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Old 05-12-2004, 09:27 AM   #1 (permalink)
Insane
 
Get the Hell out Now!

I know I am going to piss off a lot of people with this post, but after reading about and seeing the video of Nick Berg...All I can say is for any American who is non military and currently in Iraq to "Get the Hell out of there NOW !

Why you are there, is beyond common sense. I am sorry, but I am no longer going to be able to grieve over more Americans being kidnapped, jailed, tortured, or murdered.

Is your life worth just money? If you are there because you want to "make a $100,000" to "help rebuild Iraq" and you are brutually murdered, then...too bad... you made your choice and now your family will be the ones who will suffer. Oh, and if your dead, I guess you can't work, thus no more money coming in to your family.

Now this is just my opinion, which I am entitled to. But, I would like to hear from others and maybe they will enlighten me into realizing something that I am missing.
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Old 05-12-2004, 09:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
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We are fighting a group of people that want us dead. They don't care if they die in the process, as long as it takes us out. If we were not over there fighting them they would be over here killing us. I prefer fighting them over there.
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Old 05-12-2004, 09:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
Dubya
 
Location: VA
Quote:
Originally posted by Peetster
We are fighting a group of people that want us dead. They don't care if they die in the process, as long as it takes us out. If we were not over there fighting them they would be over here killing us. I prefer fighting them over there.
He's talking about the non-military, ie the folks who actually have a choice. And I tend to agree, even a thousand bucks a day isn't worth it.
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Old 05-12-2004, 09:46 AM   #4 (permalink)
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"He [Nick Berg] even made several trips to Third World countries; in Ghana, he taught villagers how to make bricks, and returned emaciated because he gave away most of his food, his father said."

Yup...sounds like a money grubbing capitalist who got what he deserved to me. I doubt his family cares if you're grieving, but they would probably appreciate a little respect.
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Old 05-12-2004, 09:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
Insane
 
Peetster, I agree with what you are saying. But I specifically stated that any " Non Military " people should not be there.

You are right, in that they want us dead, and fortunatly or unfortunatly we, meaning American's, are a civil people and just continue to take the "murderous shit" that the barbarians in the Middle East continue to throw our way.

And if we don't start giving back some of their shit, then soon they will be killing us on American soil. 9/11 was just the begining and I am suprised that nothing else has happened again to that magnitued, but I truly believe it will.

And, I am amazed that we, meaning the American Military, does not have a group of people who have specifically been trained to get in somewhere, do a job, and then get out. Meaning, why the hell do we not have a secret military group that no one knows about and just gets the job done. And when I say get the job done, I mean GET THE JOB DONE!!!!
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Old 05-12-2004, 09:52 AM   #6 (permalink)
Insane
 
Just so everyone knows, in another post, I did say my thoughts and prayers go out to the Berg Family. I am truly so saddened by their loss.
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Old 05-12-2004, 09:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Location: Illinois
Quote:
Originally posted by Peetster
If we were not over there fighting them they would be over here killing us. I prefer fighting them over there.
Bad argument. Since where is the evidence that they COULD be over here in huge numbers fighting us? Sure, they would if they could, but there was certainly not an immediate threat.
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Old 05-12-2004, 09:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
mml
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While I think it is not a bad idea to consider pulling all civilians out of Iraq, it is not so simple. A large portion of our contingent in Iraq is comprised of civilian contractors (Berg was not one of these) employed by the military to do jobs vitally necessary to the success of this mission. They are people who have chosen to be there and frankly we cannot win this war or at least bring it to a relatively peaceful conclusion without their assistance. It may, however, be time to determine the long term pros and cons of using civilian contractors to do traditional military jobs.

Additionally, would that include journalists, U.N. workers or Red Cross/Red Cresent representatives who are also U.S. citizens? It is just not a simple situation.
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Old 05-12-2004, 10:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Evil Milkman
Bad argument. Since where is the evidence that they COULD be over here in huge numbers fighting us? Sure, they would if they could, but there was certainly not an immediate threat.
you don't know that any more than the border patrol does - the simple fact we have had open borders for years lends credance to his statement...

i live in maine where there are hundreds of miles of unprotected border with canada - each year we have to wait in traffic on I95 waiting for the INS and customs root through every single vehicle checking papers - i wonder why they do that...
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Old 05-12-2004, 10:11 AM   #10 (permalink)
can't help but laugh
 
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Location: dar al-harb
i wouldn't go so far as to say "get the hell out now!" but i do hope that whoever decides to go over there as a civilian knows the risks involved. there are people who will cut your freakin head off just for being born in the US. they don't care if you voted for Gore, they don't care if you're there to help, they don't care that you have family back home. sometimes i think in our comparatively docile lives here in the States (or nearly everywhere else in the western world), we fail to understand the violence that is part of life in some places in the world.

that being said, there is a good chance berg knew what the implications were and decided to go anyway. wow, what a desparately sad situation.
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Old 05-12-2004, 10:38 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Location: Right here
Quote:
Originally posted by Hanxter
you don't know that any more than the border patrol does - the simple fact we have had open borders for years lends credance to his statement...

i live in maine where there are hundreds of miles of unprotected border with canada - each year we have to wait in traffic on I95 waiting for the INS and customs root through every single vehicle checking papers - i wonder why they do that...
What I don't understand from his statement or yours is how fighting people over there precludes attack over here?
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Old 05-12-2004, 01:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD
Quote:
Originally posted by sky_driver
And, I am amazed that we, meaning the American Military, does not have a group of people who have specifically been trained to get in somewhere, do a job, and then get out. Meaning, why the hell do we not have a secret military group that no one knows about and just gets the job done. And when I say get the job done, I mean GET THE JOB DONE!!!!
How do you know they don't?

If they went into every situation like this, pretty soon they would be known, and that would defeat the purpose.
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Old 05-12-2004, 02:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
Nick Berg recognized the worsening of the situation at the end of March and set about trying to leave Iraq.

Before he could do so, he was arrested at a checkpoint and detained by the FBI for 13 days. He was eventually released and subsequently captured by the militants.

We here don't know how the situation on the ground changed in those 13 days. We don't know how his real chances of escape changed during that period. We don't know whether he had connections or how sensible his actual plan was.

As a small businessman, Berg lacked the resources of the Halliburton contractors to ensure a completely safe withdrawal strategy. Only the most wealthy and politically connected companies would have such resources.
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