probably just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Believe me when I say that people sometimes disappear in these areas, and law enforcement has a healthy respect for caution and self preservation. These communities are well organized and don't like outsiders.

I think the article tries to stir up unfounded controversy and promote fear regarding the tea-party types or right-wingers in general. A disturbing political propaganda trend.
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Old 09-24-2009, 06:56 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ottopilot View Post
I think the article tries to stir up unfounded controversy and promote fear regarding the tea-party types or right-wingers in general. A disturbing political propaganda trend.
Yes, the LEFT are the chief practitioners of unfounded accusations, fear-mongering, and populist witch hunts. Certainly not the right.
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