Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Politics


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-04-2004, 12:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
Is this the true face of the "Pro Life" campaign??

I wasnt sure whether this belonged in sexuality or here, but on the basis that rape is nothing to do with sex, and the implications are political, I chose here.

I have to say, this article astonished me - if it was from Afghanistan I might have at least not been as shocked... I can understand (although I dont personally agree with ) some of what the pro life campaign is about, but to act like this is so incredibly, so unbelievably heartless...

I can only say that I hope I speak for most people here in hoping for a long custodial sentence for the pharmicist involved. I am not sure that I would be capable of being just with such an offender, his crime makes me so angry - but prison time is the only option in my opinion, as both a punishment and a deterrent.

(And despite anything else, this is a terrible own goal for people who are against widely available abortion and birth control)

I understand that this can be an emotive issue, for both sides of the debate, and I apologise if I am too emotional about it, I just find it beyond belief...

LINK


Quote:

Texas Pharmacist Refuses Pill for Rape Victim
Tue Feb 3, 6:08 PM ET Add Health - Reuters to My Yahoo!


DALLAS (Reuters) - A Texas pharmacist was disciplined for refusing to fill the prescription of a rape victim seeking a morning-after pregnancy-prevention pill, the pharmacy chain that employed the man said on Tuesday.

Eckerd Corp. said the pharmacist considered it a violation of morals to give a rape victim, with a valid prescription, a pill that would prevent her from getting pregnant due to the sexual assault.

The incident took place on Jan. 23 at an Eckerd drug store in the Dallas suburb of Denton.

Eckerd spokeswoman Joan Gallagher said she could not give details of the disciplinary actions, but that the pharmacist had violated company policy.


"A pharmacist is obliged to fill a prescription if it is a valid, legal prescription," she said. "We do not make exceptions for any moral, religious or ethical concerns with regard to filling the prescription."

Florida-based Eckerd is owned by Texas-based retailer J.C. Penney Co..

Protesters, carrying signs reading "Got Raped? Let someone else help you" and "Rape violates my morals," have been picketing the store this week.

Kathryn Allen, a spokeswoman for Planned Parenthood (news - web sites) of North Texas, said the situation could have been avoided if hospitals in the state mandated emergency contraception in sexual assault cases. Other states stipulate that hospitals must make emergency contraception available to victims of sexual assault, but Texas does not.

"What this pharmacist did was truly outrageous. It forces the woman to relive the assault," said Allen, adding that the prescription in question is essentially a high dose of birth control pills that prevents pregnancy.

The rape victim was able to have her prescription filled at another pharmacy in the area, they said.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 12:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
I'd say it's quite a simple issue- the pharmacist shouldn't be allowed to practice. Not forever, I suppose, but a definite suspension wihout pay is in order. What's next- no medicinal marijuana? No selling of condoms?
Tomservo is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 12:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
Sarge of Blood Gulch Red Outpost Number One
 
archer2371's Avatar
 
Location: On the front lines against our very enemy
I draw the line at not helping rape victims. I believe there should be no abortion except for cases of rape, or in cases where there is endangerement of the mother, or other extreme cases. This is just, I can't believe it, I'm just too shocked for words at what type of crap this is.
__________________
"This ain't no Ice Cream Social!"

"Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it."

"I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."
archer2371 is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 01:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
Modern Man
 
Location: West Michigan
Jailed? No.
License reviewed, suspended and/or revoked. Definitely. It was a legal prescription he should have filled it.
__________________
Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul
I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold.
-Son House, Death Letter Blues
Conclamo Ludus is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 01:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
Loves my girl in thongs
 
arch13's Avatar
 
Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada
His personal beliefs are irrelevant and obviously incombatible with his choosen proffesion.
His liscence should be pulled and he should be blacklisted from working in the industry.
His job was to fill prescriptions, and no one elected him to be a judge of character or morality.
His personal opinions are not relenvent to doing the job he was paid to do and he should be able to do his job without a problem. Since he obviously can't and cannot see for himself that he his incapable of performing his duties, the board governing pharmasists should make sure he cannot work in that feild anymore so that he is not a danger to others as he obviously was.

I cannot explain how angry i was when i read this this morning.
__________________
Seen on an employer evaluation:

"The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead"
____________________________
Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11.
-Nanofever
arch13 is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 03:40 PM   #6 (permalink)
Junkie
 
filtherton's Avatar
 
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
How is this guy even a pharmacist if he has moral objections to doing his job correctly?
filtherton is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 04:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
Walking is Still Honest
 
FoolThemAll's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Rape is a nonsense exception. Emotional anguish is not a sufficient justification for killing another human being, no matter how severe. Never mind how questionable it is to think that abortion would have a significant impact on said anguish.

It should be legal for one to refuse to provide such 'treatment'. Having said that, Eckerd Corp was certainly entitled to discipline or fire this man.
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.
FoolThemAll is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 05:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
Junkie
 
filtherton's Avatar
 
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
In some ways it is adding insult to injury. Not only would someone have to endure being raped by some asshole, they would also have to endure raising said asshole's bastard child concieved by way of sex crime. Whether it is murder at all depends on where life begins, which is a debate for another thread.
filtherton is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 05:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
Walking is Still Honest
 
FoolThemAll's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Well, let's simplify.

If it's a human being we're talking about, then rape is a nonsensical exception.

If it's just a clump of cells we're talking about, then rape is a nonsensical and unneeded exception. No justification would be necessary.
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.
FoolThemAll is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 06:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
Loves my girl in thongs
 
arch13's Avatar
 
Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by FoolThemAll
Well, let's simplify.

If it's a human being we're talking about, then rape is a nonsensical exception.

If it's just a clump of cells we're talking about, then rape is a nonsensical and unneeded exception. No justification would be necessary.
Re-read this a couple times and you'll realize it makes no sense.

Avoiding the moral argument, the law is the law. And the law of the land is that the 72 hour pill has been approved for use in this country. He is expected to follow the law, and the law is that no person shall be held from seeking a prescription filled who has been legally authorized to seek a prescription by a doctor.
If i was a doctor and i denied you treatment because you where white and i disliked whites, i would be disbarred. he denied a woman treatment as a medical worker (as pharmasists are classified) and thus there is no difference from my example as both are discrimination.
As a medical worker he is expected to check his personal opinions at the door when he is dealing with the health and well being of others. Any medical proffesional who cannot do that presents a possable risk to patients and should be removed.



And as for my opinion since you brought it up,
It's just a clump of identical cells similar to cancer for the first trimester. It has no conciousness. By third trimster i could view it as a living being, but it is not anything 72 hours or even two months. Sorry.
What your arguing for is the possability that something may exist given sufficient time, not that something currently exists that can be killed.

{mods, if my last part is a thread jack, please delete}
__________________
Seen on an employer evaluation:

"The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead"
____________________________
Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11.
-Nanofever
arch13 is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 06:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
Tilted
 
milkyp's Avatar
 
Location: Orlando, FL
So, does this mean that he would give that pill to non rape victims?

that makes no sense at all...definitely should not be allowed to be a pharmicist anymore, but jail time would just be completely ridiculous. he is not obligated by law to give her what she wanted, although its agreed that he was an asshole prick for not doing it.
milkyp is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 06:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
Walking is Still Honest
 
FoolThemAll's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally posted by arch13
Re-read this a couple times and you'll realize it makes no sense.
Done. Prediction false.

Quote:
Avoiding the moral argument, the law is the law. And the law of the land is that the 72 hour pill has been approved for use in this country. He is expected to follow the law, and the law is that no person shall be held from seeking a prescription filled who has been legally authorized to seek a prescription by a doctor.
The law is wrong in this situation. One has the right to seek out those who sell the wanted prescription. One does not have the right to force any person to sell such a product.

Quote:
If i was a doctor and i denied you treatment because you where white and i disliked whites, i would be disbarred. he denied a woman treatment as a medical worker (as pharmasists are classified) and thus there is no difference from my example as both are discrimination.
Except that the refusal had nothing to do with the patient's habits and everything to do with the effects of the drug. There's no bigotry here.

Quote:
As a medical worker he is expected to check his personal opinions at the door when he is dealing with the health and well being of others. Any medical proffesional who cannot do that presents a possable risk to patients and should be removed.
Sure. And I would be ignoring the health and well-being of others if I dispensed that drug.
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.
FoolThemAll is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 06:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
Walking is Still Honest
 
FoolThemAll's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally posted by milkyp
So, does this mean that he would give that pill to non rape victims?
If he would, then I'm just as confused. My understanding is that he would refuse the pill to anyone.
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.
FoolThemAll is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 07:40 PM   #14 (permalink)
Junkie
 
It is a pharmasists job to sell the drugs that a person in prescribed by a doctor. It is not a pharmasists job to decide if a prescription is right or wrong. If he wanted to control what people were prescribed he should have become a doctor. I doubt he legally did anything wrong but within his buisness he definatly did something wrong and should be fired for it.

If a general refused to obey the president on an order that was within reason (legal bounds) and the general did not follow the order what do you think would happen to the general?

There is a chain of command; a way things work. If you agree to be part of that chain you better be ready to do what your told to do.
Rekna is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 07:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
Walking is Still Honest
 
FoolThemAll's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
1. I have no problem with his being fired.

2. There's no legal military action that is counter to the purpose of the military. This is a legal medical action that is counter to the purpose of the medical field. "First, do no harm."
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.
FoolThemAll is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 08:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
Paq
Junkie
 
Paq's Avatar
 
Location: South Carolina
that is for doctors, not pharmacists and if he refuses, tehy should give her a prescription from another pharmacist, unless he was the only one there.

even so, she should be able to get it elswhere
__________________
Live.

Chris
Paq is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 08:53 PM   #17 (permalink)
Junkie
 
filtherton's Avatar
 
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
That depends on your definition of harm. If by helping someone not have the bastard child of a sex criminal you mean harm, well, i just find that interesting.
filtherton is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 09:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
Walking is Still Honest
 
FoolThemAll's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally posted by filtherton
That depends on your definition of harm. If by helping someone not have the bastard child of a sex criminal you mean harm, well, i just find that interesting.
Please.

Quote:
Originally posted by Paq
that is for doctors, not pharmacists
Touche. Nevertheless, pharmacists shouldn't be handing out drugs that are intended to kill human life. I assume that we agree on this, but not on whether an abortion pill does this.
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.
FoolThemAll is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 09:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
Insane
 
Quote:
Originally posted by archer2371
I draw the line at not helping rape victims. I believe there should be no abortion except for cases of rape, or in cases where there is endangerement of the mother, or other extreme cases. This is just, I can't believe it, I'm just too shocked for words at what type of crap this is.
Quote:
Originally posted by FoolThemAll
Rape is a nonsense exception. Emotional anguish is not a sufficient justification for killing another human being, no matter how severe. Never mind how questionable it is to think that abortion would have a significant impact on said anguish.

It should be legal for one to refuse to provide such 'treatment'. Having said that, Eckerd Corp was certainly entitled to discipline or fire this man.
Why aren't people getting this: THE MORNING AFTER PILL IS NOT AN ABORTION PILL. It is just a higher dosage of the typical birth control pill. In other words, it prevents ovulation. There is an incredibly small chance that it would actually prevent implantation, which could be seen as abortive, however there are many other drugs not even related to birth control that can have this effect. So if anti-MAP pill people aren't against regular birth control and all drugs that could just as minutely have a chance of preventing implantation, then their argument does not hold up.

The "Pro-Life" opposition to the MAP pill makes me vomit. If this pill were prescription free, the number of abortions in the US would drop significantly. Isn't that what these people want? Of course it isn't. They are really "Pro-Telling-you-what-to-do" and "Pro-Consequences". I sincerely hope this pharmacist never stands behind a counter again. Thank you religious zealots for making the world a better place.
Anomaly_ is offline  
Old 02-04-2004, 11:31 PM   #20 (permalink)
Loves my girl in thongs
 
arch13's Avatar
 
Location: North of Mexico, South of Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by arch13
His personal beliefs are irrelevant and obviously incombatible with his choosen proffesion.
Pay very close attention to that statment Foolthemall.
Surely we can agree that regardless of his personal belief, as a representative of the company he works for he is employed to dispense the drugs the company has decided to sell regardless of what he may personaly believe. If he doesn;t like that, he should open his own pharmacy. On someone elses dime, his personal opinions are not wanted or relavent and should not affect how he performs his job when he's being payed to do it.
Surely we can also agree that while we may disagree on if the law is right, that is the job of our court system, not us or him to decide. The courts are there to represent the will of the majority's beliefs in such matters and the morality and nature of birth control and womens choice is something for that venue, not his personal pulpet.


Also, from a scientific point of view, Anomaly_ is correct. the 72hr pill prevents ovulation, and if ovulation has not occured, then there is no clump of cells for us to argue semantics about. Are you arguing that we should not prevent ovulation and the chance that brings at insemination? Becuase then you are arguing that birth control is wrong, not abortion.
If ovulation is prevented, then nothing ever existed.
__________________
Seen on an employer evaluation:

"The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead"
____________________________
Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11.
-Nanofever
arch13 is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 03:06 AM   #21 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: Within the Woods
Quote:
Originally posted by Anomaly_
If this pill were prescription free, the number of abortions in the US would drop significantly. I
Wow, you learn something new every day. I was wondering why you were talking about prescriptions.

In Sweden the MAP is free if you go to a hospital/see a doctor and costs $10 at a pharmacy (state owned monopoly). No need for a prescription.

Anyway, that guy didn't do his job, so he deserved to be fired.
__________________
There seem to be countless rituals and cultural beliefs designed to alleviate their fear of a simple biological truth - all organisms eventually perish.

Mehoni is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 06:33 AM   #22 (permalink)
Muffled
 
Kadath's Avatar
 
Location: Camazotz
Quote:
Originally posted by FoolThemAll
The law is wrong in this situation. One has the right to seek out those who sell the wanted prescription. One does not have the right to force any person to sell such a product.
The man is free not to work as a pharmacist, where he KNOWS he might be asked to sell such a product. It's like a pacifist entering the armed forces and complaining when they have to shoot someone. We, the people, don't get to decide when "the law is wrong." You can't pick and choose.
__________________
it's quiet in here
Kadath is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 07:24 AM   #23 (permalink)
Walking is Still Honest
 
FoolThemAll's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally posted by Anomaly_
So if anti-MAP pill people aren't against regular birth control and all drugs that could just as minutely have a chance of preventing implantation, then their argument does not hold up.
I am.

Quote:
[/b]The "Pro-Life" opposition to the MAP pill makes me vomit. If this pill were prescription free, the number of abortions in the US would drop significantly. Isn't that what these people want? Of course it isn't. They are really "Pro-Telling-you-what-to-do" and "Pro-Consequences".[/B]
The number of intentional deaths would not drop significantly. I'm pro-people-having-the-right-to-life-as-long-as-there-is-no-justification-for-taking-it-away. And I wouldn't call for legal changes if my position were based solely on religious beliefs.

Quote:
Pay very close attention to that statment Foolthemall.
The current law is incompatible with his chosen profession. Should Christian hospitals be shut down for not providing abortions?

Quote:
Surely we can also agree that while we may disagree on if the law is right, that is the job of our court system, not us or him to decide.
He decided not to give her an item. She had no right to this item. (edit: That's not to say that she had no right to attempt to obtain it.) She had no need for this item. The business can certainly fire him for refusing to sell one of the company products, but he violated no rights.

Quote:
the 72hr pill prevents ovulation, and if ovulation has not occured, then there is no clump of cells for us to argue semantics about.
Perhaps I made a mistake here. It's referred to in the article as the morning-after pregnancy-prevention pill. The woman sought this drug after the rape occured. I assumed that this meant that conception had already occured and implantation was to be prevented, because my understanding is that pregnancy begins with implantation and not conception.

Anomaly, can you give me a source to support the claim that the chance of prevention of implantation is "incredibly small"? I'm looking for a figure.
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.
FoolThemAll is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 08:41 AM   #24 (permalink)
Muffled
 
Kadath's Avatar
 
Location: Camazotz
Quote:
Originally posted by FoolThemAll
The number of intentional deaths would not drop significantly. I'm pro-people-having-the-right-to-life-as-long-as-there-is-no-justification-for-taking-it-away. And I wouldn't call for legal changes if my position were based solely on religious beliefs.
Can I ask what they are based on, if not solely on religious beliefs?
Quote:
Originally posted by FoolThemAll

The current law is incompatible with his chosen profession. Should Christian hospitals be shut down for not providing abortions?
I won't deny that's a well-argued point. I'll ask in rebuttal should pharmacies then get to decide which drugs they want to dispense? Should a pharmacist who feels ADHD is over-diagnosed be allowed to refuse Ritalin prescriptions? What about a Catholic pharmacist? Can he refuse to sell condoms?

Quote:
Originally posted by FoolThemAll

He decided not to give her an item. She had no right to this item. (edit: That's not to say that she had no right to attempt to obtain it.) She had no need for this item. The business can certainly fire him for refusing to sell one of the company products, but he violated no rights.
I guess the problem here is I don't feel the pharmacist has the right to make the decision, nor do you. She had no right to this item? I don't really understand the distinction between the right to have it and the right to try to obtain it.
__________________
it's quiet in here
Kadath is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 08:56 AM   #25 (permalink)
Cracking the Whip
 
Lebell's Avatar
 
Location: Sexymama's arms...
Quote:
Originally posted by FoolThemAll
Perhaps I made a mistake here. It's referred to in the article as the morning-after pregnancy-prevention pill. The woman sought this drug after the rape occured. I assumed that this meant that conception had already occured and implantation was to be prevented, because my understanding is that pregnancy begins with implantation and not conception.

Just to clarify:

Prevention of ovulation is the primary way the "Morning After Pill" works.

Prevention of implantation (if fertilization has occured) is a secondary way.


For my own part, I think this man is an ass and deserves to be fired, if he already hasn't been.
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!
Lebell is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 09:05 AM   #26 (permalink)
Walking is Still Honest
 
FoolThemAll's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally posted by Kadath
Can I ask what they are based on, if not solely on religious beliefs?
The right to life, and a belief that all human beings, regardless of stage of development, are deserving of this right.

[quote][/b]I won't deny that's a well-argued point. I'll ask in rebuttal should pharmacies then get to decide which drugs they want to dispense? Should a pharmacist who feels ADHD is over-diagnosed be allowed to refuse Ritalin prescriptions? What about a Catholic pharmacist? Can he refuse to sell condoms?[/b][quote]

Yeah. It's entirely up to the owner of any given store what he/she will sell in their store (barring illegal items), and a pharmacy should be treated no differently.

Quote:
She had no right to this item? I don't really understand the distinction between the right to have it and the right to try to obtain it.
The former implies that one need not do anything other than exist in order to deserve possession of it. And that's not true in this case. Either she makes the product or provides the service for herself (the infeasible option), or she provides compensation to someone who voluntarily provides the product/service.

Now, if an employee doesn't carry out the wishes of the employer in this case, and the wishes are legal, then that's a legitimate reason for job termination. And the employee will have to seek out an employer without those wishes. (No one has the right to employment, either.)
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.
FoolThemAll is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 09:08 AM   #27 (permalink)
Walking is Still Honest
 
FoolThemAll's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell
Just to clarify:

Prevention of ovulation is the primary way the "Morning After Pill" works.

Prevention of implantation (if fertilization has occured) is a secondary way.


For my own part, I think this man is an ass and deserves to be fired, if he already hasn't been.
Thanks. Now it's just a matter of whether the secondary way's chance of taking place is negligible or not. If negligible, I may change my mind on this. But that's not the sense I get from reports on this drug.
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.
FoolThemAll is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 09:14 AM   #28 (permalink)
Upright
 
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Ok, the question so far:

1) Is the MAP equivalent to abortion or contraception?

2) Does a pharmacist have the right/duty to second guess a doctor?

3) Does an employee have the right/duty to apply their own value set in place of their employers?

4) If the answer to (3) is no (or, I guess, even if the answer is yes), then what is an appropriate punishment for doing so?

The science says the answer to (1) is that it is contraception. If you're against contraception, then you are against the MAP. If you are against abortion, the MAP is irrevalent to you.

I argue that if the answer to (2) is yes, then we are all in a great deal of trouble indeed.

I have no trouble imagining a pharmacist thinking asthma is psychosomatic, and denying a Ventalin prescription. The patient gets nervous about this, and goes into an asthma attack and dies. I am sure other readers of this can imagine variations on the theme.

I also argue the answer to (3) is yes, but that employee must do so publicly and suffer the consequences. Sometimes the only employer in town is the local saw mill or mine or auto plant, and the fact of this world is that we must make money to support ourselves and our families.

We are obligated to follow our own sense of right and wrong (and for many of us, following the laws of the land in the absence of compelling reasons to the contrary is a very strong "right") at all times and all circumstances. We choose to comply and continue our employment, or we choose to conflict and either win the dispute or lose our employment.

I know my answers seem to contradict each other; sadly, the older I get, the more complicated and contradictory the world seems to get.

Regards,
Candide.
Candide is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 09:37 AM   #29 (permalink)
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
 
Bill O'Rights's Avatar
 
Location: In the dust of the archives
Quote:
Originally posted by arch13
His personal beliefs are irrelevant and obviously incombatible with his choosen proffesion.
His liscence should be pulled and he should be blacklisted from working in the industry.
His job was to fill prescriptions, and no one elected him to be a judge of character or morality.
His personal opinions are not relenvent to doing the job he was paid to do and he should be able to do his job without a problem. Since he obviously can't and cannot see for himself that he his incapable of performing his duties, the board governing pharmasists should make sure he cannot work in that feild anymore so that he is not a danger to others as he obviously was.

I cannot explain how angry i was when i read this this morning.
This sums up my feelings, reactions and opinions quite well. Thank you, arch13, I couldn't have, and probably wouldn't have, phrased this any better than you have. I might have spelled liscence "license", though. J.K. Good job.
__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.
Bill O'Rights is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 11:01 AM   #30 (permalink)
Banned
 
Quote:
How is this guy even a pharmacist if he has moral objections to doing his job correctly?
I am staunchly pro-life as i'm sure those who argued with me in the philosphy board about it are well aware. But i agree with this. The unfortunate fact of the matter is it is legal, and it's his job to fill prescriptions. If he has a moral objection to it - he shouldn't put himself in that position (i.e. - find a new job).
matthew330 is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 11:21 AM   #31 (permalink)
An embarrassment to myself and those around me...
 
VitaminH's Avatar
 
Location: Pants
Quote:
Originally posted by filtherton
How is this guy even a pharmacist if he has moral objections to doing his job correctly?
They taught me in pharmacy school we have the right to refuse to fill any prescription. However, company policies often beg to differ Most companies have to allow it if it's for religious reasons, because if they discipline for that, then it's discrimination. However, since he refused it on moral grounds, he's toast. Based on Illinois law he wouldn't lose his liscence, I don't know what it's like in TX though.


I would have filled it, the fact that she was a raped just reinforces it that much more.
__________________
"Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever."
- Napoleon Bonaparte
VitaminH is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 11:27 AM   #32 (permalink)
Cracking the Whip
 
Lebell's Avatar
 
Location: Sexymama's arms...
Quote:
Originally posted by VitaminH
They taught me in pharmacy school we have the right to refuse to fill any prescription. However, company policies often beg to differ Most companies have to allow it if it's for religious reasons, because if they discipline for that, then it's discrimination. However, since he refused it on moral grounds, he's toast. Based on Illinois law he wouldn't lose his liscence, I don't know what it's like in TX though.


I would have filled it, the fact that she was a raped just reinforces it that much more.
Just out of curiosity,

Then if you are a scientologist (a recognized religion by the govt.), can you refuse to fill a prescription for zoloft or prozac?

(this is a serious question, btw.)
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!
Lebell is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 11:44 AM   #33 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
"Rape is a nonsense exception."

Spoken like someone who can never be forced to have sex, then forced to endure 9 months of pregnancy, labor, and a lifetime of bonding with a child from a rapist.
Tomservo is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 01:34 PM   #34 (permalink)
Sarge of Blood Gulch Red Outpost Number One
 
archer2371's Avatar
 
Location: On the front lines against our very enemy
Quote:
Originally posted by Anomaly_
Why aren't people getting this: THE MORNING AFTER PILL IS NOT AN ABORTION PILL. It is just a higher dosage of the typical birth control pill. In other words, it prevents ovulation. There is an incredibly small chance that it would actually prevent implantation, which could be seen as abortive, however there are many other drugs not even related to birth control that can have this effect. So if anti-MAP pill people aren't against regular birth control and all drugs that could just as minutely have a chance of preventing implantation, then their argument does not hold up.

The "Pro-Life" opposition to the MAP pill makes me vomit. If this pill were prescription free, the number of abortions in the US would drop significantly. Isn't that what these people want? Of course it isn't. They are really "Pro-Telling-you-what-to-do" and "Pro-Consequences". I sincerely hope this pharmacist never stands behind a counter again. Thank you religious zealots for making the world a better place.

...
When did I say that the MAP was abortion? I said I drew the line at not helping rape victims.... I meant that in ALL situations similar to this one, whether the woman be maybe a day along, or a few months along (although it pains me to say that). You're probably confused by the abortion reference I made.... I'm actually kind of hurt that you would make that inference that all Pro-Life people want to do is boss people around. It isn't true, it just isn't. This guy is a jackass, there are people who take it too far, but it's on both sides too. Please don't make generalizations from extreme people you hear about in the news.
__________________
"This ain't no Ice Cream Social!"

"Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it."

"I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."
archer2371 is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 02:19 PM   #35 (permalink)
Walking is Still Honest
 
FoolThemAll's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Originally posted by Tomservo
"Rape is a nonsense exception."

Spoken like someone who can never be forced to have sex, then forced to endure 9 months of pregnancy, labor, and a lifetime of bonding with a child from a rapist.
Spoken like someone who realizes that killing an innocent bystander cannot be justified as a cure for emotional anguish.
__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.
FoolThemAll is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 02:22 PM   #36 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
how can you "kill" a being that does not have the power to live independantly? If something does not have a life of its own, it cannot be killed, surely?
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 02:29 PM   #37 (permalink)
Cracking the Whip
 
Lebell's Avatar
 
Location: Sexymama's arms...
AHEM.

It's fine to talk about the merits of this thread, but let's keep on track and not get personal.


Thanks,

-lebell
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!
Lebell is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 02:29 PM   #38 (permalink)
Banned
 
...aren't their like 50 abortion debate threads already.
matthew330 is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 02:51 PM   #39 (permalink)
Banned
 
Location: In Your Pants!!!!
Quote:
Originally posted by matthew330
...aren't their like 50 abortion debate threads already.
Yeah, and they always go in the same circles, regarding when something is a life, and why i believe what i believe, and who's right, until it eventually gets personal, as this thread has, and no-one is any better for any of it.

Anyways, i think they should fire the guy, and that his refusal is bad news!!!
druptight is offline  
Old 02-05-2004, 03:06 PM   #40 (permalink)
My future is coming on
 
lurkette's Avatar
 
Moderator Emeritus
Location: east of the sun and west of the moon
I hate to pull out the uterus card, but I'd love it if some of you pro-lifers who'd like to see this woman carry a rapist's child to term could walk a mile in a woman's shoes. Imagine living every day of nine months with the spawn of the man who raped you growing in your body. Who the hell are you to decide when life begins? And who the hell are you to make moral choices for other people and impose your will on the body of a woman who can bloody well make up her own mind and suffer the moral and emotional consequences herself? It's HER body, HER unborn clump of cells that may or may not become a potential life, HER choice.
__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France
lurkette is offline  
 

Tags
campaign, face, life, pro, true

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:37 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45