Vote before you go to prom. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ustwo · 12-07-2003, 10:11 AM

I'm sure the liberal party wants more votes (see my sig) but to me this seems like a really bad idea...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/polit...101795,00.html

Quote:

'Votes at 16' plan as Blair courts youth

Bid to engage young and combat apathy

Kamal Ahmed, political editor
Sunday December 7, 2003
The Observer

Teenagers will be given the vote at 16 in a historic move being considered by 10 Downing Street and the Department of Constitutional Affairs.
In a signal that the Government wants a major debate on this contentious issue and sympathises with those who argue that the voting age should be lowered from the present 18, Lord Falconer, the Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs, said it was a vital debate and part of the reform agenda he wanted to pursue. 'I think it is a very important issue,' he said in an interview with The Observer.

'We expect more and more of people in relation to personal participation, we expect more and more in terms of social responsibility, in my view rightly, from people, particularly young people.

'If we want to both engage young people and make them discharge their responsibilities then I think there's got to be a quid pro quo of letting them see greater influence in the political process.'
(more in full story)

This just seems like pandering to an easily influenced group of poorly informed voters to me.

meepa · 12-07-2003, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
This just seems like pandering to an easily influenced group of poorly informed voters to me.

Isn't that always the case?

MSD · 12-07-2003, 02:31 PM

Pardon my ignorance, but does the UK have have mandatory voting laws, or is this going to be like the average apathetic US youth who doesn't bother going to the polls?

Mephisto2 · 12-07-2003, 03:49 PM

I'm a liberal (lower case L) and I think this is stupid.

The age of majority is 18 and should remain so.

Mr Mephisto

Sledge · 12-07-2003, 05:08 PM

In the UK, 16-year-olds can drive. They can work. If they work, they are required to pay taxes. They can marry. They can pursue higher education or leave it. They are capable of being educated about politics and getting involved in it. And, like their "adult" counterparts, they are capable of remaining ignorant to what the hell's going on in their country.

I don't see a problem with this.

happyraul · 12-07-2003, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
This just seems like pandering to an easily influenced group of poorly informed voters to me.

This is what was said whenever a new group of people were trying to get suffrage - women, blacks, etc, and it has proved wrong everytime. It was thought for example, that woment would vote as their husbands tell them, or they would vote as religious leaders suggested.

Ustwo · 12-07-2003, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by happyraul
This is what was said whenever a new group of people were trying to get suffrage - women, blacks, etc, and it has proved wrong everytime. It was thought for example, that woment would vote as their husbands tell them, or they would vote as religious leaders suggested.

So why stop at 16?

tbc · 12-07-2003, 09:38 PM

I personally think British 'democracy' needs one hell of a reformation. Some 16 year olds are capable of making informed decisions, probably about as many as the rest of the country. One thing I've learned from doing my politics degree is how little people can know about politics and still vote. Can't we just get a bunch of rational intelligent people who will do what's best for the country to run it rather the sham of popularity politics?

lordjeebus · 12-07-2003, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tbc
Can't we just get a bunch of rational intelligent people who will do what's best for the country to run it rather the sham of popularity politics?

Certainly a tempting idea. Unfortunately it's also the logic that, historically, has led to "enlightened" monarchy, fascism, Leninism, Maoism, etc.

Better to let the ignorant masses decide then to give a powerful few the opportunity to do what they think is best. Even if they act in the people's best interest initially, without a check on their power it can't last...

And who's to decide who the "rational, intelligent" ones are?

Just goes to show that there is no perfect political system.

Sledge · 12-07-2003, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
So why stop at 16?

Because 16 is when they get most of their other rights, too. 12-year-olds can't drive or work, and they aren't required to pay taxes.

It's not an issue of the age 16 per se, it's an issue of timing.

Locobot · 12-08-2003, 01:20 AM

Sledge is right. The magical age at which people are considered adults in the UK is 16. This is how their system is set up, and its not arbitrary. It only follows that they should be allowed the right to vote. My experience has been that the average UK 16 year old is much more mature than the average American 21 year old. It's a pity that we extend childhood so long in this country.

2wolves · 12-08-2003, 04:27 PM

Drat! I thought it said "Vote before you go Porn." My bad.

2Wolves

Moskie · 12-08-2003, 04:56 PM

Just out of curiosity: what other rights, aside from the right to vote, does a 16-year-old not have in the UK? When do they get them?

12-08-2003, 04:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
2wolves Psycho Location: Just outside the D.C. belt	Drat! I thought it said "Vote before you go Porn." My bad. 2Wolves __________________ Nation of the Cat. Forgive maybe, forget .... not quite yet.

12-08-2003, 04:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
Moskie Pure Chewing Satisfaction Location: can i use bbcode [i]here[/i]?	Just out of curiosity: what other rights, aside from the right to vote, does a 16-year-old not have in the UK? When do they get them? __________________ Greetings and salutations.

12-07-2003, 02:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Pardon my ignorance, but does the UK have have mandatory voting laws, or is this going to be like the average apathetic US youth who doesn't bother going to the polls?

12-07-2003, 03:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	I'm a liberal (lower case L) and I think this is stupid. The age of majority is 18 and should remain so. Mr Mephisto

12-07-2003, 05:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sledge Pasture Bedtime	In the UK, 16-year-olds can drive. They can work. If they work, they are required to pay taxes. They can marry. They can pursue higher education or leave it. They are capable of being educated about politics and getting involved in it. And, like their "adult" counterparts, they are capable of remaining ignorant to what the hell's going on in their country. I don't see a problem with this.

12-07-2003, 09:38 PM	#8 (permalink)
tbc Crazy	I personally think British 'democracy' needs one hell of a reformation. Some 16 year olds are capable of making informed decisions, probably about as many as the rest of the country. One thing I've learned from doing my politics degree is how little people can know about politics and still vote. Can't we just get a bunch of rational intelligent people who will do what's best for the country to run it rather the sham of popularity politics?

12-08-2003, 01:20 AM	#11 (permalink)
Locobot is awesome!	Sledge is right. The magical age at which people are considered adults in the UK is 16. This is how their system is set up, and its not arbitrary. It only follows that they should be allowed the right to vote. My experience has been that the average UK 16 year old is much more mature than the average American 21 year old. It's a pity that we extend childhood so long in this country.