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Old 07-31-2004, 02:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
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What would a Badnarik U.S. look like in 4?

What would the US be like with the libertarian direction? I’m personally one that respects and appreciates the freedom Americans have. Whether it’s a Republican or Democrat in office anyone and everyone has the ability to create whatever self-made financial empire they choose to create. It boils down to one element; INTENTION; and 99% isn’t enough.
With that being said; this thread touches on multiple elements that could have there own threads. I’m interested to hear what people’s predictions are on where America (and perhaps the world) would go if doctrines such as these were put into place.
My road has led me to a mindset that I’ve had to just accept. I generally wont post much in the threads (except those dealing with the Holy Land) because I know most would tell me to take it over to the paranoia area. To sum up my view in a nutshell- both main parties are merely two football teams that have a win/lose relationship that bounces back in forth in the form of minor moral ideation tweaks. At the end of the day the NFL isn’t concerned with the outcome because it profits either way. It’s my belief the parasitic society (as I call them) have a “one for you- one; two for me) establishment merely because of who they are- not from what they contribute. That’s not a spiritual or metaphysical area or even a conspiracy theory in my eyes; just a reality.
Outside of minor tax modifications that will fluctuate in moderate time blocks; and general populous arguments that will never be compromised like abortion; Americans are generally free. So why question it. Why go against the grain and have a frustrating life, why not accept the way things are and be OK with being a slave that has the freedom to create as much wealth as one intends to. Or just go be a hermit in the hills. (the slavery is another thread- I know)
I see the libertarian party as being a mix of 1 and 2.
To refrain from turning this into a total rant; I’ll just move one to some issues posted at their site
http://www.badnarik.org/



Why should African-Americans support Badnarik / Campagna?
• Repeal federal regulations that prevent African Americans from starting their own businesses
• End the War on Drugs which targets young black men
• End taxes so African Americans have the resources to invest and start businesses and provide their children with quality education.
• Opposes racial profiling
• Advocates the right to keep and bear arms so that African Americans can defend themselves where police response is inadequate.



Why do Badnarik and Campagna deserve the support of Christians?
• Parents will be able to choose what kind of education and training their children will receive.
• We will ensure that churches are allowed to fulfill their mission without interference.
• We will keep the federal government out of state and local decisions and policies.
• We will ensure economic liberty, which belongs to all individuals and their families by divine right, eliminating federal withholding taxes and any other government devices to rob people of the fruits of their honest labor.
• Each family will have the ability to protect itself against criminals or the trickery of politicians.
• We will work together with you, not just for peace and security, but for your God given right to live your life according to your faith, expressing your beliefs openly without fear of reprisal.
• We will ensure that our federal government abides by the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.



Why should Greens/ environmentalists support Badnarik/ Campagna?
• Strict polluter pays policies
• Eliminate EPA permits to pollute
• Rescind sovereign immunity for government polluters
• Hold both government and corporate polluters responsible and individually liable
• Turn control of federally owned parklands over to environmental groups (like the Nature Conservancy) after securing legal agreements to preserve and protect them
• Eliminate competition destroying approval processes for companies developing alternative fuels and recycled products
• End all subsidies to oil companies and timber companies



Why should gays support Badnarik/ Campagna?
• Marriage is a contract between individuals in which government should not interfere. Michael Badnarik supports the right of all individuals to enter into contracts of their choosing. As President, he will oppose and veto any federal legislative attempt to prohibit gay marriage.
• Marriage is a religious commitment in which the government has no place
• Lifestyle is an individual right
• AIDS patients should be able to choose for themselves to use experimental medications or marijuana without interference from the FDA or DEA
• Government should not interfere with, or prevent companies from offering benefits to same sex couples



Why should gun owners support Badnarik/Campagna?
• No compromise support of the individuals' right to keep and bear arms
• Advocates and will seek to repeal all unconstitutional gun laws
• Understands that law-abiding gun owners are vital to our nations freedom and self-defense
• Opposes the renewal of the "defense" weapons ban (aka the "assault weapons ban")



Why do Badnarik and Campagna deserve the support of Latinos?
• Eliminate federal withholding taxes
• Eliminate restriction on work permits
• Eliminate federal governments ability to arrest and hold Latinos without due process
• We will ensure economic liberty, which belongs to all individuals and their families by divine right, eliminating federal withholding taxes and restrictions on work permits. The fruits of all honest labor will remain in the hands of its owners.
• We know that most Latinos come to the United States to work hard and provide a better life for themselves and their families. This is to be admired and encouraged.
• We will eliminate INS harassment of law abiding Latinos.
• Parents will be able to choose what kind of education and training their children will receive.
• We will encourage trade with all Spanish speaking countries. VP candidate Richard Campagna is fluent in Spanish and will conduct business negotiations with Latin nations directly.
• Each family will have the ability to protect itself against criminals or the trickery of politicians. We will eliminate the federal government's ability to arrest and hold Latinos without due constitutional process.
• We will work together with you for your peace and security.
• We will ensure that our federal government abides by the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.



Why should medical marijuana advocates support Badnarik / Campagna?
• By executive order on the first day in office President Badnarik will instruct the DEA to cease the persecution of medical marijuana users
• Will advocate that all states legalize medical marijuana
• Will pardon all persons incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses
• Will begin a policy of dismantling the insane War on Drugs and establish policies that take drug abuse out of the realm of law enforcement and place it in the realm of a health problem- where it belongs



Why should the military support Badnarik / Campagna?
• Supports maintaining a strong military-for purposes of defense of the United States
• Veterans benefits and military pay — This is one of the few areas wherein spending should increase. Those who have served our country should be fairly compensated for their service, and their medical benefits should be the best available. There is no excuse for providing less than adequate services to those who have put their lives on the line to defend our country
• Strictly volunteer military—no draft—and none should be needed if our engagements are limited to defense and our military compensation is commensurate with the private sector



Why should members of the Natural Law Party support Badnarik/ Campagna?
• Break the strangle-hold of the two party system
• Michael Badnarik is a graduate of a program that was based in TM. He meditates daily and understands and uses scientific solutions
• Fully supports the peace initiatives advocated by www.uspeacegovernment.org, and applauds their innovative approach to creating a peaceful society.
Why should police officers support Badnarik/ Campagna?
• All law enforcement is local, treason and counterfeiting are the only true federal crimes
• Eliminate federal crime laws- allow state and local police departments to do their jobs
• Repeal federal gun laws- local and state governments to set their own policies
• End the War on Drugs allowing law enforcement to pursue real criminals
Why should Pro-Choice support Badnarik/ Campagna?
• Will veto any legislation restricting a woman's right to choose
• Opposes government control over abortion



Why should Pro-Life support Badnarik/ Campagna?
• Streamline the adoption process—get government out of the way of the best solution to unwanted pregnancy
• Oppose tax funding for abortion
• Oppose federal mandates that require companies provide abortion as a health care benefit
• Oppose government control over the abortion issue*
• I believe that giving the government control of this issue could lead to more abortions rather than less, because the left-right pendulum of power swings back and forth. This shift could place the power to set policy in the hands of those who demand strict population control. The government that can ban abortion can just as easily mandate abortion, as is currently the case in China.


Why should members of the Reform Party support Badnarik/ Campagna?
• The first viable third party candidate since Ross Perot
• Michael Badnarik is a Constitution scholar
• Eliminate deficit spending now
• Veto any unbalanced budget
• Eliminate corporate welfare
• Break the strangle-hold of the two party system
• Establish a hard currency system
• Dissolve the federal reserve
• Withdraw from the United Nations and evict them

I used to wonder why this party never went into great depth of foreign policy. Esentially thats the door that those with power either wont walk through or wouldnt dare. When the abolishment of the IRS is being mentioned; foreign policy will be directly effected. Whether beneficial or harmful is a complex in and of itself.

Where do you think this country would go if we had 8 years of this type of leadership? It’s the views I’m focusing on; not the men themselves- their resumes aren’t that impressive to me for presidential candidates. Mainly because I feel any potential person should have served some form of military active duty. (That’s just MO)
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Old 07-31-2004, 09:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Honestly, I doubt that much would happen. Congress would be essentially the same, and depending on what the parties decide, may rather fight the president and kill the third-party then risk losing their power.

Unless Congress changes, I seriously doubt much else would.
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Old 07-31-2004, 10:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by djtestudo
Honestly, I doubt that much would happen. Congress would be essentially the same, and depending on what the parties decide, may rather fight the president and kill the third-party then risk losing their power.

Unless Congress changes, I seriously doubt much else would.
Do you mean in such a way in having third party reps to start getting elected into seats?

Theres a common complaint about how theres only 2 parties to choose from, and yet the vote of the people continue to empower the 2 choices. Not to mention the abolishment of the IRS would be a drastic change.
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Old 07-31-2004, 12:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sun Tzu
Do you mean in such a way in having third party reps to start getting elected into seats?

Theres a common complaint about how theres only 2 parties to choose from, and yet the vote of the people continue to empower the 2 choices. Not to mention the abolishment of the IRS would be a drastic change.
I mean that the two party system helps both sides. A true active third-party could hurt the two parties a lot.

Because a lot of what you are proposing would have to go through Congress, unless there is a significant presence of third-party members there, nothing like that would get done. The two parties would not cooporate.

Now, if after two years of that congressmen start losing their elections to third-party members, then there would likely be progress.

It would be almost impossible, in my mind, for a third-party/independent candidate to be a successful President due to the Congress.
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Old 07-31-2004, 01:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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i think they are waisting their money each time they run for president. it is money they could be spending to try and senators and congressmen elected. that is where the power, for the moment, lies in the third parties. they need to start small run for mayor of large cities and governer, they need to be widespread in the system before they take on the big dog. you don't take the top man without a support structure and that means some votes in the republic. they would weild imense power if they could just stop demecrats of republicans from controling the house or senate. that is where the immediate power comes from and to make a sucessful third party thats where they need to be.

Alex
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Old 07-31-2004, 01:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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i will vote for anyone, by the way, that says they will take away speed limits.

just a thought
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Old 07-31-2004, 02:45 PM   #7 (permalink)
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A Libertarian President at this point in time would be able to accomplish very very little during his four years simply because of the lack of LP members in the Congress. The Libertarian Party is currently working its way up as is necessary by acquiring lower level local government positions and climbing to higher level positions. If a third of the Congress were LP and we had a LP President, things could actually get done with the help of the more conservative Republicans.
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Old 07-31-2004, 03:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by djtestudo
I mean that the two party system helps both sides. A true active third-party could hurt the two parties a lot.

Because a lot of what you are proposing would have to go through Congress, unless there is a significant presence of third-party members there, nothing like that would get done. The two parties would not cooporate.

Now, if after two years of that congressmen start losing their elections to third-party members, then there would likely be progress.

It would be almost impossible, in my mind, for a third-party/independent candidate to be a successful President due to the Congress.
All it takes is citizens who have the courage to ask for it. The Republican party splashed into existance against all odds, basically obliterating the formerly powerful Whig party. The people who voted Republican weren't nay-sayers, they were doers and they fought for what they believed in. The more we voters have the courage to do that, the more people who don't will learn that there are people who agree with them and also have the courage to do the same. This is how change is brought.
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Old 07-31-2004, 07:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SecretMethod70
All it takes is citizens who have the courage to ask for it. The Republican party splashed into existance against all odds, basically obliterating the formerly powerful Whig party. The people who voted Republican weren't nay-sayers, they were doers and they fought for what they believed in. The more we voters have the courage to do that, the more people who don't will learn that there are people who agree with them and also have the courage to do the same. This is how change is brought.
That isn't exactly true.

The Whig Party was already dead in 1854, when the Republican Party was founded. The Republicans at first were mostly former Whigs who were anti-slavery and pro-union, along with a coalition of small third parties with those beliefs. The only reason for their quick rise was the political turmiol of the years leading to the 1860 election, when Lincoln won the presidency and caused the southern states to secede.

You are right about the second part though. All it takes are people who believe in the party.

My point, however, was that Congress would need to be controlled before any third-party president would have real success in office.
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Old 07-31-2004, 11:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The only thing preventing the rise of a third (or fourth, or fifth) party in america is the perception that such a thing is impossible. This is a textbook example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Old 07-31-2004, 11:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cthulu23
The only thing preventing the rise of a third (or fourth, or fifth) party in america is the perception that such a thing is impossible. This is a textbook example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Having Democrats block you at every turn in the courts to try to keep third parties off of the ballot probably helps to quell the uprising of the unwashed masses.
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Last edited by seretogis; 07-31-2004 at 11:37 PM..
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Old 08-01-2004, 12:09 AM   #12 (permalink)
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So far, the manipulation of Nader's campaign has been pretty blatant, with both major parties attempting to influence it's progress. Of course, this only confirms what Ralph has been saying all along about American politics.

http://votenader.com/media_press/index.php?cid=123

Quote:
The Nader Campaign has also made it clear that it is not seeking the support of the Republican Party in its ballot access signature drive. There has been no communication with the Republican Party nationally or locally or with any Republican Party officials. "Our preference would be for both parties to stay out of our independent presidential campaign," concluded Nader.
Although Republicans may find it politcally advantageous to circumspectly support Nader, they have no greater interest in the growth of strong third parties than the Democrats do. No one likes competiton.
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Old 08-01-2004, 12:20 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cthulu23
Although Republicans may find it politcally advantageous to circumspectly support Nader, they have no greater interest in the growth of strong third parties than the Democrats do. No one likes competiton.
Right now, I see Republicans trying to get a third party candidate on the ballot and Democrats trying to keep them off. I'd like to see a documented instance of Republicans attempting to block an LP or Independant candidate from being on the ballot. Until such evidence is presented, I must conclude that Democrats have no problem with limiting the choices of the American people -- which makes sense considering the Democrat's stance on Education and Health Care.
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Old 08-01-2004, 12:54 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The motive for getting Nader on the ballot is just as important as the act itself. Notice that Nader addressed unwelcome Republican intrusions ion his candidacy in the previous statement. The Republicans that have supported Nader are not interested in his ideology...they are only interested in Nader's ability to leech votes from Kerry. Let's not pretend that there's any high minded purpose here.

If you want to to talk about "limiting choice," let's talk about gay marriage or mandatory minimum sentences. Perhaps limiting choice is not the exclusice domain of the Democratic party.
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Old 08-01-2004, 06:07 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The abortion thing's the biggest reason why I'm choosing Bush over Badnarik, though it's not the only one. Some of the points in that section are good ones, but it's not enough, and the last point is embarassingly bad.
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Old 08-04-2004, 10:27 AM   #16 (permalink)
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• Repeal federal regulations that prevent African Americans from starting their own businesses
Those exist? I thought the opposite was true, and the federal government was actually <i>helping</i> minority businesses through various affirmative action programs.
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