O.K., it really has gone too far - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ShaniFaye · 08-02-2004, 07:44 AM

the hate I see in some of the political forums is the exact reason I choose not to post in "discussions" concerning politics. Yes both sides are guilty of it and I've never understood it...you can support your side and at the same time NOT "hate" on the other side. It comes down to preferences.....if you prefer miracle whip to mayonaise or vise versa do you HATE the people that make the one you dont like, it may sound like a comparison that doesnt make sense but to me the principal is the same....you have two choices...you prefer one of the other...that doesnt mean you have to hate the other choice or for that matter, the people who chose it.

cthulu23 · 08-02-2004, 07:51 AM

Although we are in the midst of an increadibly polarized political climate, I think that the term "hate" is being thrown about a bit too readily. If I criticize Bush in an illogical or immature way, does that necessarily equate with hatred? I think that the entire perception of "hate speech" as it applies to the presidential election is probably based more on Republican spin than actual "hate." I may be splitting hairs here, but, political debates may frequently be over-heated and vitriolic, but they rarely break down into sincere hatred of the other side (excepting bigots and maniacs, as always).

SinisterMotives · 08-02-2004, 08:29 AM

That's a good point, Cthulu. The word "hate" is certainly being overused on both sides to try to shame those who disagree with one's opinions into silence.

onetime2 · 08-02-2004, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cthulu23
Although we are in the midst of an increadibly polarized political climate, I think that the term "hate" is being thrown about a bit too readily. If I criticize Bush in an illogical or immature way, does that necessarily equate with hatred? I think that the entire perception of "hate speech" as it applies to the presidential election is probably based more on Republican spin than actual "hate." I may be splitting hairs here, but, political debates may frequently be over-heated and vitriolic, but they rarely break down into sincere hatred of the other side (excepting bigots and maniacs, as always).

I don't know about the supposed "Republican spin", I just know the behaviors that I see from both sides. If it's not hate then I don't know what else to call it. There was certainly a fair amount of hate going the opposite direction in the Clinton years and I don't hesitate to call it that. Certainly some people disapproved of his behaviors while others absolutely hated the man (and his wife and everyone associated with them apparently).

Personally I don't hate any politicians. I honestly can't say I hate anyone at this point in time. To deny that there are "haters" on both sides of the aisle is BS, IMO.

The tough part is weeding out the "haters" from those who are representative of their parties. In this particular campaign it's very difficult to distinguish the haters from non-haters on the Democratic side when every other day you hear ridiculous accusations against the President being focused on rather than the issues that really matter. To quote cthulu23 from the thread about Bush pressuring Pakistan to deliver high value terrorist targets before the election, "when do you say enough"?

cthulu23 · 08-02-2004, 10:13 AM

I'm not denying that it goes both ways, as many of my other posts will indicate. I only brought up Republican spin because of the recent popularity of the term "hate speech" in the Republican lexicon.

While I can't deny that there are many "haters" out there in the hip-hop sense, my personal definition of hate excludes most political vitriol. Hate can drive someone to kill and, like love, is deeply personal. That's just my definition, of course.

KMA-628 · 08-02-2004, 10:38 AM

The "Bush = Hitler" comment on this forum was hate, pure and simple--indefensible IMO.

Name calling will always be there, but to equate these two people is just asinine. Conservatives can call the liberals names and vice versa, but equating anyone to Hitler is crossing the line.

There are people who could be compared to Hitler, Bush is not one of them and to do so severly dilutes any argument.

cthulu23 · 08-02-2004, 11:16 AM

The Hitler/Bush equation may be stupid and untrue, but whether or not it constitutes hate depends on the intention and feeling of the speaker. Hyperbole does not always equal hate.

KMA-628 · 08-02-2004, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Bush is the next Hitler.

same person then goes on to say....

Quote:

He's the Antichrist

Different thread (re: the ad where Bush throws Hitlers comments back to moveon.org)

Quote:

Doesn't surprise me Bush will stop at nothing to win. And what's sad is HE IS FUCKING DESTROYING THE COUNTRY BY HIS DIVISION OF THE PEOPLE AND PLAYING PARTISAN POLITICS WITH NO MORALS AND NO SCRUPLES. A VOTE FOR BUSH IS A VOTE TO APPROVE THESE KINDS OF ADS.

Sorry lost it there. I hate Bush

This one is more subtle

Quote:

Could "they" be the reason for human conflict? Saddam Hussein, perhaps Hitler, Stalin.... President Bush? They create conflict to watch how we kill each other off laughing as if they were watching a boxing match.

And again

Quote:

If Bush wins again the US will become Germany in the 1930's.

There's more but why go on?

I didn't sense any hyperbole. The sentiment the posters wanted to get across was very clear to me. No little smileys to infer that one was exaggerating.

And yes, you could probably search this forum and find equally hateful things said by conservatives about liberals (Note: you won't find one by me, though).

I point these out because they were the most obvious to me because of the side of the fence I am on.

If I were to step away from this forum and think about the feelings that stood out to me about regarding Bush, I would be left with a feeling of hate. Are there other things posted here that are more intelligent? Sure. This stuff just stands out and leaves an impression.

Regardless of the political leaning. I want to see more of "this is why you should vote for my guy" rather than this stuff. I understand it is wishfull thining though.

08-02-2004, 07:44 AM	#41 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	the hate I see in some of the political forums is the exact reason I choose not to post in "discussions" concerning politics. Yes both sides are guilty of it and I've never understood it...you can support your side and at the same time NOT "hate" on the other side. It comes down to preferences.....if you prefer miracle whip to mayonaise or vise versa do you HATE the people that make the one you dont like, it may sound like a comparison that doesnt make sense but to me the principal is the same....you have two choices...you prefer one of the other...that doesnt mean you have to hate the other choice or for that matter, the people who chose it. __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

08-02-2004, 07:51 AM	#42 (permalink)
cthulu23 Banned	Although we are in the midst of an increadibly polarized political climate, I think that the term "hate" is being thrown about a bit too readily. If I criticize Bush in an illogical or immature way, does that necessarily equate with hatred? I think that the entire perception of "hate speech" as it applies to the presidential election is probably based more on Republican spin than actual "hate." I may be splitting hairs here, but, political debates may frequently be over-heated and vitriolic, but they rarely break down into sincere hatred of the other side (excepting bigots and maniacs, as always). Last edited by cthulu23; 08-02-2004 at 07:57 AM..

08-02-2004, 10:38 AM	#46 (permalink)
KMA-628 ....is off his meds...you were warned. Location: The Wild Wild West	The "Bush = Hitler" comment on this forum was hate, pure and simple--indefensible IMO. Name calling will always be there, but to equate these two people is just asinine. Conservatives can call the liberals names and vice versa, but equating anyone to Hitler is crossing the line. There are people who could be compared to Hitler, Bush is not one of them and to do so severly dilutes any argument. __________________ Before you criticize someone, you need to walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get angry at you.......you're a mile away.......and they're barefoot.

08-02-2004, 08:29 AM	#43 (permalink)
SinisterMotives Junkie	That's a good point, Cthulu. The word "hate" is certainly being overused on both sides to try to shame those who disagree with one's opinions into silence.

08-02-2004, 10:13 AM	#45 (permalink)
cthulu23 Banned	I'm not denying that it goes both ways, as many of my other posts will indicate. I only brought up Republican spin because of the recent popularity of the term "hate speech" in the Republican lexicon. While I can't deny that there are many "haters" out there in the hip-hop sense, my personal definition of hate excludes most political vitriol. Hate can drive someone to kill and, like love, is deeply personal. That's just my definition, of course.

08-02-2004, 11:16 AM	#47 (permalink)
cthulu23 Banned	The Hitler/Bush equation may be stupid and untrue, but whether or not it constitutes hate depends on the intention and feeling of the speaker. Hyperbole does not always equal hate.