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Old 06-22-2004, 10:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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bush2004.com......oops

Talk about a foobar, I almost feel sorry for the Bush campaign.

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0...w=wn_tophead_2

Guess living with him as governor, was almost as bad as having him as president.
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Last edited by tecoyah; 06-22-2004 at 12:20 PM..
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Old 06-22-2004, 12:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Actually Bush was one of the most popular governors in the history of Texas. He did a LOT of good for the state, and his slogan of being a uniter was based off of his stay in the state, where he brought both sides together to pass a lot of needed laws.

This was no small feat considering that at the time the legistlature had been democratic since the civil war. A sign of how popular he was... after his terms the state swayed to republican, the first time in about 150years... even more of a feat considering the massive jerrymeanduring that went on.
Side note: now that the republicans are jerrymeanduring themselves the democrats threw a fit and left the state in a protest. To the populace it was as simple as a hissy fit (both sides mind you), and those that left the state found their public opinion polls at an all time low.

One person is no judge on how well a person ran an entire state (with the second highest population in the nation now). It's his popularity and the changes that continued after he left office that is the biggest sign.
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Old 06-22-2004, 12:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Um. What good did Bush do for his state?

Please, some accomplishments.
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Old 06-22-2004, 12:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Superbelt
Um. What good did Bush do for his state?

Please, some accomplishments.
Oh come on....

How about the incredible advances in public education in the Texas schools.
Or the fantastic changes in air quality.
You gotta be impressed with the number of executions.
Also the significant shift in tax burden.

Damn....this sounds strangely familiar.

I wonder if he will scale up his impressive record in buisiness, we could bankrupt the entire country......wait a minute.
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Old 06-22-2004, 12:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by tecoyah
Oh come on....

How about the incredible advances in public education in the Texas schools.
Or the fantastic changes in air quality.
You gotta be impressed with the number of executions.
Also the significant shift in tax burden.

Damn....this sounds strangely familiar.

I wonder if he will scale up his impressive record in buisiness, we could bankrupt the entire country......wait a minute.
So you live in Texas?
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Old 06-22-2004, 12:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by djtestudo
So you live in Texas?
No....I do not.

Research is a wonderful thing though.
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Old 06-22-2004, 12:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by djtestudo
So you live in Texas?
I live in Louisiana, and we're sick of Texas' air pollution blowing into our state. We don't exactly have a pristine environment anyway, so we don't need any help. Texas is the most polluted state in the union, btw.
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Old 06-22-2004, 12:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ooh, he signed a damned good Patients bill of Rights for Texas!

Ooh wait, he only took credit for it. It passed with a veto proof majority and he let it pass into law without his signature. Now as president he got the SC to nullify it.
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Old 06-22-2004, 01:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Wait.... if George W. Bush was such a horrible governor, why did Texas vote for him as President?

He's popular as all getout in Texas (yes, I'm from Texas), and he was a great uniter. If he has one big fault in Washington, it's that he's an outsider and hasn't become entrenched in their petty partisan bickering, nor will he tolerate it. That's why the Beltway crowd hates him so.

Myself, I think the Presidency should be held by an outsider. DC politicians on both sides are pathetically misguided, and more concerned with funneling pork to their constituencies so they can stay in office than they are in acting as responsible stewards of OUR tax money. A governor from outside the Eastern timezone is a great counterbalance to the shady actions of Congress.
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Old 06-22-2004, 02:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Must...resist.....reply.........Oh the pain,....
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Old 06-22-2004, 03:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Well he HAS to be popular, considering he's the only Governor in Texas to be elected 4 consecutive times.. but lets choose to ignore that.

He prevented the passing of a state income tax, helping greatly those that dont own land... mostly the poor... but lets ignore that too.

He prevented the deregulation of the public universities, ensureing low priced higher education (including the very highly esteemed UT/A&M schools)... helping mostly the poor... but lets ignore that too.

During his term Texas became second only to Silicone Valley in IT industries, bringing in billions of high paying jobs... but lets ignore that too.

.. I could go on...

Bush is extreamly popular here in Texas, if it was so bad under him he wouldnt have been elected an unheard of 4 consecutive terms for the Governor, nor elected by the state by a landslide.
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Old 06-22-2004, 04:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quiet you! Facts have no place in the 24/7 Bushbash Extravaganza!

Besides, if the liberals are attacking his record as governor, it means they've figured out that they can't touch his presidential record.

Speaking of records, how about that Kerry? At least he's shown some consistency in one thing: Raising taxes. Other than that, I can't figure out what he actually stands for.

I keep waiting to here this at the end of one of his campaign commercials:

"I'm John Kerry, and I actually did authorize this message, before I didn't authorize it."
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Old 06-22-2004, 08:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seaver
Well he HAS to be popular, considering he's the only Governor in Texas to be elected 4 consecutive times.. but lets choose to ignore that.
Ummm....am I wrong or was Bush elected to TWO four-year terms? Your timeline has him being elected in the late 80's.

Last edited by cthulu23; 06-22-2004 at 08:29 PM..
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Old 06-22-2004, 11:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Well this is going nowhere fast, let's see if someone can resurrect it.

Oh, and let's keep the overzealous sarcasm (aka trolling) to a minimum, shall we?

Thaaaaaaaanks.

-analog.
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Old 06-23-2004, 01:41 AM   #15 (permalink)
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my observations, sarcasm free but with added cynicism
1) nothing is so bad that it just can't get any worse
2) I'm almost starting to feel sorry for Bush
3) why didn't they mention www.whitehouse.org and www.whitehouse.com ?
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Old 06-23-2004, 04:38 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by apeman
why didn't they mention www.whitehouse.org and www.whitehouse.com ?
Well, first of all that's not really related to the story. Those domains are already gone and the story was about being smart in your domain grabs when you announce candidacy. Second, there's nothing anyone could do anyway; government websites always have the .gov TLD and anyone who doesn't know that is going to get an eyeful of porn.
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Old 06-23-2004, 06:31 AM   #17 (permalink)
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That site is not as funny as it could be, but this was pretty good:

"Several of the world’s poorest nations have asked the United States to initiate military campaigns in their countries in a desperate attempt to cash in on lucrative reconstruction money from the US. Citizens in at least eight developing nations welcome a US attack and occupation with the promise of clean water, electricity, and health care. "

I hope Bush doesn't pull a Clinton on this guy, lest his friends never see him again.
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Old 06-23-2004, 06:32 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seaver
Well he HAS to be popular, considering he's the only Governor in Texas to be elected 4 consecutive times.. but lets choose to ignore that.

He prevented the passing of a state income tax, helping greatly those that dont own land... mostly the poor... but lets ignore that too.

He prevented the deregulation of the public universities, ensureing low priced higher education (including the very highly esteemed UT/A&M schools)... helping mostly the poor... but lets ignore that too.

During his term Texas became second only to Silicone Valley in IT industries, bringing in billions of high paying jobs... but lets ignore that too.

.. I could go on...

Bush is extreamly popular here in Texas, if it was so bad under him he wouldnt have been elected an unheard of 4 consecutive terms for the Governor, nor elected by the state by a landslide.

The education system was NOT improved all around. I know several Texas families who removed their children from school and now homeschol- and have since bush was in office. Waht I am told is that as long as you were white and Christian he did a GREAT job. If you were a minority- then it was not as good. yes he had some accomplishments- but I have been told the damage outweighed the benefit. I will have to get ahold of my Texas friends for the details... They are poor Native Americans....
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Old 06-23-2004, 06:51 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kalis Enigma
The education system was NOT improved all around. I know several Texas families who removed their children from school and now homeschol- and have since bush was in office. Waht I am told is that as long as you were white and Christian he did a GREAT job. If you were a minority- then it was not as good. yes he had some accomplishments- but I have been told the damage outweighed the benefit. I will have to get ahold of my Texas friends for the details... They are poor Native Americans....
Interesting that he got a hell of a lot of Hispanic support. But nevermind. He's only interested in helping white Christians got it.
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Old 06-23-2004, 07:12 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hwed
Quiet you! Facts have no place in the 24/7 Bushbash Extravaganza!

Besides, if the liberals are attacking his record as governor, it means they've figured out that they can't touch his presidential record.

Speaking of records, how about that Kerry? At least he's shown some consistency in one thing: Raising taxes. Other than that, I can't figure out what he actually stands for.

I keep waiting to here this at the end of one of his campaign commercials:

"I'm John Kerry, and I actually did authorize this message, before I didn't authorize it."
PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH REFUSED TO PROVIDE ANY
RESPONSES TO CITIZENS ON ISSUES THROUGH THE
NATIONAL POLITICAL AWARENESS TEST


PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH REFUSED TO PROVIDE THIS INFORMATION WHEN ASKED TO DO SO ON 23 SEPARATE OCCASIONS BY:
http://www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?can_id=CNIP9043
So didn't kerry. Hmmm....

bush has changed his mind and stance and aweful lot as well:
http://www.ontheissues.org/George_W__Bush.htm

Restore consumer confidence with tax cuts & new oil supplies. (Mar 2001) (anyone else notice a coincidence here? )

Too much government spending will end prosperity. (Nov 2000)
$46B in new spending on health, education, & defense. (Apr 2000)

Bush claims gay tolerance but record differs. (Oct 2000)
Tolerance & equal rights, not gay marriage & special rights. (Oct 2000)
No gay adoptions; but listens to gay GOP group. (Apr 2000)
Against gay marriage, but leave it to the states. (Feb 2000)
No gays in Boy Scouts. (Aug 1999)
Hate-crime rules don’t apply to gays. (Jul 1999)

TX test score improvements not reflected on national tests. (Oct 2000)

Weaken Clean Air; no comment on Clean Water. (Nov 2000)
Clear Skies Initiative improves air quality now. (Aug 2003)

There are some good things there as well. I just want to illustrate that ALL politicians are guilty of changing their stance as public opinion sways...
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Old 06-23-2004, 07:14 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by onetime2
Interesting that he got a hell of a lot of Hispanic support. But nevermind. He's only interested in helping white Christians got it.
As I said- this was the opinion of a Native American living in New Boston texas. Her family suffered under bush.
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Old 06-23-2004, 07:27 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by choskins
I hope Bush doesn't pull a Clinton on this guy, lest his friends never see him again.
What is that supposed to mean?
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Old 06-23-2004, 08:15 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kadath
Well, first of all that's not really related to the story. Those domains are already gone and the story was about being smart in your domain grabs when you announce candidacy. Second, there's nothing anyone could do anyway; government websites always have the .gov TLD and anyone who doesn't know that is going to get an eyeful of porn.
yeah ok, my mind is a bit tangential today I'd best go and have a beer, that'll sort me out
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Old 06-23-2004, 09:19 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrSelfDestruct
What is that supposed to mean?
It's the whole "Clinton Coverup Theory". The one where they supposedly count bodies and come up with a whole bunch of people "who knew too much" dying before they do any damage to Clinton's political career.

Nothing really to it just more conspiracy theory political drivel.
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Old 06-23-2004, 09:34 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by onetime2
It's the whole "Clinton Coverup Theory". The one where they supposedly count bodies and come up with a whole bunch of people "who knew too much" dying before they do any damage to Clinton's political career.

Nothing really too it just more conspiracy theory political drivel.
You are right. Actually, though, I just meant it as a joke!
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Old 06-23-2004, 09:42 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by choskins
You are right. Actually, though, I just meant it as a joke!
Yep that's how I took it.
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Old 06-23-2004, 09:56 AM   #27 (permalink)
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/offtopic-rant on

I absolutely despise domain squatters. They are the lowest form of life and should be executed by friendly Arab terrorists. For someone to buy up hundreds of freely available domains for $10 a pop and then expect others to pay $64,000 or more for them is disgusting. Never fear, though, celebrities and multinational corporations can get whatever domain they want by going through WIPO.
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Old 06-23-2004, 09:59 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Uh...while I agree that domain squatters are suckass, I think suggesting they be executed by friendly Arab terrorists makes you look incredibly stupid and ignorant.
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Old 06-25-2004, 08:29 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I wanted to reply regarding Bush as Gov. of Texas. Many people in Austin and around the state recall his terms so fondly because he got along so well with the Democratic legislature, and the very powerful Democrat Lt. Gov., in particular.

Yes, the environmental numbers were worse following his terms, but that had very little to do with his enviromental policies, but could be directly attributed to the growth in population and industry in Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio that occurred during his years as governor. Yes, he was good for business, but that brought jobs and money to people, and tax dollars for our schools.

My wife is a teacher, and most teachers were strongly against his education reforms, but that was, in my opinion, because teachers were afraid of accountability. Yes, they "teach to the test" now, but the test ensures that every kid can read before they're promoted. (Hence, "no child left behind") His top 10% rule for state schools, while also criticized by above average kids and parents in nice suburbs, is a very logical, so-far successful, and objective alternative to affirmative action in admissions that continues to this day. He knew he could count on the votes of these same above average suburban kids' parents, and rather than pander to them, did something unpopular among his base of supporters that was good for minorities and rural kids.

Not only was he successful in preventing a proposed state income tax -see the growth in pop. and jobs- but his proposed property tax reform would have made the state's tax collection far more fair (though unpopular), and he fought a good fight only to have it defeated in the legislature.

He took criticism for vetoeing hate crime legislation when he ran against Gore, but, perhaps coached improperly for the debates, did not do as good a job of explaining why then as he did at the time. (remember the goofy comments about how we killed the guys that dragged James Byrd to death?) He artfully dodged a debate about minority interests and explained that if you murder someone or beat someone up, it's wrong and already against the law. To have prosecutors become mind readers won't do any good, and the punishments in Texas for violently breaking the law are plenty adequate.

Remnants of his ideas on normalizing and legitimizing the mexican emigration problem were, for the most part, killed with the heightened security after 9/11, but it was another shining example of good policy that was a little bit counter to traditional conservative thinking. I regret that it never came to fruition. Ironically, he had probably more foriegn policy experience than any other governor, and his relations with Mexico were better then than they are now.

Just ask anyone involved in Texas politics, and you'll hear much the same thing. How good Bush was back then, how bad the current TX gov. is, (though both Republican, Bush never really got along with him and when he was running for Lt. Gov., did not endorse him until embarassingly late in the campaign.) and finally how Bush the pres. is very different from Bush the Gov.
Just writing this has reminded me how disappointed I have been at times with Bush, but I will still support him as the lesser of two evils.

To the angry anti-Bush crowd:
Please don't let your current anger at the president allow you to spin his entire record as negative, when you are really just upset by his recent actions, because you will lose some credibility with me and many Texans that wonder what Washington does to some people.

Now back on topic, internet domain squatters are irritating, I agree.
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Old 06-25-2004, 08:37 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I can't let what you said about education in Texas to stand. Bush royally screwed education in that state for years and is on his way to messing it up for the entire nation now. The Houston area schools also had some of the highest dropout rates in the nation. And there was coverup associated with that so that people wouldn't know just how bad the dropout rate was.

And here it is, here is the "Texas Miracle"

http://www.rethinkingschools.org/arc.../drop181.shtml
Quote:
Robert Kimball, an assistant principal at Sharpstown High School, sat smack in the middle of the "Texas miracle." His poor, mostly minority high school of 1,650 students had a freshman class of 1,000 that dwindled to fewer than 300 students by senior year. And yet — and this is the miracle — not one dropout to report!

Nor was zero an unusual dropout rate in this school district that both President Bush and Secretary of Education Rod Paige have held up as the national showcase for accountability and the model for the federal No Child Left Behind law. Westside High here had 2,308 students and no reported dropouts; Wheatley High 731 students, no dropouts. A dozen of the city's poorest schools reported dropout rates under one percent.

Now, Dr. Kimball has witnessed many amazing things in his 58 years. Before he was an educator, he spent 24 years in the Army, fighting in Vietnam, rising to the rank of lieutenant colonel and touring the world. But never had he seen an urban high school with no dropouts. "Impossible," he said. "Someone will get pregnant, go to jail, get killed." Elsewhere in the nation, urban high schools report dropout rates of 20 percent to 40 percent.

A miracle? "A fantasy land," said Dr. Kimball. "They want the data to look wonderful and exciting. They don't tell you how to do it; they just say, 'Do it.'" In February, with the help of Dr. Kimball, the local television station KHOU broke the news that Sharpstown High had falsified its dropout data. That led to a state audit of 16 Houston schools, which found that of 5,500 teenagers surveyed who had left school, 3,000 should have been counted as dropouts but were not. (Superbelt Editorial Comment, HOLY SHIT! 54% dropout rate!) In early August, the state appointed a monitor to oversee the district's data collection and downgraded 14 audited schools to the state's lowest rating.

Not very miraculous sounding, but here is the intriguing question: How did it get to the point that veteran principals felt they could actually claim zero dropouts? "You need to understand the atmosphere in Houston," Dr. Kimball said. "People are afraid. The superintendent has frequent meetings with principals. Before they go in, the principals are really, really scared. Panicky. They have to make their numbers."

Pressure? Some compare it to working under the old Soviet system of five-year plans. In January, just before the scandal broke, Abelardo Saavedra, deputy superintendent, unveiled Houston's latest mandates for the new year. "The districtwide student attendance rate will increase from 94.6 percent to 95 percent," he wrote. "The districtwide annual dropout rate will decrease from 1.5 percent to 1.3 percent."

Dropouts are notoriously difficult to track, particularly at a heavily Latino school like Sharpstown, with immigrants going back and forth to Mexico. Dr. Kimball said that Sharpstown shared one truant officer with several schools. Even so, Houston officials would not allow principals to write that the whereabouts of a departed student were "unknown." Last fall, Margaret Stroud, deputy superintendent, sent a memorandum warning principals to "make sure that you do not have any students coded '99,' whereabouts unknown." Too many "unknowns," she wrote, could prompt a state audit — the last thing Houston leaders wanted.

A shortage of resources to track departing students? No "unknowns" allowed? What to do? "Make it up," Dr. Kimball said. "The principals who survive are the yes men."

As for those who fail to make their numbers, it is termination time, one of many innovations championed by Dr. Paige as superintendent here from 1994 to 2001. He got rid of tenure for principals and mandated that they sign one-year contracts that allowed dismissal "without cause" and without a hearing.

On the other hand, for principals who make their numbers, it is bonus time. Principals can earn a $5,000 bonus, district administrators up to $20,000. At Sharpstown High alone, Dr. Kimball said, $75,000 in bonus money was issued last year, before the fictitious numbers were exposed.

Dr. Paige's spokesman, Dan Langan, referred dropout questions to Houston officials, but said that the secretary was proud of the accountability system he established here, that it got results and that principals freely signed those contracts.

Terry Abbott, a Houston district spokesman, agreed that both Dr. Paige and the current superintendent, Kaye Stripling, pressured principals to make district goals. "Secretary Paige said, and rightfully so, the public has a right to expect us to get this job done," Mr. Abbott said. The principals were not cowed, he said, declaring, "They thrive on it." Every administrator under Dr. Paige and Dr. Stripling, Mr. Abbott said, has understood "failure is not an option" and "that failure to do our jobs can mean that we could lose those jobs — and that's exactly the way it should be."

As for adequate resources for truant officers to verify dropouts, he said individual schools decided how to use their resources, but added, "Money is not the problem, and money by itself won't solve the issues we deal with every day."

To skeptics like Dr. Kimball, the parallels to No Child Left Behind are depressing. The federal law mandates that every child in America pass reading and math proficiency tests by 2014 — a goal many educators believe is as impossible as zero dropouts. And like Houston's dropout program, President Bush's education budget has been criticized as an underfinanced mandate, proposing $12 billion this year for Title 1, $6 billion below what the No Child Left Behind law permits. "This isn't about educating children," Dr. Kimball said. "It's about public relations."

If Houston officials were interested in accountability, he said, they would assign him to a high school to monitor the dropout data that he has come to understand so well. Instead, after he blew the whistle on Sharpstown High, he was reassigned, for four months, to sit in a windowless room with no work to do. More recently, he has been serving as the second assistant principal at a primary school, where, he said, he is not really needed. "I expect when my contract is up next January, I'll be fired," he said. "That's how it works here."

Last edited by Superbelt; 06-25-2004 at 08:40 AM..
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Old 06-25-2004, 08:43 AM   #31 (permalink)
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
 
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Additionally, because of NCLB, schools across the country now strategically hold back children in the critical grades that they know can't pass the mandated testing. Not summer school, just hold them out of that grade. Sometimes held back two or three years and then if they still aren't proficient they leapfrog them over that grade to bypass the test all together.

It's not accountability, it's shifty, criminal accounting.
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Old 06-28-2004, 05:23 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Yes, there was quite a scandal in Houston ISD. Gov. Bush was not the superintendent, nor was he directly involved. Teachers and administrators don't like accountability, and I'm sure that some buckled under pressure and cooked the numbers or cheated. It's the same as in any business, just that educators are not used to it. All I know is that at the mostly hispanic elementary school where my wife taught, there was more stress and pressure on the teachers, but that the kids(most of whom knew english as a 2nd language) started slowly but steadily improving, and that they could all read. They may not have gotten the enrichment provided by building models of volcanoes anymore, but dammit, they learned to read and do math, and they'll be better for it in the long run. This has gotten way off topic, but quoting some article about a Houston ISD scandal doesn't prove anything, or even effectively argue, against the no child left behind school reforms of Bush when he was governor of Texas.
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Old 06-28-2004, 05:31 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dy156
This has gotten way off topic, but quoting some article about a Houston ISD scandal doesn't prove anything, or even effectively argue, against the no child left behind school reforms of Bush when he was governor of Texas.
Yes , it has veered far from topic.

But,....yes it does.
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