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Old 01-13-2004, 04:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: Within the Woods
John Rhys-Davies (Gimli in LoTR-movies) speaks about Isalm and other things.

Quote:
Jeffrey: How much of Tolkien’s Catholic beliefs and perspective resonate with you?

I’m burying my career so substantially in these interviews that it’s painful. But I think that there are some questions that demand honest answers.

I think that Tolkien says that some generations will be challenged. And if they do not rise to meet that challenge, they will lose their civilization. That does have a real resonance with me.

I have had the ideal background for being an actor. I have always been an outsider. I grew up in colonial Africa. And I remember in 1955, it would have to be somewhere between July the 25th when the school holiday started and September the 18th when the holidays ended. My father took me down to the quayside in Dar-Es-Salaam harbor. And he pointed out a dhow in the harbor and he said, “You see that dhow there? Twice a year it comes down from Aden. It stops here and goes down [South]. On the way down it's got boxes of machinery and goods. On the way back up it’s got two or three little black boys on it. Now, those boys are slaves. And the United Nations will not let me do anything about it.”

The conversation went on. “Look, boy. There is not going to be a World War between Russia and the United. The next World War will be between Islam and the West.”

This is 1955! I said to him, “Dad, you’re nuts! The Crusades have been over for hundreds of years!”

And he said, “Well, I know, but militant Islam is on the rise again. And you will see it in your lifetime.”

He’s been dead some years now. But there’s not a day that goes by that I don’t think of him and think, “God, I wish you were here, just so I could tell you that you were right.”

What is unconscionable is that too many of your fellow journalists do not understand how precarious Western civilization is and what a jewel it is.

How did we get the sort of real democracy, how did we get the level of tolerance that allows me to propound something that may be completely alien to you around this table, and yet you will take it and you will think about it and you’ll say no you’re wrong because of this and this and this. And I’ll listen and I’ll say, “Well, actually, maybe I am wrong because of this and this.”

[He points at a female reporter and adopts an authoritarian voice, to play a militant-Islam character:] ‘You should not be in this room. Because your husband or your father is not hear to guide you. You could only be here in this room with these strange men for immoral purposes.’

I mean… the abolition of slavery comes from Western democracy. True Democracy comes form our Greco-Judeo-Christian-Western experience. If we lose these things, then this is a catastrophe for the world.

And there is a demographic catastrophe happening in Europe that nobody wants to talk about, that we daren’t bring up because we are so cagey about not offending people racially. And rightly we should be. But there is a cultural thing as well.

By 2020, 50% of the children in Holland under the age of 18 will be of Muslim descent. You look and see what your founding fathers thought of the Dutch. They are constantly looking at the rise of democracy and Dutch values as being the very foundation of American Democracy. If by the mid-century the bulk of Holland is Muslim—and don’t forget, coupled with this there is this collapse of numbers ... Western Europeans are not having any babies. The population of Germany at the end of the century is going to be 56% of what it is now. The populations of France, 52% of what it is now. The population of Italy is going to be down 7 million people. There is a change happening in the very complexion of Western civilization in Europe that we should think about at least and argue about. If it just means the replacement of one genetic stock with another genetic stock, that doesn’t matter too much. But if it involves the replacement of Western civilization with a different civilization with different cultural values, then it is something we really ought to discuss—because, g**dammit, I am for dead white male culture.

You do realize in this town what I’ve been saying [is like] blasphemy…

…but we’ve got to get a bit serious. By and large our cultures and our society are resilient enough to put up with any sort of nonsense. But if Tolkien’s got a message, it’s that “Sometimes you’ve got to stand up and fight for what you believe in.” He knew what he was fighting for in WW1.

[With that, he departed our appreciative and applauding table, saying:] Try and put verbs in my sentences.
Links: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1042278/posts
Full interview: http://promontoryartists.org/looking...heking-jrd.htm

Any thoughts on the matter?

I don't agree with him really, as I don't view Islam as the great threat ( http://www.islamonline.net/english/i...am/index.shtml )... I don't find it worse than any other religion really.
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Old 01-13-2004, 07:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mehoni
Links: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1042278/posts
Full interview: http://promontoryartists.org/looking...heking-jrd.htm

Any thoughts on the matter?

I don't agree with him really, as I don't view Islam as the great threat ( http://www.islamonline.net/english/i...am/index.shtml )... I don't find it worse than any other religion really.
I don't think its Islam either, nor do I think he is talking about Islam. I think he is talking about militant Islam, and with that I would agree with him.
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Old 01-13-2004, 07:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think the Islamic culture and mindset is very dangerous is the parlance of our time. Much of the Islamic world is clinging on to there mudhut patriachly repressive society of the past, or in many cases they are going back to it through theocracy's and Shaa'ra (religious) law. There is some hope out there though, Iran is really surpising me in there lust for moderate legitimate democracy.
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Old 01-13-2004, 07:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Islam : Islamic fundamentalists :: Christianity : KKK

Thank you, West Wing. Well, and the SAT.
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Old 01-13-2004, 08:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I see a parallel in these rigid theocracies with their daily edicts and the christian coalition movement in the states. Jerry Falwell has more in common with, say, Saudi Arabian culture than he does with normal Americans.

That being said, I don't hold with many Americans fairly casually replacing "Communists" with "Muslims" as the bogeyman of the 21st Century.
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Old 01-13-2004, 08:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Conclamo Ludus
I don't think its Islam either, nor do I think he is talking about Islam. I think he is talking about militant Islam, and with that I would agree with him.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kadath
Islam : Islamic fundamentalists :: Christianity : KKK

Thank you, West Wing. Well, and the SAT.
What they said. I think that this is going to come to a head during our generation, and that even as he said, it may be our generation's largest and most important undertaking. I dont think that it will be the end of Western Civilization, but I do think that we will see some changes in the way our Western Civilizations operate.
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Old 01-13-2004, 08:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kadath
Islam : Islamic fundamentalists :: Christianity : KKK

Thank you, West Wing. Well, and the SAT.
Please elaborate. Sure the KKK is a bunch of bigots and worthless human beings, but I don't see them repressing woman, human rights, keeping the slave trade alive, flying planes into buildings, commiting suicide bombings, or being embroiled in the majority of the worlds conflicts.
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Old 01-13-2004, 08:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sparhawk
I see a parallel in these rigid theocracies with their daily edicts and the christian coalition movement in the states. Jerry Falwell has more in common with, say, Saudi Arabian culture than he does with normal Americans.

That being said, I don't hold with many Americans fairly casually replacing "Communists" with "Muslims" as the bogeyman of the 21st Century.
Again your all to quick to just "throw" chrisitianity in there. Show me where anywhere on the planet they Christians anywhere are suscribing to/and or perpetuating the same evil as militant Islam. And again like the KKK Jerry Falwell might be a bigot and unagreeable, but I don't see him flying planes into buildings amongst a list of other atrocities.
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Old 01-14-2004, 05:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Location: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Please elaborate. Sure the KKK is a bunch of bigots and worthless human beings, but I don't see them repressing woman, human rights, keeping the slave trade alive, flying planes into buildings, commiting suicide bombings, or being embroiled in the majority of the worlds conflicts.
The "principles" espoused by the KKK are similar to those of militant Islam. No racial mixing, misappropriation of religious beliefs that legitimize their agendas, power through intimidation, etc. The only thing that keeps the KKK in check are those who recognized it as a threat and worked to stamp out its influence. The KKK never had as broad a base as militant Islam. The KKK was able to control some local and possibly some state governments during desegregation, but certainly didn't have the resources that many militant islamist groups have.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Again your all to quick to just "throw" chrisitianity in there. Show me where anywhere on the planet they Christians anywhere are suscribing to/and or perpetuating the same evil as militant Islam. And again like the KKK Jerry Falwell might be a bigot and unagreeable, but I don't see him flying planes into buildings amongst a list of other atrocities.
Currently it's not happening but in the past, there was obviously a drive to instill Christian values in the "uncivilized" cultures of the world.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sparhawk
I see a parallel in these rigid theocracies with their daily edicts and the christian coalition movement in the states. Jerry Falwell has more in common with, say, Saudi Arabian culture than he does with normal Americans.

That being said, I don't hold with many Americans fairly casually replacing "Communists" with "Muslims" as the bogeyman of the 21st Century.
Jerry Falwell is far from an Osama Bin Laden. Anyone who doesn't see that is blind.

I don't believe anyone is "casually" filling the void left by the fall of the Soviet Union with radical islam. Not recognizing that there is a considerable number of people in the world with a common belief that western society goes against god and needs to be eliminated is a more egregious offense in my mind. For all your fear/criticism of the religious right and their beliefs, I would think you would be able to equate religious fanatacism wherever it was found. The militant islam belief which encourages and applauds giving your life in the fight against western society would be similar to a religious right belief that it's okay to kill yourself if you take some homosexual "sinners" with you. Both are abhorent to humanity.
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Old 01-14-2004, 05:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Location: VA
Quote:
Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Again your all to quick to just "throw" chrisitianity in there. Show me where anywhere on the planet they Christians anywhere are suscribing to/and or perpetuating the same evil as militant Islam. And again like the KKK Jerry Falwell might be a bigot and unagreeable, but I don't see him flying planes into buildings amongst a list of other atrocities.
I'm not "throwing" christianity in anywhere. I'm talking about a specific movement/organization - The Christian Coalition. Who, in my opinion, have more in common with the repressive culture of Saudi Arabia than they do with normal Christians in this country. And I don't believe I even mentioned anything about 'militant Islam', now did I?

And you're right, Jerry Falwell is a bigot and unagreeable, and I think he would feel right at home in Riyadh.
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Old 01-14-2004, 06:14 AM   #11 (permalink)
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
 
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Quote:
Jerry Falwell is far from an Osama Bin Laden. Anyone who doesn't see that is blind.
Yes, you are right. He is.

But, only because he is in the comfy position he is in. Falwell enjoys wealth, power, and influence in the worlds most powerful nation. He believes he is making progress in advancing the agendas of fundamentalist christian law being imposed in this country. Bin Laden is leader of a fring group who has no powerful government, and sees much of what he deems his religions empire slipping towards the values of the decadent west.

You switch their positions, Make Falwells Christian Coalition a small group that he primarially funds in a nation that ranks in the bottom of the barrel. Then have a secular, but primarially islamic nation (which is by far the most powerful in the world) exert influence and, at least in Jerry's mind, make progress towards converting his region towards the religion and values of Islam....
Falwell would easily be a mirror image of Our Osama.
While Bizarro Osama is a faith leader in his nation who now has the "luxury" of being able to just delegate 'missionary' work around the world and advancing sharia in his nation.
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Old 01-14-2004, 07:18 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Location: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Superbelt
But, only because he is in the comfy position he is in.
Ahh yes, of course. It must be nice to have the power to foresee how someone you probably have never even met would react in various situations.
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Old 01-14-2004, 07:31 AM   #13 (permalink)
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
 
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Ooh I do have that ability, I believe. He's a psuedo-fundamentalist, intolerant man who follows his own manner of christianity to enrich himself rather than the world. The man craves power, and has it. That's the only difference between him and Osama, Jerry has the power.
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Old 01-14-2004, 08:26 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Location: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Superbelt
Ooh I do have that ability, I believe. He's a psuedo-fundamentalist, intolerant man who follows his own manner of christianity to enrich himself rather than the world. The man craves power, and has it. That's the only difference between him and Osama, Jerry has the power.

And I guess this supposed power was bestowed upon him at birth. As far as I recall, he didn't have to blow up the WTC to gain it. As a matter of fact, I haven't heard a whisper of his plots to bring down the "heathens" of Islam around the world. I guess you can see that too, ehh?
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Old 01-14-2004, 08:50 AM   #15 (permalink)
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
 
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Location: Grantville, Pa
Part of the power he commands, that doesn't require violence to achieve came with being a church leader in the most powerful nation in the world.

We did hear about how the "gays and feminists and abortionists and pagans?"

I bet Falwell would kill all of them if given the chance. I really do. He did after all call them all an abomination and the actual reason that the Trade Center was destroyed on 9/11. If he though he could get away with their slaughter to make the world a "better" place, I truly believe he would.
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Old 01-14-2004, 10:11 AM   #16 (permalink)
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How did a thread about radical Islamists turn into a thread about right wing American Christians?

In any event, I agree that radical Islam is a serious threat to many cultures and freedoms.

Anyone who can't/won't recognize this and fight back will be swept away with the tide.

Right now I see too many in America that will be swept away. Unfortunately, if this happens, they will take the rest of us with them.
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Old 01-14-2004, 10:25 AM   #17 (permalink)
42, baby!
 
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Interesting statistic: 75% of all third-generation male (muslim) immigrants get their brides from the original "country of origin" (their forefathers' origin, of course).

Why? Typically, because the girls that grew up here are too "western" in their outlook. The brides they bring in are usually easier to dominate.
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Old 01-14-2004, 05:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Location: Los Angeles
Ooooh no bride domination!

Personally thats a pretty useless argument considering that its still much around the world and hardly limited to Islam - not to mention that it was quite common not all that very long ago in our own histories!
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Old 01-14-2004, 09:25 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell
How did a thread about radical Islamists turn into a thread about right wing American Christians?
Right here! I pulled off a crazy threadjack with a single stolen analogy...and the help of my beloved political zealot brethren.

I did it to fight the constant shit about Islam being evil. Islam is fine. Fundamentalism, radicalism, whatever you want to call it; subverting a religion for the purpose of advancing a political or social agenda is the threat.
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Old 01-14-2004, 09:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Which the Arab/Islamic culture is all about, which the people suscribe too. It isn't about just fundamentalists perpetuating these attacks, its about the mindset and beliefs of the people that consider them martyr's and hereos.
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Old 01-14-2004, 09:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate
 
Location: Los Angeles
Are you Arab? Are you Islamic?

If not I would like to extend my apologies for claiming others are a thing when they aren't.

If you think the minority being reported is the majority, then you yourself have bought into what the terrorists want - to give them the attention they crave for their cause.
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Old 01-14-2004, 10:10 PM   #22 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
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You can keep your heads in the sand for a while boys, but I think hes right.
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Old 01-15-2004, 12:49 AM   #23 (permalink)
42, baby!
 
Dragonlich's Avatar
 
Location: The Netherlands
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeld2.0
Ooooh no bride domination!

Personally thats a pretty useless argument considering that its still much around the world and hardly limited to Islam - not to mention that it was quite common not all that very long ago in our own histories!
It's not the "getting brides from abroad" in general that's the problem. It's the "don't want western girls" that's the problem. They don't want to marry girls from the same ethnic background that grew up here, simply because they're too liberal. It means these people do not want to join the general Dutch culture, and want to stay a seperate group.

OTOH, it leaves more of those exotic cuties for us natives...
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:19 AM   #24 (permalink)
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{sarcasm}Ustwo, your support of Mojo has served its purpose. My head is out of the sand. I see clearly now. {/sarcasm}
The people who consider the terrorists martyrs and heros don't consider them such because of their belief in Allah. If that were so, ALL Muslims would hail the attacks and consider them God's will. As this is clearly NOT the case, I would humbly submit that you are allowing ignorance and prejudice to blind you.
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Old 01-15-2004, 08:16 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I would disagree. I would humbly submit that you are living in a politically correct world where we all hold hands lovingly and cuddle with fuzzy little bunnies. Go to Saudi Arabia, home to the most important shrines in Islam. It is here where 26+ million people are indoctrinated with hate against the west and Israel. It's here where 15 of 17 hijackers are national hereos. Go to Palestine where Palestinian suicide bombers are given a heroes burial. Sudan a country that is in a brutal civil war, a country where 2+ million have died, where christians are today still taken as slaves. Iran a brutal regime claiming to be a religious regime, shiite btw a non-hardline sect like the wahabi's of Saud, kills and arrests dissedents, a country that espouses the belief that America and the culture of the west is that of the "great satan". Afganistan, a country that welcomed a brutal and repressive regime like the taliban, that today they are fighting to bring back. Pakistan again a country filed with some of the most anti-American muslims on the face of the planet, a country that itself is trying to help bring back the taliban. Indonesia another theocratic Islamic nation, the biggest such nation in the world, declared a fatwa of jihad against the west sometime thereafter 9/11 (can't recall if it was in response to afganistan or Iraq). A country that has a great many school of "militant" Islam and Wahab indoctrinating its youth with "Jihad" against the infidels.

BTW I never said that all muslims hail these clowns as heroes or martyrs, all I said was that their cultures and mentalities are detrimmental in the parlence of our time, they fighting to cling on to an outdated,ugly, and vicious way of living.
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Old 01-15-2004, 08:18 AM   #26 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: Within the Woods
Quote:
Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
BTW I never said that all muslims hail these clowns as heroes or martyrs, all I said was that their cultures and mentalities are detrimmental in the parlence of our time, they fighting to cling on to an outdated,ugly, and vicious way of living.
How many arabs/muslims do you know?
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Old 01-15-2004, 08:25 AM   #27 (permalink)
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How many do you know?
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Old 01-15-2004, 08:52 AM   #28 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
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I’m sorry Kadath but you couldn’t be more wrong. We all saw the people dancing in the streets of Egypt and in Palestinian areas after 9/11, that is before their governments/police got them to stop for fear of those images reaching the United States. Arab culture teaches hate, period. This is where you find your ‘ignorance and prejudice’, not in my eyes. I don’t care what the Qur’an SAYS its what people DO that matters. Until the Arab world gets itself out of the 15th century, and has some tolerance and understanding for other cultures they can not expect us to be tolerant and understanding of theirs.

I am not alone in this feeling, and many Arab scholars have the same concerns. Even the UN reports state that the Arab world has fallen behind and is in danger of becoming even more backward. I give you a synopsis of the Arab Human Development Report. This was written by Arabs for the UN, its not some Western think tank, or the like.

Quote:
AHDR 2002 challenged the Arab world to overcome three cardinal obstacles to human development posed by widening gaps in freedom, women’s empowerment and knowledge across the region.

Looking at international, regional and local developments affecting Arab countries since the report was issued confirms that those challenges remain critically pertinent and may have become even graver, especially in the area of freedom. Nowhere is this more apparent than the status of Arab knowledge at the beginning of the 21st century, the theme of this second report. Despite the presence of significant human capital in the region, AHDR 2003 concludes that disabling constraints hamper the acquisition, diffusion and production of knowledge in Arab societies. This human capital, under more promising conditions, could offer a substantial base for an Arab knowledge renaissance.
The Report affirms that knowledge can help the region to expand the scope of human freedoms, enhance the capacity to guarantee those freedoms through good governance and achieve the higher moral human goals of justice and human dignity. It also underlines the importance of knowledge to Arab countries as a powerful driver of economic growth through higher productivity.
Its closing section puts forward a strategic vision for creating knowledge societies in the Arab world based on five pillars: Guaranteeing key freedoms; Disseminating quality education; Embedding science; Shifting towards knowledge based production; and Developing an enlightened Arab knowledge model.
AHDR 2003 makes it clear that, in the Arab civilization, the pursuit of knowledge is prompted by religion, culture, history and the human will to achieve success. Obstructions to this quest are the defective structures created by human beings- social, economic and above all political. Arabs must remove or reform these structures in order to take the place they deserve in the world of knowledge at the beginning of the knowledge millennium."
When you think of who wrote this, and for what body, its message is quite apparent behind the political language.

Now for some quotes from the full report.

Quote:
Limitations imposed by the state
“In most Arab countries,” the Report states, “the media operate in an environment that sharply restricts freedom of
the press and freedom of expression and opinion. Journalists face illegal harassment, intimidation and even physical
threats; censorship is rife and newspapers and television channels are sometimes arbitrarily closed down. Most media institutions are state-owned, particularly
radio and television.”
Quote:
In short, the AHDR 2003 maintains, most Arab countries “place the media under the dominant political authorities
and institutions, and employ media channels for political propaganda and entertainment, at the expense of other
functions and services.”
Quote:
Among the paradoxes of Arab censorship is that the novels
of the author who won the first prize at the largest Arab book
fair in 2000 were banned. In another case, the Report notes,
the novel that won the 2000 prize for excellence, in the
capital of Arab culture for that year, was prevented by the
censor from being distributed in that same capital.
It goes on and on and on, and I’m sure would be very good reading for you, it might help you see past your ignorance and prejudice and understand the problems faced by the Arab world.

Edit: LINK
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Last edited by Ustwo; 01-15-2004 at 09:03 AM..
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Old 01-15-2004, 11:11 AM   #29 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: Within the Woods
Quote:
Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
How many do you know?
I grew up in a 50/50-area, and we had a few hundred people from Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria etc in my school, so quite a few.
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Old 01-15-2004, 11:24 AM   #30 (permalink)
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So they were here in America, in our culture?
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Old 01-15-2004, 12:46 PM   #31 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: Within the Woods
Quote:
Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
So they were here in America, in our culture?
No, in Sweden, Europe.
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Old 01-15-2004, 05:00 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
I don't agree with him really, as I don't view Islam as the great threat ( http://www.islamonline.net/english/i...am/index.shtml )... I don't find it worse than any other religion really.
I agree with your second sentance.

But, any belief system that believes others have no right to have a say is a danger to democracy.

Religion provides a framework for someone to say "I'm right, and anyone who disagrees with me deserves to die." It has been used that way in Europe, with the Pope-kings of the dark ages and the God-Emperors of the romans, and it is being used that way in the middle east right now.

Quote:
Islam : Islamic fundamentalists :: Christianity : KKK

Thank you, West Wing. Well, and the SAT.
Thanks.

Now imagine if the KKK (or an equivilent organization) took over a western democracy, say Germany. Imagine that happend about 50 years ago, and it caused the bloodiest war in human history.

Quote:
Please elaborate. Sure the KKK is a bunch of bigots and worthless human beings, but I don't see them repressing woman, human rights, keeping the slave trade alive, flying planes into buildings, commiting suicide bombings, or being embroiled in the majority of the worlds conflicts.
That's mainly because the KKK is weaker than Islamic Fundies. Don't you think they'd like to have a slave traid, repress women (some of them), etc?

Quote:
Show me where anywhere on the planet they Christians anywhere are suscribing to/and or perpetuating the same evil as militant Islam.
Germany, circa WW2.

Quote:
It's the "don't want western girls" that's the problem. They don't want to marry girls from the same ethnic background that grew up here, simply because they're too liberal. It means these people do not want to join the general Dutch culture, and want to stay a seperate group.
Or it means that it takes time for people to integrate?

Sheesh, http://www.nomarriage.com/ is a bunch of mysogynists who agree with them. Does that make them "un-western"? Maybe. =)
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Old 01-15-2004, 05:06 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yakk
Germany, circa WW2.

If you want to use historical instances, you would have been better off with the Spanish Inquisition (Here, I'll say it for you smart alecks, "No one escapes the Spanish Inquisition!!") than with WW2 Germany.

Hitler's Germany was not Christologically driven, it was driven on a cult worship of Hitler. At worst, some denominations/clerics kept silent about Nazi horrors, while others, like Dietrich Bonhoeffer were shot for their unflinching opposition.


*edited cause I kant spel
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Old 01-15-2004, 05:07 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Hitler's Germany was not a matter of Christianity. It was a matter of insane nationalism and racial superiority. Hitler might've been born a christian, it doesn't mean that he was one when he went nuts. He was into the occult and Norse Mythology. Not to mention the fact that he went just as hard on the Poles who were Catholic as he did on the Jews.
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Old 01-15-2004, 05:12 PM   #35 (permalink)
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The Inquisition is by far better (damn you beat me to the line !) than Germany - as stated above, it was far more racial based than anything. Lieberstram, the Aryan race, etc.
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:01 PM   #36 (permalink)
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The Spanish Inquisition started in 1478. I find this being the 15th century very ironic based on my post.
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Old 01-15-2004, 10:08 PM   #37 (permalink)
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i don't have much to say on this subject as i can believe all men are capable of equally beautiful and horrendous actions..

anyway, this is from a joke list
in case you might think of Iraq as "only" an oil rich nation, ruled by an evil dictator for 30 years, whether it has been supporting terrorists or may not be very important, here are a few important facts regarding the important history and roles that this nation has played down through history....

1. The Garden of Eden was in Iraq. (it sure doesn't look much like Paradise on earth today thanks to Saddam)

2. Mesopotamia which is now Iraq was the cradle of civilization!

3. Noah built the ark in Iraq.

4. The Tower of Babel was in Iraq.

5. Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern Iraq!

6. Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor which is in Iraq.

7. Jacob met Rachel in Iraq.

8. Jonah preached in Nineveh - which is in Iraq.

9. Assyria which is in Iraq conquered the ten tribes of Israel.

10. Amos cried out in Iraq!

11. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the "writing on the wall" in Iraq. (Hey, This One Saddam finally did too!)
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Old 01-15-2004, 11:54 PM   #38 (permalink)
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BTW up here in Minnesota we don't have to many Arabs. We do however have many Somalians which are a perfect example of horrendous Muslim Warlord culture. Thousands of refugee's have flooded this state from Somalia. Being the age of 19 I have no problem with those of the older age, they are hard working and cause me no trouble. I do however have a problem with the kids who have caused both me and my friends nothing but drama.
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Old 01-16-2004, 06:25 AM   #39 (permalink)
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So the only other thing I have to say on this subject is that apparently some people around here are unable to distinguish between the words Muslim and Arab. This is the first time I have used the word "Arab" in this thread. I am not disagreeing that the culture in the Middle East is often one of violence. I am arguing against the idea that the religion is what causes this mindset and the idea that we can lump all Muslims togther as terrorists. That is bigotry. That is ignorance.

Edited for flames. I'm gone.
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Old 01-16-2004, 07:53 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dragonlich
Interesting statistic: 75% of all third-generation male (muslim) immigrants get their brides from the original "country of origin" (their forefathers' origin, of course).

Why? Typically, because the girls that grew up here are too "western" in their outlook. The brides they bring in are usually easier to dominate.
As a Muslim man, I can tell you that this happens more often because the parents demand it than for any other reason, and also because the parents often arrange it themselves, and also because it helps keep immigration flowing (the brides can get citizenship).

In addition, this statistic is highly skewed because most immigrants who come to the West alone are men. Therefore there is a disproportionate amount of men (of their ethnicity) and they must get brides from back home rather than their new country.
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