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Old 01-03-2004, 10:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Good and Bad, Republicans and Democrats

With so many people saying many diffrent things about politics in this country I want to know who you consider to be trustworthy and untrustworthy in your own party. I'm going to try and compile a list here so next time I turn on a debate show I might know whether to turn it off or not.

Good:
D - Al Frankin (Backing up everything in your book with actual sources really helps)
R - John McCain(Don't really know if he is good, but I've never heard anything bad)

Bad:
D - Michael Moore(Too many lies and misrepresentations for me to ever believe what he says again)
R - Ann Coulter(Just lies, all the time)
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Old 01-03-2004, 11:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Amen to all of those.

Al Frankin... dont like him but he doesnt BS like Moore does.

McCain is honorable as well as a vet... while Coulter is an embarrassment to conservatives
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Old 01-03-2004, 11:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I agree but I am still wary of Franken as I think its shitty to lie in a book about exposing liars.
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Old 01-03-2004, 11:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Good and Bad, Republicans and Democrats

Quote:
Originally posted by Tman144

Good:
D - Al Frankin (Backing up everything in your book with actual sources really helps)
Makes minor corrections which in themselves change nothing, yet calls someone a liar for it. Gets violent with Alan Colmes at a dinner party because Alan is a liberal working with Sean Hannity. Good my pimpled ass.

Quote:
R - John McCain(Don't really know if he is good, but I've never heard anything bad)
Camera hound, enjoys being the 'maverick' for more camera time. Odds are if you see a senator on TV a lot and its not one of the senate leaders, its someone who likes the camera and does things just to get in front of it.

Quote:
Bad:
D - Michael Moore(Too many lies and misrepresentations for me to ever believe what he says again)
Agreed

Quote:
R - Ann Coulter(Just lies, all the time)
Backs up everything she says, and repudiated the 'lies' exposed by Al Frankin. She is hated for being effective, and personally I think a lot of liberals have a hard time dealing with a conservative woman. Next time you are in a book store, pick up one of her books and read it a bit, she uses endnotes too. (oh wait Frankin called her a liar since she called them footnotes which is technically incorrect, but then again the NYT's called them footnotes too).

I'd say if you want a bad for the conservative side go for Michel Savage. He always has seemed like a conservative shock jock to me.
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Old 01-04-2004, 12:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
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http://slannder.homestead.com/files/slanndermain.html

Franken called her a liar because its been well documented that she lies, I thought this would be an easy one. The footnotes thing was a joke. After he talked about her real lies.
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Old 01-04-2004, 01:08 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Well, it would be pretty hard to find a politician who wasnt a liar I should think?

I am sure some Republician's and some Democrats are decent people and some are not, but all of them represent a set of political idea's that are basically the same.
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Old 01-04-2004, 01:12 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tman144
http://slannder.homestead.com/files/slanndermain.html

Franken called her a liar because its been well documented that she lies, I thought this would be an easy one. The footnotes thing was a joke. After he talked about her real lies.
Interesting list, but 90% of it doesn't seem to change what was said, only corrects a minor difference, word count, or the like. I think most liberals think she lies because thats what liberal pundits like to call her. Somewhere below I posted a link where she answers some of these claims, but its to late and I'm to lazy to look it up.

(and yes I'm well aware the footnote thing was more a joke in passing)

Now to be sure, I don't take Coulter as all fact, as she does make mistakes in her zeal, and she is too quick to blame this or that on some liberal conspiracy, but I would hardly put her in the same ranks as Moore who's outright fabrications go beyond poor proofreading and research.
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Last edited by Ustwo; 01-04-2004 at 01:24 AM..
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Old 01-04-2004, 01:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I think Coulter is hotter than Moore.....
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Old 01-04-2004, 02:18 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I think Ustwo has crowned himself king of this thread.
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Old 01-04-2004, 07:06 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy4
I think Ustwo has crowned himself king of this thread.
And we all know what happens to people who crown themselves.

On topic...I think Coulter fits in with the revisionist historians who use bits and pieces to refute a larger truth (i.e. the Holocost never happened).
Sometimes they are right but most times they are just trying to advance a political agenda.

Just like all groups there are decent, honost, caring people in both parties.
There are also weasley, bombastic, nasty, rude, liars.
You have to use your own judgement to pick them out.

Last edited by redravin40; 01-04-2004 at 07:20 AM..
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Old 01-04-2004, 07:21 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Ann Coulter reminds me of a slightly plain female physics or computer science college student.

She went all through high school not really getting a date and not really being noticed, then she goes to college as is on a course that is 98% full of guys who couldnt get a date at high school either, and they are all hitting on her and it kind of goes to her head.

Well, it may be a stereotype, but you get the idea...

I can't dispute she is better looking than Michael Moore though.
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Old 01-04-2004, 08:45 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Who would your rather sleep with? Moore or Coulter? LOL
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Old 01-04-2004, 09:06 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Endymon32
Who would your rather sleep with? Moore or Coulter? LOL
Coulter, but only if she wouldn't speak about politics, and she has to take off the jackboots BEFORE she gets into bed.
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Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."
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Old 01-04-2004, 09:08 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Location: UCSB
Quote:
Originally posted by Ustwo
Interesting list, but 90% of it doesn't seem to change what was said, only corrects a minor difference, word count, or the like. I think most liberals think she lies because thats what liberal pundits like to call her. Somewhere below I posted a link where she answers some of these claims, but its to late and I'm to lazy to look it up.

(and yes I'm well aware the footnote thing was more a joke in passing)

Now to be sure, I don't take Coulter as all fact, as she does make mistakes in her zeal, and she is too quick to blame this or that on some liberal conspiracy, but I would hardly put her in the same ranks as Moore who's outright fabrications go beyond poor proofreading and research.
I think it is a little bit sad that you can't see that Moore and Coulter are exactly the same. The both create "truth" out of thin air and use it to further their political agendas. Coulter has somewhat cute looks and Moore has the funny, it evens out.
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Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."
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Old 01-04-2004, 09:18 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by nanofever
Coulter, but only if she wouldn't speak about politics, and she has to take off the jackboots BEFORE she gets into bed.
Man you dont like a women with boots on in bed?
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Old 01-04-2004, 09:19 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by nanofever
I think it is a little bit sad that you can't see that Moore and Coulter are exactly the same. The both create "truth" out of thin air and use it to further their political agendas. Coulter has somewhat cute looks and Moore has the funny, it evens out.
Too bad Moore's destest for the common man and the fact that his humor is based on ridiculing them at every oppurtunity doesnt make me laugh.
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Old 01-04-2004, 09:20 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Location: UCSB
Quote:
Originally posted by Endymon32
Man you dont like a women with boots on in bed?
Actually it's a sliding scale, if you are a perfect 10 you can deep-fat fry a turkey in my bed, if you look like Coulter the boots come off before hand.
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Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."
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Old 01-04-2004, 09:21 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Endymon32
Too bad Moore's destest for the common man and the fact that his humor is based on ridiculing them at every oppurtunity doesnt make me laugh.
And the common man is .... ?
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Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."
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Old 01-04-2004, 09:45 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by nanofever
I think it is a little bit sad that you can't see that Moore and Coulter are exactly the same. The both create "truth" out of thin air and use it to further their political agendas. Coulter has somewhat cute looks and Moore has the funny, it evens out.
I've read and watched them both and Coulter is not anywhere near as bad as Moore in the fabrication department. Thats my reason for not putting them together based on 'lies lies all lies'. Now if you want to slam Coulter for her tact or her 'blame any liberal' attitude, then be my guest.

And while I'd fuck Coulter long before Moore she REALLY needs to eat a cheeseburger or 10, thin is good but come on.
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Old 01-04-2004, 09:52 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by nanofever
Actually it's a sliding scale, if you are a perfect 10 you can deep-fat fry a turkey in my bed, if you look like Coulter the boots come off before hand.

LOL good one!!!
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Old 01-04-2004, 09:55 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by nanofever
And the common man is .... ?

Look at all the people being ridiculed in Bowling for Columbine,( bank employess, plant workers, target employess and such) or the people killed in the jetliners that crashed into the WTC on Sept 11, or the union employees that work for british theater that Moore calls "peasents", or the 240 million americans that Moore calls 'idiots' in Stupid WHite Men, or the teachers that he would like to see sued so they can get the smug looks off their faces as he says in Stupid WHite Men, these are the people that Moore likes to poke fun of.

Last edited by Endymon32; 01-04-2004 at 09:57 AM..
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Old 01-04-2004, 09:58 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Endymon32
Look at all the people being ridiculed in Bowling for Columbine,( bank employess, plant workers, target employess and such) or the people killed in the jetliners that crashed into the WTC on Sept 11, or the union employees that work for british theater that Moore calls "peasents", these are the people that Moore likes to poke fun of.
So basically Moore hate America and all the people in it ? I think I have heard this position before from the pahaab people...
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Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."
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Old 01-04-2004, 10:00 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by nanofever
So basically Moore hate America and all the people in it ? I think I have heard this position before from the pahaab people...
I would say his " the dumbest person in England is smarter than the smartest man in America" comment proves that.

So you are saying that what I posted above is incorrect? Moore did not make these and many more comments insulting to the very people he pretends to care about?
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Old 01-04-2004, 10:03 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Endymon32
I would say his " the dumbest person in England is smarter than the smartest man in America" comment proves that.

So you are saying that what I posted above is incorrect? Moore did not make these and many more comments insulting to the very people he pretends to care about?
Source please !
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Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."
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Old 01-04-2004, 03:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Thanks for high-jacking this thread Ustwo. You slammed me for my choice for putting Ann in the bad column but then agree later that she should be there. And even if its only 10% of that list is lies(more like 50%), that is what she had written down, meaning that she really ment to do it. So when she talks you can expect more lies than the book because she tends to get upset and start yelling.

So what this boils down to is that yes, Ann lies, and yes, she should not be taken seriously. So please get back to the topic and actually add more people you think are trustworthy and stop arguing about the hittibillity of Ann.

P.S. - She has an addam's apple. "Its a man, baby!"
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Old 01-04-2004, 04:08 PM   #26 (permalink)
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He said it on British TV on tour for "Dude, where is my country?

Moore, in the role of Amerikanshe Kapo, delighted the crowd when he proclaimed that "the dumbest Brit here is smarter than the smartest American,” prompting Variety Magazine’s reviewer to comment that it was “the most egregious sucking up to a British public that I have ever seen.” On his North American tour in support of Dude, Where’s My Country, Moore substituted Canadians for Britons, telling audiences that the “dumbest Canadian” in attendance could surely outwit “the smartest American.”
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Old 01-04-2004, 04:25 PM   #27 (permalink)
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How about we get back on the topic?
Answer the man's question.
Rather than dissin' everyone's choice always
Keep it cool
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Old 01-04-2004, 04:30 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Endymon32
He said it on British TV on tour for "Dude, where is my country?

Moore, in the role of Amerikanshe Kapo, delighted the crowd when he proclaimed that "the dumbest Brit here is smarter than the smartest American,” prompting Variety Magazine’s reviewer to comment that it was “the most egregious sucking up to a British public that I have ever seen.” On his North American tour in support of Dude, Where’s My Country, Moore substituted Canadians for Britons, telling audiences that the “dumbest Canadian” in attendance could surely outwit “the smartest American.”
As much as I want to believe moorewatch.com, I don't. Infact inlight of finding where a majority of your topics have come from, I have lost a lot of respect.
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Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."
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Old 01-04-2004, 04:38 PM   #29 (permalink)
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So you doubt Variety Magazine now too?
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Old 01-04-2004, 05:12 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Endymon32
So you doubt Variety Magazine now too?
Prove that Variety Magazine reported that, with a link that others can read preferably.
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Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."
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Old 01-04-2004, 05:33 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tman144
Thanks for high-jacking this thread Ustwo. You slammed me for my choice for putting Ann in the bad column but then agree later that she should be there. And even if its only 10% of that list is lies(more like 50%), that is what she had written down, meaning that she really ment to do it. So when she talks you can expect more lies than the book because she tends to get upset and start yelling.

So what this boils down to is that yes, Ann lies, and yes, she should not be taken seriously. So please get back to the topic and actually add more people you think are trustworthy and stop arguing about the hittibillity of Ann.

P.S. - She has an addam's apple. "Its a man, baby!"
I never agreed she should be there based on your criteria. Her 'lies' are exaggerated by those who oppose her.

I don't agree with 3 of your 4 choises, sorry.
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Old 01-04-2004, 05:47 PM   #32 (permalink)
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How much more evidence do you people need?
Ann-
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20030630.html

Moore-
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20031016.html

Those are just two of many articles written about both of those people. They both lie and distort the truth. How can any of you continue to believe what these people say? Just because someone agrees with you doesn't make them right or honest.
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Old 01-04-2004, 08:46 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by nanofever
Prove that Variety Magazine reported that, with a link that others can read preferably.
Sorry it was the Guardian, not Variety.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/green...9682%2C00.html

Quote:
Soon he is constructing a sketch around a live on-stage phone call to a Pizza Hut in Oman in a surreal search for Osama bin Laden, and getting members of the audience to prove his hunch that even the dumbest Brit is smarter than the cleverest American.
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Old 01-05-2004, 12:17 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Endymon32
Sorry it was the Guardian, not Variety.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/green...9682%2C00.html
"Soon he is constructing a sketch around a live on-stage phone call to a Pizza Hut in Oman in a surreal search for Osama bin Laden, and getting members of the audience to prove his hunch that even the dumbest Brit is smarter than the cleverest American. Neither sketch works, but the daring is the thing. It would spoil the surprise to reveal what he gets the audience to do with their Nectar loyalty cards, but symbolically it is the greatest line-crossing of the lot.

Politics probably brings in most of Moore's audience. But his show owes more to the traditional comic repertoire than you might expect. Moore may look as though he has just shambled in from the bar to give you a few funny political rants, but do not be deceived. The man is a stand-up comic in the grand tradition " Bold's added at my disgression

Quoting for your own purposes never quite works out right, eh ? Especially when the quote is more than a bit out of context.
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Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."
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Old 01-05-2004, 06:17 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I like Al Franken, and I believe him, but he can be quite rude. John McCain scares me a little. He is honorable, but I worry about his politics. I voted for him in the primaries, though. I haven't read enough of Moore to really comment, but Moorewatch seems like typical smear tactics, so I am disinclined to file him as bad to the same degree I would be disinclined to file McCain as good (not entirely, but I have reservations). Anne Coulter, however, is a wart on the ass of political discourse. Her last book wasn't titled, it was labeled. She couldn't be less honest without working directly for the administration.

Quote:
Originally posted by Endymon32
Who would your rather sleep with? Moore or Coulter? LOL
Coulter, but it would be grudge fucking all the way. {Evil Laugh}

Thanks for the chuckle, man.
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Old 01-05-2004, 10:19 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Quoting for your own purposes never quite works out right, eh ? Especially when the quote is more than a bit out of context.
Thats what both Moore and Ann do, which is why I don't like them. Now, please, can we get back to the part where other people tell me some republicans I can believe because that was the real motive for making this topic.
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Old 01-05-2004, 10:34 AM   #37 (permalink)
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To give a little twist to this topic, I'm going to list Republicans I respect and feel are trustworthy, and Democrats who I don't and feel aren't.

Chuck Hagel
Richard Lugar
Ben Campbell
Olympia Snowe
Elizabeth Dole
Susan Collins
George Voinovich
Lincoln Chafee

Now for the Democrats:

John Breaux
Robert Byrd
Zell Miller
Ted Kennedy
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Old 01-05-2004, 01:00 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Endymon32
Too bad Moore's destest for the common man and the fact that his humor is based on ridiculing them at every oppurtunity doesnt make me laugh.
Did you not see "Roger & Me"? At what point do you think you can honestly state that Michael Moore cares less for the common man than say, your average Conservative Shock-Jock?
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Old 01-05-2004, 01:46 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by nanofever
"Soon he is constructing a sketch around a live on-stage phone call to a Pizza Hut in Oman in a surreal search for Osama bin Laden, and getting members of the audience to prove his hunch that even the dumbest Brit is smarter than the cleverest American. Neither sketch works, but the daring is the thing. It would spoil the surprise to reveal what he gets the audience to do with their Nectar loyalty cards, but symbolically it is the greatest line-crossing of the lot.

Politics probably brings in most of Moore's audience. But his show owes more to the traditional comic repertoire than you might expect. Moore may look as though he has just shambled in from the bar to give you a few funny political rants, but do not be deceived. The man is a stand-up comic in the grand tradition " Bold's added at my disgression

Quoting for your own purposes never quite works out right, eh ? Especially when the quote is more than a bit out of context.

So proving a hunch that the dumbest Brit is smarter than the cleverest American is not the same as what I posted?
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Old 01-05-2004, 01:50 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by drown_with_me
Did you not see "Roger & Me"? At what point do you think you can honestly state that Michael Moore cares less for the common man than say, your average Conservative Shock-Jock?
When he failed to interveiw the leaders of the town community. Gm's job is to provid for GM, not Flint. I think it odd that Moore didnt stalk the mayor nor the govenor. Not saying that Roger was a good person, but he did what was best for his company, as he was paid to do. What incentives was Ford given to stay? What tax breaks? Why did the failing government get off the hook in Moore's film?
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