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Old 01-21-2004, 11:02 AM   #1 (permalink)
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This is going to make the anti-gun crowd go wild

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Quote:
Posted on Wed, Jan. 21, 2004

Miami toddler who shot himself with father's gun is brain-dead
Associated Press

MIAMI - A toddler who shot himself in the head with his father's gun is brain-dead, doctors said.

Doctors at Jackson Memorial Hospital had done everything they could for 3-year-old Travis Jenkins Jr., but the gunshot was more severe than they could repair, said Dr. John Ragheb, chief of pediatric neurosurgery.

"This child's injury passed through a big vein that drains blood from the brain and is essential for life," Ragheb said. "The heart is still beating, but the brain doesn't work anymore."

The child had found the gun in the center console of his father's rental car when the man made a quick visit to a family friend Monday.

Investigators had not decided Tuesday whether the charge the father, 26-year-old Travis Jenkins Sr., who had a weapons permit.
What I want to know, is A) Why did this guy leave his kid alone in the car with a loaded gun, and B) why was the kid not in a car seat? I think those are more important questions that need to be answered.
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Darwin strikes again. Who was it that posted the article of the Jackass imitators on the merry-go-round? That was a good look at what absolutely not to do.
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
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that is so sad, they sould lock that dad up, or give him a chance to blow his own brains out.
It's not about gun control, it's about gun awareness
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The dumbass should have at least locked his gun. I bet it was a revolver
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:18 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Now, both the son and father are brain dead.


I like it when families share.
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Pay attention to what your kids are doing. Bottom line.
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Top ten candidate for Darwin award. He is too stupid to have a pet never mind a child.

What would you tell your wife? How could he live with himself?
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:52 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Technically the child would be up for the Darwin award. In order to get a Darwin award you have to have removed yourself from the gene pool, which the child did. But given the age of the child I think it's a bit insensitive to say that the kid is up for a Darwin award, when clearly the father is really at fault. Since the father is still alive and able to procreate, then there is no basis for a Darwin award.
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Old 01-21-2004, 12:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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*sigh*

I hope the child's mother uses the gun on this guy.

First, perhaps things are different up here in the snowy tundra, but why was there a gun in the car to begin with?

Secondly, why the hell does it take so long to decide whether or not to charge him? Yes, he has a permit, but does that negate the requirement to keep the machine safetied and out of the reach of children?
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Old 01-21-2004, 12:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Another reason to never own children.
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Old 01-21-2004, 12:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm not anti-gun, but I am anti-idiot.

Carelessness costs lives, especially with death-dealing instruments lying about.
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Old 01-21-2004, 12:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Quote:
Originally posted by hrdwareguy
Linky



What I want to know, is A) Why did this guy leave his kid alone in the car with a loaded gun, and B) why was the kid not in a car seat? I think those are more important questions that need to be answered.
Quote:
Originally posted by ratbastid
I'm not anti-gun, but I am anti-idiot.

Carelessness costs lives, especially with death-dealing instruments lying about.
They said it. The guy is a moron and shouldnt have owned a gun in the first place. This is no reason to place restrictions on guns, or even to yell about it. If you want something to yell about, yell about how moronic this guy was.

And ratbastid, guns arent death-dealing instruments, but they certainly have that capability. Like anything, if misused, they can injure or kill you. Just wanted to clarify
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Old 01-21-2004, 01:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by sailor420
And ratbastid, guns arent death-dealing instruments, but they certainly have that capability. Like anything, if misused, they can injure or kill you. Just wanted to clarify
Fair enough. Maybe I'm slightly anti-gun.
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Old 01-21-2004, 02:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by sailor420

And ratbastid, guns arent death-dealing instruments, but they certainly have that capability. Like anything, if misused, they can injure or kill you. Just wanted to clarify
So how do you use a gun properly so it doesn't injure or kill what you are shooting at? Guns are a tool. A tool for killing. The power that they represent mean to me that there should be laws that enforce more responsibility upon their owners.
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Old 01-21-2004, 03:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Ah, I don't need to say anything.
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Old 01-21-2004, 04:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Original King
Now, both the son and father are brain dead.


I like it when families share.
Agreed.
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Old 01-21-2004, 04:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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i heard about this on howard stern this morning and I about gagged! First off who leaves their gun laying loose inside their car? Second--who the hell lets their 3 yr old child alone in the car?!?!!? Fuckin idoit...let them all rot in prison being butt buddies with bubba and the boys
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Old 01-21-2004, 04:06 PM   #18 (permalink)
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That father is a moron and should be shot. He is at fault for a: leaving a loaded gun in the car, b: leaving a toddler in the car with the gun, and c: being a complete moron...I say give the guy life in prison or death. Morons like that dont deserve to be set free for stupidity.
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Old 01-21-2004, 04:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by skier
So how do you use a gun properly so it doesn't injure or kill what you are shooting at? Guns are a tool. A tool for killing. The power that they represent mean to me that there should be laws that enforce more responsibility upon their owners.
Sure, guns were designed to kill. But they dont have to. Most of my guns have never killed anything--I use them to shoot skeet and targets. As for how do you use them properly? Had this man been properly instructed, he would have known: Muzzle Awareness. Trigger Awareness. For those of you that do not own or shoot firearms, this means:

A) Dont point the gun at anything you dont want to shoot. Ever. I dont care if the gun is unloaded, broken, whatever. Never. This also means that the gun should be pointed in the air or at the ground in front of you at all times that you are not actively shooting: read--about to pull the trigger. ALWAYS know EXACTLY what your gun is pointing at.

B) Finger OFF the trigger until you are going to pull it. No excuses.

There are other rules as well: guns unloaded until you are stepping up to the line to shoots, breeches open, safeties on (but never rely on a safety). Most gun clubs will immediately kick you out if you violate ANY of these rules. Properly used, a gun is no more dangerous than a screwdriver.

Guns have the potential to be more dangerous than many other tools. Thats why there are more laws regarding their use. Laws, however, cannot be expected to protect people from their own stupidity.
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Old 01-21-2004, 11:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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To shoot skeets, and targets, that is TARGET PRACTICE. The gun was designed to kill. This is what you are practicing to become good at. I don't have a problem with that, you can practice all you want at becoming accurate with a gun. I think you should look within yourself, however, and look at why you are practicing to shoot. Just because you can use this killing tool for another purpose doesn't change what it is. I can use my screwdriver to open paint can lids. It's main use remains and always will remain to screw in a screw. My second point that you quoted, merely emphasied the need for laws governing the responsibilitiies of the owners of these guns. It's too easy to own a gun, with so little penalty if it is misused in america. It's true that nothing is foolproof, because fools are ingenious at foiling such things. But I believe that there would be much less death and suffering if everyone were required to complete a 13 week training course with both a written and a field test to determine whether one was qualified to own a gun, and understood the repercussions of their actions (or inaction). While it is important that citizens have the freedom to arm themselves, it's more important for them to understand what owning weapon such as a gun means.
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Old 01-22-2004, 12:22 AM   #21 (permalink)
don't ignore this-->
 
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I usually say "knowledge makes a better trigger lock", but what can a toddler know about gun safety? Original King said it better than I could.
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Old 01-22-2004, 12:46 AM   #22 (permalink)
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He was irresponsible in leaving a loaded gun out of his sight.

With a gun, it only takes one stupid mistake to make a tragedy.
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Old 01-22-2004, 02:04 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by sailor420
They said it. The guy is a moron and shouldnt have owned a gun in the first place. This is no reason to place restrictions on guns, or even to yell about it. If you want something to yell about, yell about how moronic this guy was.
Preventing this guy from owning a gun is gun control.

In Norway we have quite liberal weapon laws compared to the rest of Europe. You can get a rifle or shotgun by documenting your need to use the weapon for hunting or competition. You can only get handguns if you're using them for competition. If you have no criminal record, it's easy to get a license. It doesn't prevent morons from obtaining guns, but I think it has a healty filtering effect. And it makes people think if they really need a gun. Fully automatic weapons are illegal for civilians as they cannot be used for hunting nor competition.

I don't want to start a big thread on gun control. I've never quite understood the American way, and if you feel guns should be less restricted than alcohol, by all means, go ahead
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Old 01-22-2004, 02:05 AM   #24 (permalink)
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At least it's less likely his retarded genes will carry on. Perhaps guns are good for something, speeding up natural selection.
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Old 01-22-2004, 07:40 AM   #25 (permalink)
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If you're going to dole out Darwin Awards, please read about them so you know what they are:

<A HREF="http://www.darwinawards.com">Darwin Awards</A>

Darwin Awards are awarded posthumously. Since both father and son are technically alive, sorry - close but no cigar. Besides - the poor kid did nothing any other 3 year-old might not do - all kids are curious about everything at that age. No fault there.

/preserving the sanctity
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Old 01-22-2004, 08:00 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quite frankly, I see no reason to sentence this man to death, or necessarily to jail either.

Many people are capable of making really stupid mistakes, and I personally don't know the reasons behind his having a gun in the car.

I had no sympathy for the woman who was injecting shit into her child, but this guy didn't deliberately cause harm to his child. He "made a quick visit to a family friend", which could mean he was inside the house for two minutes to pick something up. Should he have taken the kid with him? Hell yeah. But maybe he knew he was going to carry something heavy to the car, or thought he'd only be inside for 30 seconds. You don't know and I don't know.

Whatever the case may be, the man just lost his child, his son that was named after him, for the sake of his own negligence. Living with that on his conscience is going to be far worse than anything you can spit out at him at this point.
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Old 01-22-2004, 09:52 AM   #27 (permalink)
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More gun control laws aren't what is needed to prevent this kind of tradgedy. Responsibility is what is called for. When you purchase / carry a gun or any weapon you take responsibility for that weapon. There is nothing wrong with having a loaded gun in his center console as long as it had a lid he is perfectly legal according to FL law with or without a concealed weapons permit. Where he screwed up was leaving it in the presense of an unsupervised child. He should have either taken it with him (either the gun or the child) or if that wasnt convenient just unload the thing and cary the bullets or clip with him (6 bullets or a clip can easily fit in a pants pocket).

I don't think the guy should be handled any more harshly because the child was injured by a gun, but he should get the same penalty as if he left the kid unattended around any other kind of dangerous environment (swimming pool, sharp tool, running vehicle, etc.).
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Old 01-22-2004, 10:12 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Prince
Whatever the case may be, the man just lost his child, his son that was named after him, for the sake of his own negligence. Living with that on his conscience is going to be far worse than anything you can spit out at him at this point.
So true.
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Old 01-22-2004, 11:09 AM   #29 (permalink)
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It doesnt make me wild, it makes me sad.

People like this should not be allowed to own guns, sadly in America the qualifications needed to get a lethal weapon seem pretty light.
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Old 01-22-2004, 02:11 PM   #30 (permalink)
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This is a tragedy, plain and simple. Clearly the fault lies with the father, but not in the way many will think. Had the father taken the time to teach this kid proper firearm safety this could have been prevented. Leaving a loaded pistol within reach of the kid wasn't the most intelligent thing to do, but I can find no fault with the guy. He will have to live with the consequences.

Everyone should let this be a lesson. Do not lock firearms away from children. Instead teach children proper firearms safety. Show children how dangerous firearms can be. Locking fireamrs away from children is the worst thing you can do, it creates an aura of mystery about them. Once you take away the stigma associated with firearms they become boring.

Just my two cents
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Old 01-22-2004, 02:33 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Supermidget, I agree about teaching children proper gun control, but the child was three. At that point, they don't understand what they are doing.
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Old 01-22-2004, 02:46 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I recieved my first firearm when I was three. I had access to it and ammunition at any time I wished. I knew better than to touch it without permission. It is possible to teach a kid that young safe firearm handling. However, it is not very PC anymore...
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Old 01-22-2004, 03:09 PM   #33 (permalink)
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It's just another proof that people are too stupid to have guns. I'll go with Dogbert on this one: a majority of the people are morons, and I'd rather not see them carrying anything more dangerous than dental floss.
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Old 01-22-2004, 07:32 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Guns also equal deterrance, just like the cold war.
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Old 01-22-2004, 10:43 PM   #35 (permalink)
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The child shouldn't have been left alone in the car anyway. The father is a moron, and guns suck nuts.
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Old 01-22-2004, 11:30 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: This is going to make the anti-gun crowd go wild

Quote:
Originally posted by hrdwareguy B) why was the kid not in a car seat?
A kid can get out of anything (except Duck Tape) really quickly.
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Old 01-22-2004, 11:37 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by gal
I've never quite understood the American way, and if you feel guns should be less restricted than alcohol, by all means, go ahead

Pardon me?

Since when are guns in America less restricted than alcohol?

Last time I checked, I could by beer in the Grocery store and they didn't even run my ID for a criminal record.
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Old 01-23-2004, 12:08 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I am not pro or anti gun. I am pro choice. If you want a gun, great. If you don't want a gun, great. The responsible should not be held accountable for the irresponsible.

A little OT, but not by much. Once I asked a friend ( a cop ) why they didn't make a law to outlaw stupid people. He said for 1) jails are too crowded already, and 2) he didn't want to have the fill out the paperwork from shooting that many offenders.
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Old 01-23-2004, 01:00 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell
Pardon me?

Since when are guns in America less restricted than alcohol?

Last time I checked, I could by beer in the Grocery store and they didn't even run my ID for a criminal record.
I wasn't really serious.. And I was only thinking about the legal age for liqour vs age limit for buying guns.
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Old 01-23-2004, 12:54 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Location: Canada eh?
Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell
He was irresponsible in leaving a loaded gun out of his sight.

With a gun, it only takes one stupid mistake to make a tragedy.
This is at least three stupid mistakes:
1) gun was not locked.
2) gun was not secured away from children
3) toddler left alone in vehicle

and possibly 4) gun stored loaded.
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