Good and Bad, Republicans and Democrats
 

With so many people saying many diffrent things about politics in this country I want to know who you consider to be trustworthy and untrustworthy in your own party. I'm going to try and compile a list here so next time I turn on a debate show I might know whether to turn it off or not.

Good:
D - Al Frankin (Backing up everything in your book with actual sources really helps)
R - John McCain(Don't really know if he is good, but I've never heard anything bad)

Bad:
D - Michael Moore(Too many lies and misrepresentations for me to ever believe what he says again)
R - Ann Coulter(Just lies, all the time)

Amen to all of those.

Al Frankin... dont like him but he doesnt BS like Moore does.

McCain is honorable as well as a vet... while Coulter is an embarrassment to conservatives

I agree but I am still wary of Franken as I think its shitty to lie in a book about exposing liars.

Re: Good and Bad, Republicans and Democrats
 

Makes minor corrections which in themselves change nothing, yet calls someone a liar for it. Gets violent with Alan Colmes at a dinner party because Alan is a liberal working with Sean Hannity. Good my pimpled ass.

Camera hound, enjoys being the 'maverick' for more camera time. Odds are if you see a senator on TV a lot and its not one of the senate leaders, its someone who likes the camera and does things just to get in front of it.

Agreed

Backs up everything she says, and repudiated the 'lies' exposed by Al Frankin. She is hated for being effective, and personally I think a lot of liberals have a hard time dealing with a conservative woman. Next time you are in a book store, pick up one of her books and read it a bit, she uses endnotes too. (oh wait Frankin called her a liar since she called them footnotes which is technically incorrect, but then again the NYT's called them footnotes too).

I'd say if you want a bad for the conservative side go for Michel Savage. He always has seemed like a conservative shock jock to me.

http://slannder.homestead.com/files/slanndermain.html

Franken called her a liar because its been well documented that she lies, I thought this would be an easy one. The footnotes thing was a joke. After he talked about her real lies.

Well, it would be pretty hard to find a politician who wasnt a liar I should think?

I am sure some Republician's and some Democrats are decent people and some are not, but all of them represent a set of political idea's that are basically the same.

Interesting list, but 90% of it doesn't seem to change what was said, only corrects a minor difference, word count, or the like. I think most liberals think she lies because thats what liberal pundits like to call her. Somewhere below I posted a link where she answers some of these claims, but its to late and I'm to lazy to look it up.

(and yes I'm well aware the footnote thing was more a joke in passing)

Now to be sure, I don't take Coulter as all fact, as she does make mistakes in her zeal, and she is too quick to blame this or that on some liberal conspiracy, but I would hardly put her in the same ranks as Moore who's outright fabrications go beyond poor proofreading and research.

I think Coulter is hotter than Moore.....

I think Ustwo has crowned himself king of this thread.

And we all know what happens to people who crown themselves. :)

On topic...I think Coulter fits in with the revisionist historians who use bits and pieces to refute a larger truth (i.e. the Holocost never happened).
Sometimes they are right but most times they are just trying to advance a political agenda.

Just like all groups there are decent, honost, caring people in both parties.
There are also weasley, bombastic, nasty, rude, liars.
You have to use your own judgement to pick them out.

Ann Coulter reminds me of a slightly plain female physics or computer science college student.

She went all through high school not really getting a date and not really being noticed, then she goes to college as is on a course that is 98% full of guys who couldnt get a date at high school either, and they are all hitting on her and it kind of goes to her head.

Well, it may be a stereotype, but you get the idea...

I can't dispute she is better looking than Michael Moore though.

Who would your rather sleep with? Moore or Coulter? LOL

Coulter, but only if she wouldn't speak about politics, and she has to take off the jackboots BEFORE she gets into bed.

I think it is a little bit sad that you can't see that Moore and Coulter are exactly the same. The both create "truth" out of thin air and use it to further their political agendas. Coulter has somewhat cute looks and Moore has the funny, it evens out.

Man you dont like a women with boots on in bed? ;)

Too bad Moore's destest for the common man and the fact that his humor is based on ridiculing them at every oppurtunity doesnt make me laugh.

Actually it's a sliding scale, if you are a perfect 10 you can deep-fat fry a turkey in my bed, if you look like Coulter the boots come off before hand.

And the common man is .... ?

I've read and watched them both and Coulter is not anywhere near as bad as Moore in the fabrication department. Thats my reason for not putting them together based on 'lies lies all lies'. Now if you want to slam Coulter for her tact or her 'blame any liberal' attitude, then be my guest.

And while I'd fuck Coulter long before Moore she REALLY needs to eat a cheeseburger or 10, thin is good but come on. :rolleyes:

LOL good one!!!

Look at all the people being ridiculed in Bowling for Columbine,( bank employess, plant workers, target employess and such) or the people killed in the jetliners that crashed into the WTC on Sept 11, or the union employees that work for british theater that Moore calls "peasents", or the 240 million americans that Moore calls 'idiots' in Stupid WHite Men, or the teachers that he would like to see sued so they can get the smug looks off their faces as he says in Stupid WHite Men, these are the people that Moore likes to poke fun of.

So basically Moore hate America and all the people in it ? I think I have heard this position before from the pahaab people...

I would say his " the dumbest person in England is smarter than the smartest man in America" comment proves that.

So you are saying that what I posted above is incorrect? Moore did not make these and many more comments insulting to the very people he pretends to care about?

Source please !

Thanks for high-jacking this thread Ustwo. You slammed me for my choice for putting Ann in the bad column but then agree later that she should be there. And even if its only 10% of that list is lies(more like 50%), that is what she had written down, meaning that she really ment to do it. So when she talks you can expect more lies than the book because she tends to get upset and start yelling.

So what this boils down to is that yes, Ann lies, and yes, she should not be taken seriously. So please get back to the topic and actually add more people you think are trustworthy and stop arguing about the hittibillity of Ann.

P.S. - She has an addam's apple. "Its a man, baby!"

He said it on British TV on tour for "Dude, where is my country?

Moore, in the role of Amerikanshe Kapo, delighted the crowd when he proclaimed that "the dumbest Brit here is smarter than the smartest American,” prompting Variety Magazine’s reviewer to comment that it was “the most egregious sucking up to a British public that I have ever seen.” On his North American tour in support of Dude, Where’s My Country, Moore substituted Canadians for Britons, telling audiences that the “dumbest Canadian” in attendance could surely outwit “the smartest American.”

As much as I want to believe moorewatch.com, I don't. Infact inlight of finding where a majority of your topics have come from, I have lost a lot of respect.

So you doubt Variety Magazine now too?

Prove that Variety Magazine reported that, with a link that others can read preferably.

I never agreed she should be there based on your criteria. Her 'lies' are exaggerated by those who oppose her.

I don't agree with 3 of your 4 choises, sorry.

How much more evidence do you people need?
Ann-
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20030630.html

Moore-
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20031016.html

Those are just two of many articles written about both of those people. They both lie and distort the truth. How can any of you continue to believe what these people say? Just because someone agrees with you doesn't make them right or honest.

Sorry it was the Guardian, not Variety.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/green...9682%2C00.html

"Soon he is constructing a sketch around a live on-stage phone call to a Pizza Hut in Oman in a surreal search for Osama bin Laden, and getting members of the audience to prove his hunch that even the dumbest Brit is smarter than the cleverest American. Neither sketch works, but the daring is the thing. It would spoil the surprise to reveal what he gets the audience to do with their Nectar loyalty cards, but symbolically it is the greatest line-crossing of the lot.

Politics probably brings in most of Moore's audience. But his show owes more to the traditional comic repertoire than you might expect. Moore may look as though he has just shambled in from the bar to give you a few funny political rants, but do not be deceived. The man is a stand-up comic in the grand tradition " Bold's added at my disgression

Quoting for your own purposes never quite works out right, eh ? Especially when the quote is more than a bit out of context.

I like Al Franken, and I believe him, but he can be quite rude. John McCain scares me a little. He is honorable, but I worry about his politics. I voted for him in the primaries, though. I haven't read enough of Moore to really comment, but Moorewatch seems like typical smear tactics, so I am disinclined to file him as bad to the same degree I would be disinclined to file McCain as good (not entirely, but I have reservations). Anne Coulter, however, is a wart on the ass of political discourse. Her last book wasn't titled, it was labeled. She couldn't be less honest without working directly for the administration.

Coulter, but it would be grudge fucking all the way. {Evil Laugh}

Thanks for the chuckle, man.

Thats what both Moore and Ann do, which is why I don't like them. Now, please, can we get back to the part where other people tell me some republicans I can believe because that was the real motive for making this topic.

To give a little twist to this topic, I'm going to list Republicans I respect and feel are trustworthy, and Democrats who I don't and feel aren't.

Chuck Hagel
Richard Lugar
Ben Campbell
Olympia Snowe
Elizabeth Dole
Susan Collins
George Voinovich
Lincoln Chafee

Now for the Democrats:

John Breaux
Robert Byrd
Zell Miller
Ted Kennedy

Did you not see "Roger & Me"? At what point do you think you can honestly state that Michael Moore cares less for the common man than say, your average Conservative Shock-Jock?

So proving a hunch that the dumbest Brit is smarter than the cleverest American is not the same as what I posted? :rolleyes:

When he failed to interveiw the leaders of the town community. Gm's job is to provid for GM, not Flint. I think it odd that Moore didnt stalk the mayor nor the govenor. Not saying that Roger was a good person, but he did what was best for his company, as he was paid to do. What incentives was Ford given to stay? What tax breaks? Why did the failing government get off the hook in Moore's film?

HEY!

Does anybody else other than Sparhawk,
have any more examples than the inital four people given?

Come people, think.

I'll come up with mine as soon as I get home.

Some more Republicans I respect a great deal:

Bob Dole
Colin Powell
Anthony Zinni
George H.W. Bush
Wesley Clark (heehee!)
John McCain (I agree that he belongs on this list)

Abraham Lincoln....though i bet that one is a bit outdated. hehe.

Warren Rudman should also be added to this list (R, New Hampshire) who, along with Gary Hart (D, Colorado) had the foresight, long before September 11, to call for a much tougher stand against terrorism, and Al Qaeda in particular.

Any of those cheese-ball republican hardball radio guys. I was listening to a guy named shawn hannity. Who let this nazi on the air??

mr b

I wasnt aware that Hannity killed 12 million people.

You didn't hear about that trial in Rwanda where they put three media execs in prison for incitement to murder? Hannity will have his moment against the wall when the revolution comes. /channeling Strange Famous


Good point.
Republicans I respect:
Abraham Lincoln
Olympia Snow
Connie Morella
Wesley Clarke
Dwight Eisenhower
Jim Jeffords
Lowell Weiker
Quentin Kendall (GWB's Virginia campaign manager, and only because I know the man personally and am 100% certain that he was hoodwinked by his iron sense of honor.)

Democrats I respect:
Robert Byrd (At this point he's too old to have anything to lose by doing anything but speaking his mind. Let me suggest that one can safely ignore his bigoted past at this point; I really think he has left it behind him.)
Chris Dodd
Gary Hart
Walter Cronkite
Jimmy Carter
Howard Dean
John Edwards
John Kerry (Not enough to vote for him, though)
Dick Gephardt (Ditto)
Molly Ivins
Al Gore
Bartcop

Republicans I have no respect for:
John Breaux (as with Wesley Clark, I'm going with the party of the heart here, not the party of record.)
Tom Delay
Pat Buchanan
Pat Robertson
Jerry Falwell
George W. Bush and everyone in his administration except Colin Powell
Elizabeth Dole (Media whore. What was that Iran thing? Worry not, the Dems get theirs later.)
Ronald Reagan (Poetic Justice)
Robert Bork
Bill Bennett
Antonin Scalia
Chief Justice Rhenquist
Clarence Thomas
Ted Nugent
Grover Norquist
The list could continue for pages, suffice it to say that if I didn't list them as respected there's better than an 80% chance it's because I haven't got any for them.)

Democrats I have no respect for:
Joe Lieberman
Hillary Clinton (Not that I wouldn't vote for her if she were nominated)
Carol Mosely Braun
Barbara Boxer
Henry Waxman
... All the rest that think that gov't is your daddy
Al Sharpton (Clown. Racist one at that.)

And one who fits in every one of those categories: Bill Clinton

It might be more meaningful if you WHY you respected/didn't respect someone. Otherwise its rather pointless.

tophat,

why would you vote for a person you have no respect for?

Ustwo and Endymon32, 18 posts in this thread between the two of you, with exactly 0 "Good and Bad, Republicans and Democrats".

It might be more meaningful if YOU actually contributed. Otherwise, it's rather pointless.

I respect

Bush
Cheney
Powel
Ashcroft

For doing what should have been done, doing it the right way. And making the world safer in the process

I do not respect

Howard Dean
for pandering to fear and saying what he thinks will get him support even though he is clearly wrong and knows it ( "the world is not safer")
For ignoring his states atomic energy commision and then claiming to be for the enviroment, for giving tax cuts for the rich and claiming he is for the poor of vernmont.

Al Sharpton nuff said

Micheal Moore for just plain lying every time he breaths

Wesly Clark, for never answering a question, and for ording our troops to fire on allies, for hanging out with wanted war criminals instead of turning him in, as was his duty.

Hilary Clinton for being a carpet bagger opportunist that failed at ever public responciblity she ever held ( where is my universal health care you were apointed to get?)
She gives nice speaches, but why does she not stand behind her words?

I really wish you were kidding and yet I know you aren't.

Why? Please cite examples to explain your postion.

Ashcroft is the devil, didn't you know that?

That's two party politics for you. In order for the people who I do respect most to have maximum effect, it seems reasonable to me to support what otherwise might be some pretty awful folks. Joe Lieberman is another one who I might find myself forced to support at some point, even though I think the difference between him and Dubya are a haircut and one old dead hippy. Will I like it? No. Would I vote for a Republican? While I can envision circumstances in which that might be a viable action for me to take, in the current climate, polarized as it is, I do not see how those circumstances could come about in the next twenty years.

Now, as for why I respect or don't respect some of these folks:
Olympia Snow, Connie Morella, Lowell Weiker, and Jim Jeffords have been willing to tell their party (which I believe to have he wrong vision for this country) that it was wrong on occasion, and Jeffords even had the balls to back it up.

Dwight Eisenhower was a general, so he has the defense of country in the last meaninful war in which we were involved in his favor, but he recognized and spoke about the dangers of the "Military Industrial Complex. You hear that phrase so much from fringe leftists these days that it's easy to forget it's Ike's.

Abraham Lincoln kept the country whole.

Quentin Kendall has personal honor in spades.

Now, as for Clark, I respect his shrewdness in seeing that another Republican would be a viable alternative to Bush, but that he needed to challenge from the Democratic side to stand a chance of winning. I don't think it's a big chance, but I would vote for him if it came up. Further, it seems to me that Kosovo remains a pointful and successful operation, pretty well carried out. He has been plain spoken and direct, and able to change his mind when better ideas occurred or were presented him before, but, as his early poll performance has show, that doesn't play so well , so he has changed his style to suit. Frankly, I think he would make a fine Secretary of Defense.

That covers Republicans I respect, but that's as much time as I want to spend on it at the moment. Perhaps more later.

Citing example that ashcroft is a douche, what fun this will be...

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0148/hentoff.php
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in512021.shtml
http://baltimorechronicle.com/perspective_dec01.html http://archive.aclu.org/congress/l101701a.html
http://archive.aclu.org/news/2002/n032002b.html
http://www.talkleft.com/archives/004058.html
http://www.cpusa.org/article/articleview/313/1/3/
http://www.aclu-em.org/newslett/2001libe/aclurepo/
http://www.aclj.org/news/nationalsec...u_denounce.asp
http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/sep03/170277.asp
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0315-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views/122800-102.htm
http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/John_Ashcroft_Drugs.htm
http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/John...t_Abortion.htm
http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/John...d_Security.htm
http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/John...vil_Rights.htm
http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/John_Ashcroft_Crime.htm
http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/John..._Education.htm

Actually I could list every issues2002 with ashcroft, he's that much of a douche, but in the interest of time I'll stop there.

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/02/features-mikulan.php

Attacks on Civil liberties, believes christanity should be the required national religion, put chong in jail, put cloths on a topless statue in justice department... the list goes on and on, Ashcroft is the biggest douche ever.

*mods forgive the gratatious use of the word of "douche" but ashcroft is a really big douche

Of the handful of non-leftwing/ far-leftwing, sites, all were opinion pieces except for the Liberian bit.

Since its Ashcroft’s job to enforce the laws the the land not MAKE the laws, and the patriot act IS the law of the land, Ashcroft would be an asshat for NOT following it. Its not his job to decide which laws are 'worthy', unlike say, a left wing judge who thinks it is.

lol

1. So what if they are left-wing, ad homs are bad.
2. So what if they are opinion pieces, it goes to show other people believe ashcroft is a douche too. also an ad hom
3. Issues2000 is straight from congress/statements, no spin
4. Ashcroft does create law by influencing bush, who might I add is a puppet of rums/cheny since he gets all of his info from them.

Bush doesnt make laws either.

To believe that the president doesn't have a massive influence on the legislature is at best naive, at worst grossly ignorant.

Good:
John McCain (R)
Chuck Hagel (R)
Mark Dayton (D)
Dennis Kucinich (D)
Late Paul Welstone (D)

Bad:
Ben Nelson (D)
Christopher Dodd (D)
Joseph Lieberman (D)
Bill Frist (R)
Orrin Hatch (R)
Trent Lott (R)

And Bush still doesnt make laws. Congress does.

Not for lack of trying. wink wink guantanamo bay, wink wink easing restrictions on coal power plants, wink wink, more arsenic for everybody.

Somthing in your eyes?

All Republians and Democrats are far to the right of me politically

but I would say

American Democrat I like - Howard Zinn
American Democtat I dont like - Bill Clinton, John Kennedy

American Republican I like - Joseph Lieberman (if I had to pick one)
American Republican I hate - Dubya, Rice

I used to be a big MM fan. I thought he did a good job of Roger and Me. I started to watch his TV Nation religiously (Karen Duffy was hawt!). Then one night he did a feature on the Michigan Militia. Now, don't get me wrong, I despise the whole militia movement, and sympathize with them not at all. What I saw though, was a pompous, holier-than-thou prick goading a bunch of simple, poor, uneducated guys who were down on their luck and pissed off. He degraded them on national TV for 15 heavily edited minutes, and they never caught on to what he was doing. I haven't watched any of his rubbish since.

He's a democrat, but you're not from here so that's ok :)

He's also the reason I came to this thread. Did a search in Tilted Politics for Lieberman and found his name mentioned here. So I'll add my 2c and say that every single time I see Joe Lieberman this presidential campaign I gain more and more respect for him. He's the only Democratic candidate with reasonable views, and he's also a class-A gentleman.

He's near the top of my list of potential people I'd vote for in November (haven't seen who the third-party candidates are yet so I can't say he's at the top).