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Old 02-04-2004, 08:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Canadians to Bush...



Hope You Lose, Eh

via Daily Kos, who describes the news magazine as "The Canadian equivalent of Time magazine."

Quote:
Only 15 per cent, according to an exclusive new Maclean's poll, would definitely cast a ballot for Bush if they had the opportunity. And if Americans remain almost evenly divided -- some 50 per cent approve of his performance in the White House and he's running neck and neck with his likely Democratic challengers -- there is no such dithering on this side of the border. Just 12 per cent of us feel Canada is better off since he took office, and only a third of respondents will admit to liking the world's most powerful man, even just a little bit.
I pass it along without comment.
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Old 02-04-2004, 08:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I love the cover.

It doesn't shock me at all if those figures are even remotely correct.
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Old 02-04-2004, 08:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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hah, thats the funniest thing I've seen all day
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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That is pretty funny. Not quite as bad down south here, but approaching similar end result I believe/hope? I'm struggling with it.

Especially since I know some things about WMD in Syria, and I MEF on their way ~back~ over there. Vindication on all fronts appears inevitable (UBL perp walk too). Freedoms, fiscal irresponsibly, double standards, mandates, and entitlements are still troubling me.

If you are on the west DO NOT miss Sen John Edwards doing the top ten list on Dave Letterman.

"I'd give you my plan for economic recovery if I wasn't rip stinkin' drunk"

This will be the funniest thing you've seen today.

I'll tell you, I am finding him more and more engaging by the minute.

over,

-bear
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Old 02-04-2004, 11:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Canada Kicks Ass
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Old 02-05-2004, 05:15 AM   #6 (permalink)
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How assinine would it look on Time to see "Only 15% of Americans would cast a ballot for Paul Martin!".

I guess about the same as this, thankfully Time has better taste.
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Old 02-05-2004, 05:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Hah, Canadians call our President "The" President. Take that, foreigners.
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Old 02-05-2004, 08:07 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 02-05-2004, 08:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Location: Calgary, Alberta
Well, Ustwo, the rest of the world HAS to care who your president is. We have no choice. The U.S. is the largest empire in history, and can militarily, culturally and economically destroy any country it chooses to.

This is not a comment on the merits of the U.S.A.; it is a recognition of its power.

Of course the U.S. (I know I am using broad strokes here, so please forgive me and play along if you can) does not care who leads foreign lands, as long as they do not have something the U.S. wants; most of us are too small to have a recriprocal effect.

For those who are puzzled by how much we care about your politics I offer this experiment: imagine yourself an employee in a company you cannot leave, but can be fired from. Imagine the C.E.O. has pretty much unlimited and unchecked power over the substance, quality and length of your presence in the company.

Now imagine she or he got that job through questionable circumstances and has displayed dishonest, hostile and unpredictable behaviour.

How much attention would you pay to that C.E.O. - even if just for the sake of your own well-being?

Regards,

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Old 02-05-2004, 09:49 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Candide
...he got that job through questionable circumstances and has displayed dishonest, hostile and unpredictable behaviour.
These are not facts, they are hypothesis. Hypothesis' which I believe will be debunked and thrown on to the pile of rubbish that most political leaders have to endure as a result of their position. Especially one who presides over such a prosperous constituency.

-bear
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Old 02-05-2004, 09:59 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by onetime2
How assinine would it look on Time to see "Only 15% of Americans would cast a ballot for Paul Martin!".

I guess about the same as this, thankfully Time has better taste.
No, Time just realises that barely anyone in the states knows, let alone cares, about Canadian politics.
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Old 02-05-2004, 10:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Candide
The U.S. is the largest empire in history, and can militarily, culturally and economically destroy any country it chooses to.
Well, not to totally debunk your thinking here, but Cuba is still Cuba.

Quote:
Originally posted by Candide Of course the U.S. (I know I am using broad strokes here, so please forgive me and play along if you can) does not care who leads foreign lands, as long as they do not have something the U.S. wants; most of us are too small to have a recriprocal effect.
If this were true, why would we bother with other countries? Why support opposition parties, eliminate regimes, rise to threats in Europe, Korea, the Middle East, Africa, etc?

Oh well, such is life. When you're the big kid on the block everyone has something to say about you. Of course, most don't bother to seriously look at the facts and prefer to wrap everything up in a nice easy to understand package of "we know what's best".
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Old 02-05-2004, 10:16 AM   #13 (permalink)
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j8ear:
Quote:
...he got that job through questionable circumstances and has displayed dishonest, hostile and unpredictable behaviour.
they are not hypothesis, its called history.

Maclean's has always been a good magazine. its only right they say this.

onetime2:
Quote:
If this were true, why would we bother with other countries? Why support opposition parties, eliminate regimes, rise to threats in Europe, Korea, the Middle East, Africa, etc?
because united, the rest of the world can still defeat the US, its just a matter of effort. Inidivdually, other countries cant do anything effective against the US.

I saw the picture, read the first post, all I could think about is: that is the unmistakable, undeniable, god damned <b><font size="24" face="Courier">truth</font></b>.
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Old 02-05-2004, 10:34 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Let me say one thing: Bush is more important to Canada than Martin is to us.
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Old 02-05-2004, 10:38 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Location: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by numist

onetime2:


because united, the rest of the world can still defeat the US, its just a matter of effort. Inidivdually, other countries cant do anything effective against the US.

I'm not clear on your reasoning here. In the examples I gave there wasn't any possibility that "the rest of the world" would be united against us.
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Old 02-05-2004, 10:53 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Ustwo: Since you don't care, feel free to skip this or any other thread about Canada...

Quote:
Originally posted by j8ear
These are not facts, they are hypothesis. Hypothesis' which I believe will be debunked and thrown on to the pile of rubbish that most political leaders have to endure as a result of their position. Especially one who presides over such a prosperous constituency.

-bear
Regardless of whether or not they are the facts or not it is what people believe that matters.


To add to this... the numbers should not be surprising. Canada has traditionally been a very centrist county when it come to our choice of government (of course our centre is really quite left of your ever right shifting centre).

Many, if not most, of our Conservatives are quite socially "liberal" while continuing to be fiscally conservative.

It really is a different culture in Canada.
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Old 02-05-2004, 12:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scipio
Let me say one thing: Bush is more important to Canada than Martin is to us.
Do you care to elaborate on this or should we just take your word?
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Old 02-05-2004, 02:02 PM   #18 (permalink)
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hahahahaha funniest thing I've seen in a while. Gotta laugh at the Canadian's efforts.
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Old 02-05-2004, 02:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Location: Ontario for now....
Quote:
Originally posted by illesturban
hahahahaha funniest thing I've seen in a while. Gotta laugh at the Canadian's efforts.

you mean much like Canadians laugh at your president?
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Old 02-05-2004, 02:47 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by silent_jay
you mean much like Canadians laugh at your president?
To paraphrase a famous actor in a recent movie,

But at least you have heard of him, mate
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Old 02-05-2004, 04:42 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Yes we have heard of him but with the pack of lies that he and blair told before Iraq it is hard to have not heard of him. Although paul martin is not that known in the states that is usually a good thing for the Prime Minister because it means he is going along with the president, it's when americans know who the PM is that relations are going badly.
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Old 02-05-2004, 05:58 PM   #22 (permalink)
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silent_jay - I think it goes without saying. Even if Bush is not all that important in Canada, their pm is insignificant here.

I bring this up as an indirect answer to this:

"How assinine would it look on Time to see "Only 15% of Americans would cast a ballot for Paul Martin!".

I guess about the same as this, thankfully Time has better taste."

I'm not saying Canadian public opinion matters in the states, or anything like that. I just thought the cover was funny.
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Old 02-05-2004, 06:51 PM   #23 (permalink)
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my response to canada: good for you america jr. , eh
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Old 02-05-2004, 07:02 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I agree with Canada
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Old 02-05-2004, 07:30 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by milkyp
my response to canada: good for you america jr. , eh

The country is called CANADA and as I've said before to people who care to call my country that stupid name.......... wait i've been in shit for this before here.

Kindly refrain from calling CANADA america Jr. or else i as a CANADIAN will start referring to the usa as the land of the ignorant assholes. Can all americans spell CANADA or is america jr just easier for their pee brains to spell. Mods i am not trolling or flaming the comment was posted first and i believe i have a right to counter. Thank you.
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Old 02-05-2004, 07:44 PM   #26 (permalink)
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OK,

How about this:

Don't call Canada "America Jr." or the US "land of the ignorant assholes".


Fair enough, everyone?
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Old 02-05-2004, 07:58 PM   #27 (permalink)
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On the same general subject I found this to be very interesting.
I found it while searching for any canadian polls on whether or not canadians would vote for Clinton or Kerry...

http://www.geocities.com/bertsimpson/different.htm

"How Are Canadians Different from Americans?"
1996 Winnipeg-based Angus Reid Group.
Printed in MacLeans

It's amazing we can be so different when we live so close for so long, have a similar history, and share the longest unprotected border in the world.
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Old 02-05-2004, 07:58 PM   #28 (permalink)
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fair enough for me. I just am not a big fan of having my country bashed, as no one does. all is well

thanks Lebell
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Old 02-05-2004, 08:49 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Location: Toronto
Yep,

I am not lying when i say i don't know a single solitary person in Canada who likes George Bush.

Reasons I dislike George Bush:

1. Fiscally irresponsible
2. Fiscal policies will have long term repercussions for the rest of the world.
3. He is so far right wing, it hurts.
4. He has done nothing that I can think of to make America a better place. And tax cuts don't make america a better country.
5. He is uninspiring.
6. He is unintelligent.
7. He lied about Iraq, wrapped himself up in the flag and is getting away with it.
8. He has refused to do ANYTHING significant to address corporate misconduct in America. And Martha doesn't count.
9. He is xenophobic
10. His attitude towards the UN.
11. He is in bed with the religous right
12. His stand on abortion.
13. His stand on Gays period.
14. The guys he has surrounded himself with (Cheney, Rumsfeldt, Perle, Wolfowitz
15. His treatment of countries that opposed Iraq.
16. His lack of vision.
17. His stand on pot decriminalization.
18. His reckless military expanding.
19. Missile defence
20. His hypocricy.
21. His family ties.
22. The way he speaks.
23. He's lazy.

I could go on forever. The man is without a doubt the biggest buffoon the american public has ever not elected.

I feel like the world is in a bit of dark ages actually.

I really liked Clinton. The man had charisma and intelligence. It's too bad he wasn't still president.

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Old 02-05-2004, 09:02 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell
OK,

How about this:

Don't call Canada "America Jr." or the US "land of the ignorant assholes".


Fair enough, everyone?
No.

I submit respectfully,

One is reality, and the other is a purely ad hominum, rediculously childish name.

Fairness demands they identified for what they are, NOT supressed.

Right?

Canada is MY LAND too and I am proud to have Canada referred to in the same breath as the US. Just as proud as the US being mentioned in a similar light as the US.

On that same vein, it is unacceptable and unfair to disallow mention that the US is full of ignorant assholes.

And mods...come on. What's next, nap time in this place?

-bear
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Old 02-05-2004, 09:14 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Belay and or disregard my last.

It is so boring to read you propganda spewing senimar posters with nary an original position, an informed opinion, or an inspiring or thought provoking point of view.

I'm outta here,

-bear
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Old 02-05-2004, 09:15 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by james t kirk
Yep,

I am not lying when i say i don't know a single solitary person in Canada who likes George Bush.

Reasons I dislike George Bush:

1. Fiscally irresponsible


The deficit hurts, but hey one thing you don't do in time of recession is jack up taxes. BTW if you'll notice Bush's "Irresponsibility" has revigorated an inherited economy from Clinton.

Quote:
3. He is so far right wing, it hurts.
You European wannabe's are so far left it hurts
Quote:
4. He has done nothing that I can think of to make America a better place. And tax cuts don't make america a better country.
You are oblivious to how trickle down economics work and how they help the economy is times of recession.

Quote:
5. He is uninspiring.
I would not have wanted another man in office after 9/11. Judging by the polls there after most of America agreed with me.

Quote:
6. He is unintelligent.
Smart enough to "steal" the white house.

Quote:
7. He lied about Iraq, wrapped himself up in the flag and is getting away with it.
If anything he was given poor intelligence about Iraq. And there could still be weapons in Iraq, all Kay said was there were no large stock piles. Even If they are never found Saddam still had programs running and thus he was not complying with your beloved UN yet again.

Quote:
9. He is xenophobic
Against who? Last time I checked it wasn't Joe-six-pack that declared holy war against America.

Quote:
10. His attitude towards the UN.
The UN blows goats. I'm glad the man had the stones to tell the UN to piss off and thus revealing them for the worthless pieces of shit they truly are.

Quote:
11. He is in bed with the religous right
12. His stand on abortion.
13. His stand on Gays period.
I'm glad the man has a firm stand on moral issues, at least he isn't bankrupt like we increasingly see of the world abroad. Besides thats relative to you, many many people here agree with Bush and are glad he is taking a stand for what they believe is right.

Quote:
14. The guys he has surrounded himself with (Cheney, Rumsfeldt, Perle, Wolfowitz
When you want to be the best you got to be surronded by the best. Bush has one of the best cabinent's ever assembled. Our country would be struggling if brilliant policy makers and leaders such as Wolfowitz and Rummy were not in place. Powell is an awesome dude. Can't say much about Cheney, guess I'm not keen on the conspiricy theories.

Quote:
15. His treatment of countries that opposed Iraq.
You mean stand up pussies like France, Russia, and Germany? I mean say what you want about America serving its interests, but you are ridiculous if you assert that Bush was out of line when people were trying to step and cock block us.

Quote:
17. His stand on pot decriminalization.
Something we agree on.

Quote:
18. His reckless military expanding.
19. Missile defence
Well I'd say at least we have a military in place that could defend its people or others if some trouble were to arise. Canada's military is joke, you guys are as worthless as the French for christ's sake.

Quote:
20. His hypocricy.
21. His family ties.
22. The way he speaks.
23. He's lazy.
Yeah, well, thats like your opinion man....

I could go on forever. The man is without a doubt the biggest buffoon the american public has ever not elected.

Quote:
I really liked Clinton. The man had charisma and intelligence. It's too bad he wasn't still president.
It's largly due to Clinton that both America and the world finds itself in the current situation we are all in.
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Old 02-05-2004, 09:44 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
The deficit hurts, but hey one thing you don't do in time of recession is jack up taxes. BTW if you'll notice Bush's "Irresponsibility" has revigorated an inherited economy from Clinton.
And Clinton reinvigorated that same economy from the state it was in when Bush Sr left office.
And I'm a firm believer in paying in the here and now, not on credit to pass the bill to another generation. protecting our country from another 9/11 costs money. So taxes should be raised accordingly. Mr. Bush will not do that because of the reaction from the middle class, but it should be done.


Quote:
The UN blows goats. I'm glad the man had the stones to tell the UN to piss off and thus revealing them for the worthless pieces of shit they truly are.
Your opinion is one opinion abou the matter, and i have no argument that we didn't have to ask another governing body in order to take action.
That said, we have no right to ask the UN to come in now and help in order to aid in a pull back of human resources come this june of US personel. We choose to forgo UN agreement which was our perogative, but to ask for their aid after insulting them is pure hubris. It's offensive to me even that Bush would ask the UN to send troops now, and I'm a patriotic US citizen.
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Old 02-05-2004, 09:55 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Location: Ontario for now....
Quote:
Originally posted by j8ear
No.

I submit respectfully,

One is reality, and the other is a purely ad hominum, rediculously childish name.

Fairness demands they identified for what they are, NOT supressed.

Right?

Canada is MY LAND too and I am proud to have Canada referred to in the same breath as the US. Just as proud as the US being mentioned in a similar light as the US.

On that same vein, it is unacceptable and unfair to disallow mention that the US is full of ignorant assholes.
bear
if you are proud to have Canada referred to as "america jr." then i am embarrassed that you call Canada your land too. you are proud to have the us mentioned in the same light as the us?


Quote:
Originally posted by j8ear
Belay and or disregard my last.

It is so boring to read you propganda spewing senimar posters with nary an original position, an informed opinion, or an inspiring or thought provoking point of view.

I'm outta here,

-bear
instead of ranting maybe you could tell us your thought provoking point of view instead of spewing dribble.
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Old 02-05-2004, 10:54 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
You are oblivious to how trickle down economics work and how they help the economy is times of recession.

dont trickle on my leg and tell me its raining
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Old 02-06-2004, 08:27 AM   #36 (permalink)
Her Jay
 
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Location: Ontario for now....
Quote:
Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei

I would not have wanted another man in office after 9/11. Judging by the polls there after most of America agreed with me.

If anything he was given poor intelligence about Iraq. And there could still be weapons in Iraq, all Kay said was there were no large stock piles. Even If they are never found Saddam still had programs running and thus he was not complying with your beloved UN yet again.

The UN blows goats. I'm glad the man had the stones to tell the UN to piss off and thus revealing them for the worthless pieces of shit they truly are.
so bush is the only man in america who could've pointed to a map (guessing that he could read one) and said bomb Afghanistan. bush did nothing other than find an excuse to go to war.

Poor intelligence that he followed and believed, hmmmm sounds like Vietnam lies, lies and more lies.

If the UN are such "pieces of shit" maybe us soldiers should stay in Iraq and continue to get killed instead of asking for help.

Oh yeah Canada does have a military that can protect it's people should problems arise. As for us and the French being worthless militarily i must disagree just because countries oppose war does not make them worthless, except for in the eyes of americans.
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Old 02-06-2004, 10:36 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by silent_jay
so bush is the only man in america who could've pointed to a map (guessing that he could read one) and said bomb Afghanistan. bush did nothing other than find an excuse to go to war.


Well lets see, Afganistan harbored terrorists and aided them. If that isn't a justification for war then I don't know what is.

Quote:
If the UN are such "pieces of shit" maybe us soldiers should stay in Iraq and continue to get killed instead of asking for help.
When was the last time the UN successfully finished a peace keeping mission? I'd much rather have our boys finish the job and get it done right.

Quote:
Oh yeah Canada does have a military that can protect it's people should problems arise. As for us and the French being worthless militarily i must disagree just because countries oppose war does not make them worthless, except for in the eyes of americans.
Canada has a military? Why don't you read up on that. Maybe you'll find the information that says that they had to scrap its Air Force cutting its number of planes from 710 to 290, due to it being obsolete. Whats great about those 290 planes is that only 30%-60% work!!! Your helicopters are a joke.. actually again your entire air force is because it all needs to be upgraded, but your brilliant government is doling out money to repair.

Your tanks are reaching obsolesence. Thats good too because you guys are retiring your fleet of leopard C2's and your medium range artillery.... without replacement.

You can't even train your recruits. Basically you guys only have the capacity to train half of your trainee's, the rest of them dick around while getting paid. Over commitment and no replacement will leave your military at 25% of what it is today by 2007, and today it is mad wicked shitty. For the record the military is half of what it was 40 years ago.

That leaves your Navy. Your ships are sinking in your own harbors. You've had to recall destroyer's only to have to refit their replacements.

Also I thank Canada for sending troops into Afganistan, but your military is such a joke they had to pull most of them out of the field because they couldn't afford it. Also in every report I've read it has also stated how if problems were to arise Canada would be fucked because you guys don't have a fast reaction force and no means to deploy mass numbers of troops. Not to mention your military debt is 70 billion dollars. Things look pretty rough.
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Last edited by Mojo_PeiPei; 02-06-2004 at 11:09 AM..
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Old 02-06-2004, 10:48 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by silent_jay
so bush is the only man in america who could've pointed to a map (guessing that he could read one) and said bomb Afghanistan. bush did nothing other than find an excuse to go to war.

Poor intelligence that he followed and believed, hmmmm sounds like Vietnam lies, lies and more lies.

If the UN are such "pieces of shit" maybe us soldiers should stay in Iraq and continue to get killed instead of asking for help.

Oh yeah Canada does have a military that can protect it's people should problems arise. As for us and the French being worthless militarily i must disagree just because countries oppose war does not make them worthless, except for in the eyes of americans.

Ok, I will make this post and then step away before I say something I'll regret.

Three THOUSAND American lives snuffed out on 9/11 justified Afghanistan.

So you can argue on this board all you like about the justifications for Iraq, but to argue that Bush wasn't justified for taking out a regime that was ACTIVELY harboring a man (and his organization) that killed 3,000 people, pisses on each and everyone of their graves.

Please feel free to email me if you really want to know what I think of your post.

regards,

-lebell
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Old 02-06-2004, 11:08 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Certainly this isn't representative of the Canadian military as a whole but this article seems to fit into this debate. There is absolutely a lack of commitment towards maintaining Canada's military and that can only hurt morale and decrease its effectiveness. This article may describe an example of that.

Failed drug tests gut Afghan-bound unit

CFB VALCARTIER, Que. (CP) - Seventeen soldiers who tested positive for illicit drug use won't be bound for the war on terror in Afghanistan, the Canadian Forces said today.
"The reason why we didn't want to deploy them is for security reasons," said Capt. Mario Couture, a military spokesman.

"We can't afford to have people under the influence of illicit substances while they're conducting patrols."

A Canadian soldier was recently killed in a suicide bomb attack.

A total of 19 soldiers in a unit headed to Afghanistan have tested positive.

The other two were not scheduled to go to the strife-torn area, Couture said.

Twenty-nine soldiers were tested for drugs.

The tests followed searches of the base, near Quebec City, by military police and drug-detecting dogs earlier this week after they received a tip.

The military couldn't immediately say which drugs had been detected and were awaiting results on tests of drugs seized.

A small quantity of drugs was found during the search of several offices and lockers belonging to the 3rd Battalion of the Royal 22nd Regiment at Valcartier, said the National Investigation Service, the investigative arm of the military police.

The 3rd Battalion, which comprises 600 soldiers, will be shipping soldiers to Afghanistan until mid-month and some have already arrived. None of those is under suspicion, Couture said.

"Nobody that was targeted or nobody that was looked into had deployed so the problem was not transferred over to Afghanistan already."

Couture said the military takes a hard line when it comes to drug use.

"It's clear, it's zero tolerance. We don't mess with drugs and all the members know that. They know that when they join the forces and they're reminded during their career. There's no surprise there for them."

He said the military did not take the action just because the troops are being deployed to Afghanistan, known as one of the world's major drug producing regions.

"It's a spot where drugs are available but we just can't afford to have people undermined by illicit substances. They pose a threat to themselves and one to their colleagues."

The 19 could face reprimands or discharge from the forces, the military said in a statement.

"The chain of command is now taking appropriate preventative measures to ensure the safety of troops deployed in Afghanistan," said Lt-Col. Bernard Ouellette, acting commander of 5 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group.

Couture said the military has to grapple with drugs like the rest of society and noted that most in the unit aren't under suspicion.

"Out of that 600, only 30 personnel were targeted and out of that 19 showed positive. If we put that in context, it's not that huge. It's still too much for my taste and the one of the (forces).

Capt. Mark Giles, a spokesman for the National Investigation Service in Ottawa, pointed out the number of soldiers who tested positive in drug tests do not necessarily reflect how many, if any, would be charged.

"Just because X number of people test positive on a drug test for example, that doesn't correspond to the same number of charges under the National Defence Act or otherwise," Giles said.

He said investigators would be concentrating on such angles as whether a soldier possessed or sold drugs.

Giles also could not confirm reports the search earlier this week was sparked by a tip from the RCMP.
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Old 02-06-2004, 11:30 AM   #40 (permalink)
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That is scary....19 of 30 men tested positive..

Wow

i wonder if it's pot
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