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Old 01-29-2004, 12:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
mml
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Is Cheney on the way out?

I think this would be interesting. Who else would you like to see on the ticket with Bush?




http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4065772




Will Giuliani replace Cheney in ’04?


Does Rudy Giuliani have his sights set on the vice-presidency?
By Jeannette Walls with Ashley Pearson
MSNBC
Updated: 2:56 a.m. ET Jan. 27, 2004Will there be a Bush/Giuliani ticket in '04?

A well-placed source says that the president will “most likely” drop Dick Cheney from his re-election ticket and his first choice for a replacement is former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani.

“The issue of Cheney’s health will probably be given as the reason,” says the insider. “There’s a short list of possible replacements, and Rudy is at the top of the list.”

The source adds that the selection of the former New York mayor may be overridden by Bush advisors from the far right. “Giuliani has been pro-choice, pro-gay rights, and is pretty liberal on some other social issues, but the thinking is that he might broaden Bush’s appeal.”

If, however, Giuliani gets bumped from the ticket, says the source, “expect him to get a prime assignment in Washington as an consolation prize.”

Bush’s rep didn’t return calls, and a spokeswoman for Giuliani said, “Rudy Giuliani has been out in Iowa and New Hampshire talking about the incredible accomplishments of Vice President Dick Cheney with George Bush and working very hard to get them both re-elected.”
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Old 01-29-2004, 02:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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you dont boot your vp


this wont happen
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Old 01-29-2004, 03:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dragon2fire
you dont boot your vp


this wont happen

Actually, it has happened. I know that FDR dropped Henry A. Wallace in 1944 and brought in Truman. I am not sure if there are any other examples.
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Old 01-29-2004, 03:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I would honestly like to see Colin Powell, Conzolena (sp?) Rice, or Rumsfeld up there.

I respect all three of those people greatly. I just hope it wouldnt be Ashcroft...
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Old 01-29-2004, 07:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I wouldn't be surprised. As of a few weeks ago cheney was still trying to claim an iraq-al qaeda link even after his boss had gone on the record saying that there wasn't. Maybe undermining the prez's message isn't the best way to stay on the ticket.
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Old 01-29-2004, 07:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seaver
I would honestly like to see Colin Powell, Conzolena (sp?) Rice, or Rumsfeld up there.

I respect all three of those people greatly. I just hope it wouldnt be Ashcroft...
I'm thinking Powell is out, for the sake of his own future career (at least thats the vibe I get). Ashcroft will probably stay, Appeals to the conservative vote. Rummy is solid as far as his position is concerned... him and Wolfowitz make a solid duo. I would really like to see Guiliani run with Dubya, he is a well respected man and he could help G.W. better this country. Condi wouldn't be that bad either, she has to be a favorite for the spot if Cheney is out.
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Old 01-29-2004, 07:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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It's no secret that Powell doesn't play well with the other neo-cons. He was always the square peg in the round hole. Powell is a man of honour, while Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeldt, Ashcroft et al are weasels. (No offense to the furry little critters who live in the ground.)

While Guiliani would definitely help Shrub, I would be surprised if Guiliani would accept such an offering. Dunno, could be wrong. Just don't see Rudi wanting to play second fiddle to Shrub.
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Old 01-29-2004, 07:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Mitt Romney would be good, it would project him into the limelight for 2008. The only problem is that he hasnt been Governor of Massachusetts very long. But he did a good job at the Olympics.
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Old 01-29-2004, 07:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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While thinking about, I wonder if Powell is in the spotlight. He is very well respected along both sides of the spectrum, and he could actually do some good. Not to mention a Dubya Powell ticket would be very solid as far as getting swing voters/military votes/moderate dems. All of this is ofcourse due to the reason that I seem to remember Guliani saying he doesn't care much for politics these days let alone national politics.
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Old 01-29-2004, 10:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Dont dog Rumsfeld...

A friend of mine was in the Pentagon breifing Rumsfeld when the aircraft hit on 9/11. Rumsfeld injured his leg in the shrapnel (along with my friend), instead of flee'ing he charged into the fire and started pulling the injured/dead out of the blaze. It was only until the brass physically forced him to stop and allow the military men to do it when he stopped. Not only that, but he didnt turn it into a political thing, hell very few people ever knew that, but if you look at the videos he IS in crutches in the days following.

For this I'd be willing to follow this guy to the gates of hell.
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Old 01-29-2004, 11:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Cheney will leave the ticket if it becomes necessary to ensure reelection. Although it's a Democratic talking point, there's some truth the the assertion that most everything the administration does is politically motivated. The only thing is, Cheney is perhaps the most powerful and influential VP ever. Will he leave, and will he be allowed to leave? Make no mistake; a Bush-Giuliani ticket would be stronger than a Bush-Cheney ticket, and Bush is very beatable this fall (his reelect has been below 50% on a regular basis). No SOTU bounce. He loses in a national poll against Kerry (keeping in mind the fact that Bush hasn't campaigned against him yet).

For those of you speculating about Powell, if you recall, Powell has chosen to step down after the first Bush term. I suspect that he has little interest in taking on a larger role in the administration. There's speculation about who might replace him, but I have heard that Condi Rice might do it.

So who goes for VP? Giuliani can't deliver NY, but he's influential with moderates, has 9/11 cred, is viewed as being pretty tough, and has been actively campaigning for Bush. In spite of his support for some liberal policies, I suspect that the hardcore republican base likes him. He also brings a lot of star power to the ticket.

I can't think of enough good things to say about it from a republican standpoint. As a Democrat, I can't say that I welcome it. I can find satisfaction in the fact that Bush is an objectively bad president, and that the record he has to run on isn't spectacular.
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Old 01-30-2004, 05:46 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I would say Cheney is a non-event. It really doesn't matter if he's there or someone else is at this point. I would really like to see the end of John Ashcroft. That would create a lot more happy vibes than anything the VP, whoever he is could stir up. I would love to see Colin Powell move up - not sure that the job he is doing now is not actually more important than anything he could accomplish as VP but I'd love to see him on the next rung of the political ladder.
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Old 01-30-2004, 10:44 AM   #13 (permalink)
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the best example you can come up with was a three trem pres over fifty years ago


give me a recent example


or for that matter a two term president
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Old 01-30-2004, 10:47 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dragon2fire
the best example you can come up with was a three trem pres over fifty years ago


give me a recent example


or for that matter a two term president
??? Are ya' lost or sumpthin'???
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:17 AM   #15 (permalink)
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LD, Dragon2fire was referring to an earlier post by me. He made the blanket statement that you don't drop your v.p. I pointed out that FDR did, and he apparently doesn't think that was such a stong point. Fair enough, except for the fact that several news agencies(reputable ones-if there are in fact reputable news agencies) have reported this rumor - yes rumor. However, given the Vice-President's less than top-notch ticker and the fact that he can be a controversial figure (particularly with his ties to Halliburton) I can guarantee that it has been discussed and is being discussed, problably with him in the room. He is not an idiot and neither are Mr. Rove, Ed Gillespie and President Bush.

Now, I can't imagine Powell wanting the spot, but he would be a good choice. I don't think Condi Rice is the right choice, but I think her day may come. The one option I am hearing from some friends at the RNC is to bring up Tom Ridge and slide Rudy G into the Homeland Security spot.
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:21 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I think Rice definitely has possibilities - not sure about Ridge - I don't think he has much respect outside of a 100 mile radius of DC.
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:25 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dragon2fire
the best example you can come up with was a three trem pres over fifty years ago


give me a recent example


or for that matter a two term president
Actually, FOUR TERM president.
FDR was elected to four terms, and died during his last. He was succeeded by VP Truman, who then of course, won his own terms to office.
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Old 01-30-2004, 12:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
mml
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Originally posted by Superbelt
Actually, FOUR TERM president.
FDR was elected to four terms, and died during his last. He was succeeded by VP Truman, who then of course, won his own terms to office.
Superbelt, thank you for making that clarification, I meant to mention it in my last post, but forgot.
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Old 01-30-2004, 05:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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This example is older but still matters.

Abraham Lincoln dropped Hannibal Hamlin from his ticket in 1864 and replaced him with Andrew Johnson, who was actually a Democrat, but was the only southern senator to stay loyal, and was supposed to help win votes in the border states.

Also, Thomas Jefferson "changed" VPs in 1804, but that was because before then the 2nd place guy in the presidential race was named the VP, and starting that year, the VP became a seperate race.

Generally, Presidents don't change VPs without a damn good reason, because by keeping the same important officers, he makes the impression that nothing will change, which is the impression he wants to make to keep the supporters voting for him.

I think that unless they really think his health is an issue, there will be four more years of Dick Cheney jokes.
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Old 01-31-2004, 05:56 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seaver
Dont dog Rumsfeld...

A friend of mine was in the Pentagon breifing Rumsfeld when the aircraft hit on 9/11. Rumsfeld injured his leg in the shrapnel (along with my friend), instead of flee'ing he charged into the fire and started pulling the injured/dead out of the blaze. It was only until the brass physically forced him to stop and allow the military men to do it when he stopped. Not only that, but he didnt turn it into a political thing, hell very few people ever knew that, but if you look at the videos he IS in crutches in the days following.

For this I'd be willing to follow this guy to the gates of hell.
Really?

In ww2 Hitler they tried to blow up hitler and he helped remove the wounded.

Would you follow him blindly just because he played ambulance attendant?
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Old 01-31-2004, 09:06 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Well lets see... Rumsfeld isn't Hitler. He is also 70 years old. You are trolling, very poorly at that.
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Old 01-31-2004, 12:18 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Wow... simply... wow.

For the same manner I could say that Hitler took credit for the economic boom Germany had, just like Clinton.

Please, dont spew crap with no substance.
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Old 01-31-2004, 12:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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One more violation of the law (Godwin's) and this thread is history.
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Old 02-02-2004, 01:33 AM   #24 (permalink)
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my bad on the four term thing although that stregthens my point even more


as for the cheny on the way out thing


i will belive it when i see it
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Old 02-02-2004, 12:19 PM   #25 (permalink)
mml
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Quote:
Originally posted by dragon2fire



as for the cheny on the way out thing


i will belive it when i see it
I actually tend to agree with you, but I thought it might be interesting to see who people would want to replace him. I went back through the history of the Vice-Presidency, and there have been very few VPs replaced and most of the replacements are due to deaths.

As far as Rumsfeld getting the V.P. spot, I think that would be a huge stretch. I don't think he wants it and I know the RNC doesn't want him as a leading contender in 2008.
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Old 02-02-2004, 05:22 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I'd like to see J.C. Watts as Bush's running mate, he's got a good head on his shoulders and he would bring some good national appeal to the ticket.
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