Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Politics


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-28-2004, 04:05 AM   #1 (permalink)
Lennonite Priest
 
pan6467's Avatar
 
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
True or Not?

(Threads merged)

Iranian Radio Reports Bin Laden Captured

27 minutes ago


By ALI AKBAR DAREINI, Associated Press Writer

TEHRAN, Iran - Iran's state radio, quoting an unnamed source, said Saturday that Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) was captured in Pakistan "a long time ago." U.S. and Pakistani officials denied the report.



The report said that U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld's visit to the region this week was in connection with the arrest. In Washington, a U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, denied early Saturday that bin Laden was captured.

The report was carried by Iran radio's external Pushtun service. The director of Iran radio's Pushtun service, Asheq Hossein, said he had two sources for the report that bin Laden had been captured.

A Pakistani military operation has been under way in the border region between Pakistan and Afghanistan (news - web sites), and a Pakistani official said previously that members of al-Qaida are being sought there, although bin laden was not a specific target.

Pakistani Army spokesman Gen. Shaukat Sultan also told The Associated Press that the report was not true. "That information is wrong," he said.

Speaking to the AP in Tehran, Hossein identified one of the sources as "Shamim Shahed, editor" of the English-language Pakistani newspaper The Nation in Peshawar. Hossein said Shahed told him Friday night that bin Laden was arrested "a long time ago."

But Shahed, who is The Nation's Peshawar bureau chief and not its editor, denied telling the Iranian radio station that bin Laden had been captured.

"I never said this," Shahed said in a telephone interview with the AP's Islamabad bureau. "But I have for the last year been saying that he is not far away. He is within their (the Americans') reach, and they can declare him arrested any time."

Shahed gave no evidence to back up that claim.

Hossein said he had a second source for his report that bin Laden had been captured, but he declined to identify him except to say he was "a man with close links to intelligence services and Afghan tribal leaders."

Iranian state radio quoted its reporter as saying the arrest happened a long time ago.

"Osama bin Laden has been arrested a long time ago, but Bush is intending to use it for propaganda maneuvering in the presidential election," he said.

Homayoun Jarir, son-in-law of Afghan warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, said he could not confirm the report.

(AFP)

LINK: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=540&ncid=716

So is this true? Your opinions...............

Mine is I can see Bush doing this. Keeping Bin Laden hidden until a week before the election and then suddenly finding him. Especially if Bush is behind.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Last edited by MSD; 02-29-2004 at 08:02 PM..
pan6467 is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 04:08 AM   #2 (permalink)
Heathen
 
Nomad's Avatar
 
Location: California
Iranian Radio Reports Bin Laden Captured ... ?

This Is an Interesting Quote

"Osama bin Laden has been arrested a long time ago, but Bush is intending to use it for propaganda maneuvering in the presidential election," he said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=540&ncid=716

-Snip-

Iran's state radio, quoting an unnamed source, said Saturday that Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) was captured in Pakistan "a long time ago." U.S. and Pakistani officials denied the report.

The report said that U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld's visit to the region this week was in connection with the arrest. In Washington, a U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, denied early Saturday that bin Laden was captured.

The report was carried by Iran radio's external Pushtun service. The director of Iran radio's Pushtun service, Asheq Hossein, said he had two sources for the report that bin Laden had been captured.

A Pakistani military operation has been under way in the border region between Pakistan and Afghanistan (news - web sites), and a Pakistani official said previously that members of al-Qaida are being sought there, although bin laden was not a specific target.

Pakistani Army spokesman Gen. Shaukat Sultan also told The Associated Press that the report was not true. "That information is wrong," he said.
Nomad is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 04:18 AM   #3 (permalink)
Heathen
 
Nomad's Avatar
 
Location: California
They changed the page

They changed the page ...

At the top of the page It said ... Iranian Radio Reports Bin Laden Captured

It now says ... U.S. Denies Report of Bin Laden's Capture
Nomad is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 06:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
Winner
 
I've suspected that this is true. Its very suspicious when you have military officials and senators making statements that Osama will be caught this year.
However, a stunt like that could backfire for Bush if it gets out what he was trying to do in once again deceiving the American people.
maximusveritas is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 06:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
prb
Psycho
 
Can you say "October Surprise?"
prb is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 06:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
My own person -- his by choice
 
Location: Lebell's arms
I think is is propaganda. There are still plenty of easterners on Laden's side.
__________________
If you can go deeply into lovemaking, the ego disappears. That is the beauty of lovemaking, that it is another source of a glimpse of god

It's not about being perfect; it's about developing some skill at managing imperfection.
sexymama is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 06:41 AM   #7 (permalink)
Minion of the scaléd ones
 
Tophat665's Avatar
 
Location: Northeast Jesusland
"Osama bin Laden has been arrested a long time ago, but Bush is intending to use it for propaganda maneuvering in the presidential election," he said.

"Osama bin Laden has been arrested a long time ago, but Bush is intending to use it for propaganda maneuvering in the presidential election," I said.

File under "no surprises there".

Of course, this could just be Iran trying to stir up trouble in Afghanistan, so it could be bunk. Let's hope so.
__________________
Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Tophat665 is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 07:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
Ustwo's Avatar
 
Lets just pretend this is true....

What other reasons can you think of besides an 'october surprise' would you want to keep his capture secret?
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.
Ustwo is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 09:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
Cracking the Whip
 
Lebell's Avatar
 
Location: Sexymama's arms...
True? Possible. Many things are possible.

But being possible doesn't make it likely.
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!
Lebell is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 09:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
Addict
 
Evil Milkman's Avatar
 
Location: Illinois
Quote:
Originally posted by Ustwo
Lets just pretend this is true....

What other reasons can you think of besides an 'october surprise' would you want to keep his capture secret?
That's just the point, no other reasons would be necessary. I think it's possible that they've already captured Bin Laden, but I also honestly don't believe they have already. I could be dead wrong and wouldn't be surprised at all.
Evil Milkman is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 10:16 AM   #11 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
I'd be surprised if Bin Laden allowed himself to be taken alive, he is intelligent enough to know America would torture him, put him through a show trial and then kill him anyway. And if Bin Laden HAD been captued/killed, I think we would have experienced huge attacks in retaliation by now.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 10:22 AM   #12 (permalink)
Junkie
 
filtherton's Avatar
 
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
I think hillary clinton has captured bin laden and is going to bust him out in mid 2008 to bolster her run for the presidency.


Seriously, i doubt bin laden will be taken alive. He dies, and in doing so inspires his followers.
filtherton is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 10:28 AM   #13 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
Ustwo's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Evil Milkman
That's just the point, no other reasons would be necessary. I think it's possible that they've already captured Bin Laden, but I also honestly don't believe they have already. I could be dead wrong and wouldn't be surprised at all.
Well I don't think we did either, BUT if we did and it was somewhat secret I would not tell the world. I would 'extract' any information I could about leaders, networks, cells etc, while they still didn't know Osama was captured. Taking down Osama will be a moral victory but won't kill the organization. Taking down all the top leaders would.
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.
Ustwo is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 10:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Ustwo
Well I don't think we did either, BUT if we did and it was somewhat secret I would not tell the world. I would 'extract' any information I could about leaders, networks, cells etc, while they still didn't know Osama was captured. Taking down Osama will be a moral victory but won't kill the organization. Taking down all the top leaders would.
I dont know, as long as their are ideals for which people are prepared to die and all that...

The way to end this conflict, which is fast looking like a holy war, to me is peace and understanding, not a crushing measure of violence from one side of the other. Bin Laden himself said "kill me if you will, buy you cannot kill the idea's I stand for, and when I die 100 Usama's are born" or something like that. If Al Qieda is destroyed, it wont stop the fact that the world is full of people who are impoverished, miserable, and who hate the West, especially Israel, America and the UK. Every bomb in Iraq or Afghanistan, every indignity forced on Hussain or any other leaders of the "enemy" which are caught doesnt quell the will to fight, it enrages it.

You cannot make peace with war - not in a conflict like this, because this is not the war of the master class - who force the working classes of their nations to fight; this is a war of hearts and minds.

And, I agree with filterton, Bin Laden probably will not be taken alive - he's probably had plastic sugery and living in the last place anyone would look by now anyway.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 11:37 AM   #15 (permalink)
Paq
Junkie
 
Paq's Avatar
 
Location: South Carolina
believe me, "Taking down Osama will be a moral victory but won't kill the organization. Taking down all the top leaders would." would not end the war on terrorism. You *can* take down all the top leaders..and more will follow..and more will follow...and so on and so forth until you take care of the root problem. The root problem either being the US or the general state of affairs of the middle east or any number of any 10,000 things that can possibly piss off a religious zealot..which could be anything, depends on interpretation. I think that is why the "War on terrorism" is a BAD idea. Sure, there haven't been any attacks on american soil...but i dont' recall any attacks on canada's soil either...(haven't checked that, but i'm fairly certain) or on norway's soil..or germany's..or france's..or any of several countries, so saying we are winning bc there haven't been any attacks on our soil isn't exactly very satisfying.

I do, however, think the war on terrorism is just a bad idea all together. and i agree with Strange famous, in that the only end will be peace and understanding of some form or another. More violence from the US will result in more acts of terrorism in a vicious circle that will escalate until....hell, i'm not a fortune teller so i can't exactly say how far it will go, but i think the idea of open ended warfare is dangerous and foolish.
__________________
Live.

Chris
Paq is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 12:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
Ustwo's Avatar
 
Yes lets hold hands and chant a bit.

Sorry but this isn't hippie time, you can't compromise with a zealot, thats what being a zealot is all about, so in this case you kill them, disarm them, make them as ineffective as possible. If you have to force democracy down their throats, you do it, we have done it before and if needed we can do it again.
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.
Ustwo is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 12:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
But the way to make Usama as ineffective as possible isnt to kill him, killing him makes him a matyr. The way to make him ineffective is to remove the poverty and misery that turns people to his message of intolerance and hatrid.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 12:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
Ustwo's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Strange Famous
But the way to make Usama as ineffective as possible isnt to kill him, killing him makes him a matyr. The way to make him ineffective is to remove the poverty and misery that turns people to his message of intolerance and hatrid.
Poverty has nothing to do with it. This isn't a class struggle so put your little red book away. Government sponsored hate and ignorance is the cause. Either they change willingly or we change them, no other solution will work.
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.
Ustwo is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 12:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
Paq
Junkie
 
Paq's Avatar
 
Location: South Carolina
Quote:
Originally posted by Ustwo
Poverty has nothing to do with it. This isn't a class struggle so put your little red book away. Government sponsored hate and ignorance is the cause. Either they change willingly or we change them, no other solution will work.
That's about the scariest thing i've ever read.."Gee..we don't agree with you, we're bombing the hell out of you, controlling your countries, etc, and if you don't like it, we'll make you like it.."
"Change or be changed"

Wow...

Maybe we should start singing a bit..i prefer the 90's angst to this new "war is peace" mentality
__________________
Live.

Chris
Paq is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 12:48 PM   #20 (permalink)
Cracking the Whip
 
Lebell's Avatar
 
Location: Sexymama's arms...
Quote:
Originally posted by Strange Famous
But the way to make Usama as ineffective as possible isnt to kill him, killing him makes him a matyr. The way to make him ineffective is to remove the poverty and misery that turns people to his message of intolerance and hatrid.

I believe this is part of the answer, but not the whole answer, because it assumes that all people will be rational when their basic needs are met (food, shelter, security, etc.)

This is demostratably not true.

For example, Bin Laden is not conducting his Jihad because of the Palestinians (if he was, he was be contributing monetarily to helping them by building schools, hospitals, etc.) or because he or his family have nothing to lose (he is a millionaire), but because he sees himself as another Saladan driving out the "Infidel" from Islamic lands and holy places. (That includes driving the Jews out of Israel, btw.)

In other words, he is driven not by reason, but by religious zealotry and ego.

So talking is not an option because there is no compromise and you can never meet all his demands, and if you don't, he'll continue to try to kill you.

Your only choices with this type of madman are complete surrender or fighting back.

And since I have no desire to become a follower of Mohammed, I chose fight back.
So reasoning with Bin Laden
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!
Lebell is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 01:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
Boo
Leave me alone!
 
Boo's Avatar
 
Location: Alaska, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Strange Famous
I'd be surprised if Bin Laden allowed himself to be taken alive, he is intelligent enough to know America would torture him, put him through a show trial and then kill him anyway. And if Bin Laden HAD been captued/killed, I think we would have experienced huge attacks in retaliation by now.
Really now. What would a person involved with as many deaths as he is reputed to be deserve? What if the proof is totally positive? Undisputed? What if he...CONFESSES?

Between the "October Surprise" comments and the "torture" comments, I think we need a Tilted Political Paranoia Conspriacy forum.

Bin Laden might just figure that he can still win some hearts by staying alive. Funny how a M-16 in your nose can change your entire thought process in a flash.

We may get huge attacks of retaliation still. I just hope that the people responsible know and understand that America is sick and fucking tired of dealing with them. Let their familys of the terrorists know that America is an Eagle with 10 mega-ton talons.

Would we as Americans ever get mad enough to get mean, REAL MEAN because of terrorist acts? Mean enough to put the Geneva Convention on "hold" and completely obliterate the enemy.

Understand that American War Doctrine is changing based oon the actions and reactions of the enemy.
__________________
Back button again, I must be getting old.
Boo is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 01:14 PM   #22 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
I agree, there will always be religious maniacs, in every society. In a good and happy society they exist on the margins and have no power and everyone ignores them. When there is poverty, fear, war - they can become heroes. We cannot reason with Usama Bin Laden, but the goal is surely to reduce him or people like him to their true station, religious crack pots ranting on street corners and no one gives a shit about them.


Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell
I believe this is part of the answer, but not the whole answer, because it assumes that all people will be rational when their basic needs are met (food, shelter, security, etc.)

This is demostratably not true.

For example, Bin Laden is not conducting his Jihad because of the Palestinians (if he was, he was be contributing monetarily to helping them by building schools, hospitals, etc.) or because he or his family have nothing to lose (he is a millionaire), but because he sees himself as another Saladan driving out the "Infidel" from Islamic lands and holy places. (That includes driving the Jews out of Israel, btw.)

In other words, he is driven not by reason, but by religious zealotry and ego.

So talking is not an option because there is no compromise and you can never meet all his demands, and if you don't, he'll continue to try to kill you.

Your only choices with this type of madman are complete surrender or fighting back.

And since I have no desire to become a follower of Mohammed, I chose fight back.
So reasoning with Bin Laden
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 01:21 PM   #23 (permalink)
Baltimoron
 
djtestudo's Avatar
 
Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD
Comedian Ron White says that although he is very pro-death penalty they shoudl throw Osama in prison, becaue spiritually he's prepared to die for his beliefs but spiritually he is NOT prepared to lick raspberry jelly from Thunderdick's buttcrack.
__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun
djtestudo is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 01:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Boo
Really now. What would a person involved with as many deaths as he is reputed to be deserve? What if the proof is totally positive? Undisputed? What if he...CONFESSES?

Between the "October Surprise" comments and the "torture" comments, I think we need a Tilted Political Paranoia Conspriacy forum.

Bin Laden might just figure that he can still win some hearts by staying alive. Funny how a M-16 in your nose can change your entire thought process in a flash.

We may get huge attacks of retaliation still. I just hope that the people responsible know and understand that America is sick and fucking tired of dealing with them. Let their familys of the terrorists know that America is an Eagle with 10 mega-ton talons.

Would we as Americans ever get mad enough to get mean, REAL MEAN because of terrorist acts? Mean enough to put the Geneva Convention on "hold" and completely obliterate the enemy.

Understand that American War Doctrine is changing based oon the actions and reactions of the enemy.
You need to understand one thing about people like Bin Laden... they are not afraid to die, they want to die in their holy war - their mentality seems almost close to the European crusadors of the middle ages - their language is frighteningly similar even.

And one other thing, vengence can never be sated by violence... if they strike, and you strike back, and they strike, and you retaliate... there is no end, only the death of many innocents, the only end is peace, of the end of men.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 01:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
Cracking the Whip
 
Lebell's Avatar
 
Location: Sexymama's arms...
Quote:
Originally posted by Strange Famous
And one other thing, vengence can never be sated by violence... if they strike, and you strike back, and they strike, and you retaliate... there is no end, only the death of many innocents, the only end is peace, of the end of men.

I really don't think you understand.

Osama Bin Laden would walk up to you and put a bullet in your head without thinking twice.

Take the words and think about getting your brains blown out the back of your head and your lifeless body hitting the ground.

THIS is the reality and no amount of "Peace" is going to change it.

So your only choice for this kind of fanatic is to fight back or to die.

The world is what it is and wishing it to be different isn't going to make it so. It is only a convoluted way to commit suicide.
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!
Lebell is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 01:44 PM   #26 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
Ustwo's Avatar
 
Ummmm Saudi Arabia is very wealthy as a nation. The people do not live in poverty.

Yet 15 of 19 suicide hijackers came from there.

Poverty is NOT the cause, being poor doesn't make you blow yourself up. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with poverty. Until you get that through your heads you won't be able to grasp whats going on.
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.
Ustwo is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 02:02 PM   #27 (permalink)
Insane
 
The funny thing is: Noam Chomsky predicted this would happen when he was speaking with reporters at the UN. I'm not saying it's true -- just that it's a funny coincidence. C-SPAN2 is going to replay his speech Sunday at 4:00 am eastern if anyone wants to see it (or tape it). You can also watch online.
Quote:
Description: From the United Nations Correspondents Association in New York City, Noam Chomsky discusses the "Bush doctrine" and its implications. In particular, Professor Chomsky addresses the Bush administration's space policy and its overall efforts to expand U.S. influence and power. He also talks about the case of British whistleblower Katherine Gun, who leaked a memo stating that the NSA had been spying on UN Security Council members, and discusses the charges against the Cuban 5, who were convicted of espionage in 2001. Professor Chomsky answers questions from members of the correspondents association following his remarks.
http://www.booktv.org/General/index....05&schedID=253
hammer4all is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 02:31 PM   #28 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Ustwo
Ummmm Saudi Arabia is very wealthy as a nation. The people do not live in poverty.

Yet 15 of 19 suicide hijackers came from there.

Poverty is NOT the cause, being poor doesn't make you blow yourself up. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with poverty. Until you get that through your heads you won't be able to grasp whats going on.
Many people in the Kingdom live in grotesque poverty. Saudi Arabia may be rich, so was Iraq, its people usually arent.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 02:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
Ustwo's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Strange Famous
Many people in the Kingdom live in grotesque poverty. Saudi Arabia may be rich, so was Iraq, its people usually arent.
I'm sorry SF but the Hijackers were not from poor downtrodden families. They were educated men, who had been taught to hate since they were children by their culture.
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.
Ustwo is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 04:04 PM   #30 (permalink)
follower of the child's crusade?
 
I dont personally have access to information on the socio-economic situation of a specific group of suicide bombers, but I think I can safetly say that they generally come from the poorest and most hopeless sections of the world.
__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas
Strange Famous is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 04:13 PM   #31 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Right here
Quote:
Originally posted by Ustwo
I'm sorry SF but the Hijackers were not from poor downtrodden families. They were educated men, who had been taught to hate since they were children by their culture.
According to the terrorism books I've been reading, Ustwo is correct. Hijackers are coming from the equivalent of our middle class.

I think the they might see the money and power passing from elites in our country back and forth with elites in their countries. Then they strike at what they view as the root of their concerns.

I am also curious as to whether hatred toward the "Jews" is really based on religious ideology. My understanding is that Muslims have had the most cordial relationship with followers of Judaism than Christianity. In fact, large Jewish communities exist within various "Islamic" regions after they fled Europe during the Inquisition--there has not been centuries old historical animosity between the two.

bin Laden, and other political leaders, use that as a tool to whip up hatred against an "other," but its not very effective realitive to the amount of people who still do not desire or attempt to eradicate jews.
smooth is offline  
Old 02-28-2004, 07:59 PM   #32 (permalink)
Boo
Leave me alone!
 
Boo's Avatar
 
Location: Alaska, USA
Terrorists are termites. Anyone that have lived in a place with termites knows how they are handled.

1) You find one and you kill it and pray that it was the only one.

2) You find a small colony and you use carpet spraying and smart chemicals and hope that will end the problem.

3) You find they are attempting total takeover. You completely tent the place and nuke it with all the chemicals at hand.

4) You find that they have survived all previous measures and you burn the building down and make a parking lot of it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Strange Famous
I dont personally have access to information on the socio-economic situation of a specific group of suicide bombers, but I think I can safetly say that they generally come from the poorest and most hopeless sections of the world.
Nothing that I have read supports the poor claim. Not that it matters. Am I supposed to "feel" for them because they are poor? They didn't hijack those planes for a sandwich or a place to spend the night. That dog won't hunt.
__________________
Back button again, I must be getting old.
Boo is offline  
Old 02-29-2004, 01:05 AM   #33 (permalink)
Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate
 
Location: Los Angeles
I have little compassion for terrorists but the termite analogy isn't very good because termites do not spawn from other things present - terrorists can and will.
Zeld2.0 is offline  
Old 02-29-2004, 08:55 AM   #34 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: NJ
Let's look at this in a couple of ways, let's first assume it is true. Can anyone think of reasons why the capture should be kept from the public besides a re-election tool?

How about pumping him for information?

Or to minimize the likelihood that he can be pointed to as a martyr in prison for his beliefs and used as a rallying cry for terrorist recruiters.

Now, if it's false... What reasons would there be to create such a story? Perhaps to hurt Bush's re election by portraying Bush as using the war on terror to manipulate the election? Or to reduce any popularity boost that the real capture of Bin Laden before the election? How about to further portray the US as a secretive and dangerous manipulator?
__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.
onetime2 is offline  
Old 02-29-2004, 11:22 AM   #35 (permalink)
Cracking the Whip
 
Lebell's Avatar
 
Location: Sexymama's arms...
Quote:
Originally posted by onetime2
Now, if it's false... What reasons would there be to create such a story?
You forgot one very likely possiblity: That the Arab world is master at paranoia.

Everyone is trying to oppress them and the Mossad is behind everything that goes wrong.
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!
Lebell is offline  
Old 02-29-2004, 12:16 PM   #36 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Right here
Quote:
Originally posted by Boo
Nothing that I have read supports the poor claim. Not that it matters. Am I supposed to "feel" for them because they are poor? They didn't hijack those planes for a sandwich or a place to spend the night. That dog won't hunt.
Strange Famous didn't state that terrorists are poor (he even wrote that he didn't have any information in regards to their personal SES), just that they come from some of the poorest regions in the world--which is true.
smooth is offline  
Old 02-29-2004, 03:54 PM   #37 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell
You forgot one very likely possiblity: That the Arab world is master at paranoia.

Everyone is trying to oppress them and the Mossad is behind everything that goes wrong.
Yeah well.... I thought that was a given.
__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.
onetime2 is offline  
Old 02-29-2004, 07:04 PM   #38 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Seaver's Avatar
 
Location: Fort Worth, TX
editted...

Last edited by Seaver; 02-29-2004 at 08:30 PM..
Seaver is offline  
Old 02-29-2004, 07:14 PM   #39 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Seaver's Avatar
 
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Because there are two threads I simply copy/pasted onto here. Yeah, taking this back to the origional post, because I could talk for hours on the roots of 9/11.

Treating propoganda like this as fact makes baby jesus cry.

1) What in the hell makes you think Iran of all countries has sources capable of stealing information like this from the Pentagon. 1st world countries have a hell of a time doing it, Iran cant even get a decent emergency response from an earthquake.

2) You have to look at the fact that the vast majority of information in Muslim countries is either complete bs, or distorted. Hell Muslims from Morocco to Indonesia were praying that Gore wouldnt win the Presidency because he was a Jew.

3) Once again, how in the hell woud Iran of all people find this information out if it was true?
Seaver is offline  
Old 02-29-2004, 08:00 PM   #40 (permalink)
MSD
The sky calls to us ...
 
MSD's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: CT
It wouldn't surprise me if he was dead and buried a long itme ago, and we kept it quiet to prevent him from becoming a martyr or to prevent people from trying to break him out.

I'm not saying that I think that's the truth, just that I wouldn't be surprised.
MSD is offline  
 

Tags
true

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:30 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360