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Old 08-03-2003, 07:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Location: MN
Burying our heads...

Why is it that since 9/11 Americans have begun to make like Ostriches and begun to bury our heads in the sand? Since that horrible day this country has been duped in to believing anything and everything our government tells them. No one questions the economy or other social issues that are important, but we can certainly have a war to enrich Dubya's friends in the weapons and oil industries. Democrats have even grown soft; they won't even try to stand up for what is right, for fear of being laughed out of congress...what a sad state. In a recent article in Esquire magazine General Barry McCaffrey (ret.) was interviewed about possibly running for president on the Dem ticket. Most people would think a former General would run as a Republican, but in the article he said he had an experience on 9/11 that changed his outlook. He stated that on 9/11 a friend of his in the Rep. Party called him and told him he better join the Reps. b/c anybody who ran against them would be a fool and they would pretty much be able to do anything they wanted. What kind of crap is that? Thinking of politics after the worst terrorist attack in US history? Shouldn't these people have been mourning the deaths of thousands rather than plotting political strategy? Shouldn't we tell our government we want to see responsibility and hear the truth? Or will we simply stand by when we start to question things and Tom Ridge simply raises the alert level to instill fear in us once again?
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Old 08-03-2003, 08:09 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Location: Chicago
<b>"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. It's easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." </b>

4 super unhealthy double-stuffed oreo cookies for anyone who can tell me who said this and when and where.
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Old 08-03-2003, 08:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Location: St. Paul, MN
easy...it's Herman Goering. i don't know how fair the comparison is...and you run the risk of polluting your arguement with overt emotionalism by evoking the Nazis.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm
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Old 08-03-2003, 09:15 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Location: Chicago
I understand your point, chavos. But that's exactly what I mean to do. I am fully aware of the number of people who will think I'm an ass for making the comparison, but I believe it needs to be made.

Most Americans believe that we would never, ever, be duped like the people in Germany were. This hubris(?) of being too smart to be manipulated will only make it that much easier because we won't believe we're doing it.

While many won't like the fact that there is an implied comparison to nazism in my post, in my opinion it is similar to listening to serial killers in prison describe how they found their victims. We listen to them because we hope to use what they tell us to protect ourselves. Yet, somehow, because the speaker of the quote is a nazi, we are too quick to dismiss it, saying, "but we're nothing like the nazis." But Hitler was elected in a democratic election, remember? The people of Germany willingly gave up their liberty under the guise of protection from foreign enemies.

The price of freedom is constant vigilance, but many Americans are asleep on the job.
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Old 08-03-2003, 11:02 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Well Germany was duped by Hitler using a terrorist attack on his country to consolidate his power. He created security agencies and created a new form of warfare which had the effect of "shock and awe" on its targets, according to a book written in the 90's.
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Old 08-03-2003, 12:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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fear, they're using fear for political purposes and it's working very well.
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Old 08-03-2003, 01:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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USA of 2003 is not germany of 1939...there are some surface comparisons, but i can't stress enough how much the climate was different. The versailles treaty, the failures of the wiemar government, the great depression, hyper inflation...these are all things that are very differnt. And whatever goering said, it's not true. Vietnam is case in point...no matter how hard the establishment yelled about patriotism and the communist menace, it failed to keep the people in line, and public support for the war was lost.

As i said...good point, but you make it with very loaded terms.
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Old 08-03-2003, 02:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I think that your comparison is seriously flawed. As for fear, huh? The last time that I checked, "fear" is used as a political motivator a lot more often than in war-time. Unless, of course, Republicans really do want to throw our senior citizens out on the street, starve our children, enslave our minorities, and chain our women to the dish-washer.

Politics is politics. Instead of berating one side or the other for "playing dirty", when they all do, let's talk about ways to clean it up.
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Old 08-03-2003, 06:17 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA, Earth
Quote:
Originally posted by seretogis
The last time that I checked, "fear" is used as a political motivator a lot more often than in war-time. Unless, of course, Republicans really do want to throw our senior citizens out on the street, starve our children, enslave our minorities, and chain our women to the dish-washer.
Well, near as I can tell, that's precisely what they want to do. Note, this isn't applicable to ALL Republicans, but it's certainly no coincidence that the ones who pretend to be running our country right now appear to be quite happy to do nothing about the spiraling price of prescription meds whilst at the same time raiding the Social Security fund. As far as minorities go, I'd point you to footage of the 2000 Republican Convention - the only African-Americans I saw were the ones serving drinks. And how about that Trent Lott, huh? What a class act he is. Strom Thurmond, too. I'd say "may he rest in peace", but I'd be lying. At least that's one rampaging racist who'll never darken our national doorway again. Oh, and let's not forget William Rehnquist, the guy who spent his early years in the Southwest trying to keep blacks from voting. Great guy. Really. And, lest I forget, those classy fellows who, around Election day of 2002, started passing out flyers in black neighborhoods trying to convince the residents there that they had to pay their parking tickets before voting. You can see that one right here, at talkingpointsmemo.com. When it comes to chaining women to the dishwasher, well, I wish they'd start with Ann Coulter. But it's no secret whatsoever that Republicans want to return America to their idealized world of the 1950s, where women were pretty much tied to the home.

I'm still waiting for our ruling Repubs to prove to me that such a rollback of American society *isn't* what they want to bring about.
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Old 08-06-2003, 02:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Amen, why should we trust a party who voted against the Civil Rights Act and a president who is trying to appoint a federal judge who opposes access to public buildings for for people with disabilities...
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