Vacation in Havava! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Liquor Dealer · 10-23-2003, 09:26 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,101032,00.html

WASHINGTON — Defying a threatened presidential veto, the Senate joined the House Thursday in moving to end four-decade-old restrictions on travel to Cuba.

"It is not constructive at all to try to slap around Fidel Castro by imposing limits on the American people's right to travel," said Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D.

The Senate voted 59-36 to bar the use of government money to enforce current travel restrictions. Last month a nearly identical measure passed the House, setting up a showdown with the administration, which says President Bush will veto a $90 billion Transportation and Treasury Department bill if contains the Cuba language.

"The administration believes that it is essential to maintain sanctions and travel restrictions to deny economic resources to the brutal Castro regime," the White House said in a statement.

The Treasury Department estimates that about 160,000 Americans, half of them Cuban-Americans visiting family members, traveled to Cuba legally last year. Humanitarian and educational groups, journalists and diplomats are also allowed visits, but thousands of other Americans visit illegally, by way of third countries, risking thousands of dollars in fines and imprisonment.

Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, who co-sponsored the amendment to the spending bill with Dorgan, said the Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Asset Control, a key office in the fight against terrorism and drug trafficing, shouldn't be devoting resources to American tourists going to Cuba.

"Ten percent of the OFAC budget is used to track down little old grandmas from the West Coast who through a Canadian travel agency chose to bike in Cuba," he said.

Opponents warned that the provision sent a wrong signal at a time when the Castro regime has escalated its crackdown on dissidents. "Why should we now open up travel to Cuba to give additional cash flow to the Castro regime?" asked Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, chairman of the Appropriations Committee.

Perhaps the time has come to drop our pretense of attempting to dethrone Castro economically and re-establish closer ties with Cuba. This idea is not going to be popular in many areas - those with large Cuban populations want Castro removed. Not kept in power by tourist dollars.
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Tman144 · 10-23-2003, 11:45 AM

Tourism is one of the best ways to get Castro out of power. Most people would rather live in America than in Cuba if they saw what can be achieved here. If we have travel to Cuba, we also bring in our ideas of freedom and proof that capitalism actually works better than other systems. People won't stand for poverty if they know how easy it would be to make money by getting rid of Castro.

The_Dude · 10-23-2003, 11:47 AM

i'm all for completely lifting off the embargo off of cuba. they're not what they were pre 91 and cant really do shit. i dont see why they are our enemy (i dont forsee a invasion launched from cuba in the near future).

it is understandable durin cold war, but it's time to change our foreign policy.

also ironic is the fact that we are immense trading partners with china (who i think is worse than cuba).

onetime2 · 10-23-2003, 06:22 PM

The only problem I have with it is the fact that the island will likely be overrun with tourists and the resulting development would ruin it.

gabshu · 10-24-2003, 09:49 AM

I think the best solution to end communism in Cuba is to end the embargo. Once this is done McDonalds can settle in, and once Cubans have access to this, they will topple the government in a matter of days. I really hate Fidel Castro and can't wait to have him out of Cuba and in court for all his crimes against humanity.

Charlatan · 10-24-2003, 10:34 AM

I think the US should keep tourists out of Cuba... That way is will continue to be an affordable tropical vacation destination with the added bonus of no Americans tourists (he he he)

... now if we could just get rid of the German tourists it would be paradise.

yellowgowild · 10-25-2003, 01:32 PM

I have some family in Cuba that I never met in person, but they say they don't like Fidel at all but everyone down there has a different opinion. Also, it's not like they have no concept of how great things are in the US, but since they're living under a communist dictator and aren't getting any help from us to change, they feel powerless to change anything. Plus they seem kind of lazy.

10-23-2003, 09:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	Vacation in Havava! http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,101032,00.html WASHINGTON — Defying a threatened presidential veto, the Senate joined the House Thursday in moving to end four-decade-old restrictions on travel to Cuba. "It is not constructive at all to try to slap around Fidel Castro by imposing limits on the American people's right to travel," said Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D. The Senate voted 59-36 to bar the use of government money to enforce current travel restrictions. Last month a nearly identical measure passed the House, setting up a showdown with the administration, which says President Bush will veto a $90 billion Transportation and Treasury Department bill if contains the Cuba language. "The administration believes that it is essential to maintain sanctions and travel restrictions to deny economic resources to the brutal Castro regime," the White House said in a statement. The Treasury Department estimates that about 160,000 Americans, half of them Cuban-Americans visiting family members, traveled to Cuba legally last year. Humanitarian and educational groups, journalists and diplomats are also allowed visits, but thousands of other Americans visit illegally, by way of third countries, risking thousands of dollars in fines and imprisonment. Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, who co-sponsored the amendment to the spending bill with Dorgan, said the Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Asset Control, a key office in the fight against terrorism and drug trafficing, shouldn't be devoting resources to American tourists going to Cuba. "Ten percent of the OFAC budget is used to track down little old grandmas from the West Coast who through a Canadian travel agency chose to bike in Cuba," he said. Opponents warned that the provision sent a wrong signal at a time when the Castro regime has escalated its crackdown on dissidents. "Why should we now open up travel to Cuba to give additional cash flow to the Castro regime?" asked Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, chairman of the Appropriations Committee. Perhaps the time has come to drop our pretense of attempting to dethrone Castro economically and re-establish closer ties with Cuba. This idea is not going to be popular in many areas - those with large Cuban populations want Castro removed. Not kept in power by tourist dollars. - __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

10-23-2003, 11:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i'm all for completely lifting off the embargo off of cuba. they're not what they were pre 91 and cant really do shit. i dont see why they are our enemy (i dont forsee a invasion launched from cuba in the near future). it is understandable durin cold war, but it's time to change our foreign policy. also ironic is the fact that we are immense trading partners with china (who i think is worse than cuba). __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

10-23-2003, 06:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	The only problem I have with it is the fact that the island will likely be overrun with tourists and the resulting development would ruin it. __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

10-24-2003, 09:49 AM	#5 (permalink)
gabshu Psycho Location: The capital of the free world??	I think the best solution to end communism in Cuba is to end the embargo. Once this is done McDonalds can settle in, and once Cubans have access to this, they will topple the government in a matter of days. I really hate Fidel Castro and can't wait to have him out of Cuba and in court for all his crimes against humanity. __________________ Go Kool Aid. OH YEAAHH http://www.retrocrush.com/archive2003/koolaid/

10-24-2003, 10:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I think the US should keep tourists out of Cuba... That way is will continue to be an affordable tropical vacation destination with the added bonus of no Americans tourists (he he he) ... now if we could just get rid of the German tourists it would be paradise. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

10-23-2003, 11:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tman144 Tilted	Tourism is one of the best ways to get Castro out of power. Most people would rather live in America than in Cuba if they saw what can be achieved here. If we have travel to Cuba, we also bring in our ideas of freedom and proof that capitalism actually works better than other systems. People won't stand for poverty if they know how easy it would be to make money by getting rid of Castro.

10-25-2003, 01:32 PM	#7 (permalink)
yellowgowild Psycho Location: Tampa	I have some family in Cuba that I never met in person, but they say they don't like Fidel at all but everyone down there has a different opinion. Also, it's not like they have no concept of how great things are in the US, but since they're living under a communist dictator and aren't getting any help from us to change, they feel powerless to change anything. Plus they seem kind of lazy.