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Old 11-02-2004, 01:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Alaska - Marijuana

I didnt actually realise until today that there was a legalisation referendum on the ballot for Alaska...I thought it was simply decriminalisation, however, CNN is stating that it is:
Quote:
Alaska | Measure 2: Legalizing Marijuana
Would legalize the cultivation, use and sale of marijuana for persons 21 and older; the state and local government would regulate marijuana like alcohol and tobacco; doctors would be able to prescribe drugs to all patients, including children; public use laws could be enacted by the government as well as laws in the interest of public safety.
What great news!! (In my opinion)

Has there been any feeling on whether this will pass or not?? Anyone from Alaska have a feeling that this will go through??

Maybe this will pave the way for changes throughout the US as well.
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Old 11-02-2004, 01:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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In the 70's, several states, I believe Alaska was one of them, decriminalized or legalized personal posession of small amounts of marijuana. These laws did not survive the escalation of the "war on drugs" that happened in the 80's. Hopefully this is a sign of the injection of some sanity into US drug policy, but I doubt it.
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Old 11-02-2004, 05:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You can posess 4 ounces for personal use in Alaska. A supreme court judge last August made it so. I live in Anchorage, and I voted no. Simply because, I don't use it. If someone else does, they can vote yes. But in no way does it benefit my everyday life. Marijuana isn't hard to come by, it's everywhere here. Legal or not, you can still posess it, and use it.

This didn't pass last time, and it won't pass this time. I'm just hoping it's a very sturdy no, so it won't be on the ballot again.
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Old 11-02-2004, 06:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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People better not screw this up.

I don't even live there and I'll be pissed if this doesn't get passed.

It baffles me how people have these chances to fix the wrongs in this country and they just let it slip by...

Why would you vote no? Do you drink?
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Old 11-02-2004, 06:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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that's it, i'm moving to alaska.
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Old 11-02-2004, 06:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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According to norml, you still get fined and/or jail for possession.

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?wtm_view=&Group_ID=4522

Hell, even in MI the fine is less (only $100). What's funny (and very typical in this country) is that the very people who voted no are also ones who drink.
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Old 11-03-2004, 04:26 AM   #7 (permalink)
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First off, I don't drink. So don't jump to ignorant conclusions. BTW, where is any proof the people who voted no are "also the ones who drink"? Give me a break.

Second of all, thats is not correct. A supreme court judge last august made it legal for private use, to posess 4 ounces. You can find information all over the internet. Go look. Better yet, before another ignorant assumption of yours, I'll do it for you.

"Alaska is already in the vanguard of marijuana law reform, and a marijuana initiative on the November ballot could see the state pushing the envelope even further. Right now, Alaska is the only state in the union to have even partially legalized the possession of marijuana -- the state's highest courts have recently reaffirmed that possession of up to four ounces in one's home is protected by the privacy provisions of the state constitution. The November initiative, officially known as Ballot Measure 2, would remove all criminal penalties for marijuana possession, production, or sales and require the state legislature to craft regulations to govern the legal sale of the weed."

Taken from http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/356/alaska.shtml

Here is another.

"The state Supreme Court in 1975 ruled that an adult's rights to limited marijuana possession was protected under the state constitution's privacy provisions. Last year, the Appeals Court defined that limit as 4 ounces."

Taken from http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...9519534.htm?1c

I don't use it. It doesn't benefit my everyday life in any way. If it benefits your life, other then the fact of you "getting high" then it's one thing. You can get plenty high off the 4 ounces your allowed in your own personal posession.

Last edited by Kurant; 11-03-2004 at 04:49 AM..
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Old 11-03-2004, 04:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Seeing as how my conclusions were right, it's pretty moot, eh? (Meaning... I figured you didn't drink since you voted "no".. if it was otherwise, then that's pretty screwed up)
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Last edited by Stompy; 11-03-2004 at 04:44 AM..
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Old 11-03-2004, 04:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stompy
Hell, even in MI the fine is less (only $100). What's funny (and very typical in this country) is that the very people who voted no are also ones who drink.
Again, do I need to point out your ignorant assumptions?

You asked me if I drink, the "Do you drink?" gave that away.

Then you responded with the above.

No, they weren't right, because there were no conclusions, only questions. And one completely ignorant assumption.
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Old 11-03-2004, 04:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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If that's what you wanna think!

Actually, for the most part, that statment I made is true. Sorry!

[edit]
You're mixing posts, talking about something different than I am. See, you gotta read the WHOLE post. Why don't people do that lately? Odd.

Anyway, I'll post the part you didn't read:

Quote:
(Meaning... I figured you didn't drink since you voted "no".. if it was otherwise, then that's pretty screwed up)
"Meaning.." refers to the sentence I said before it. I elaborated on that because I knew that people would easily get confused as to what I was referring to. You are correct, "Do you drink?" is a question! Just because I didn't post a conclusion w/ that doesn't mean the question didn't imply it.
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Last edited by Stompy; 11-03-2004 at 05:00 AM..
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Old 11-10-2004, 05:30 AM   #11 (permalink)
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This one went off topic pretty quick, didn't it. Let's not get bogged down in semantics of who phrased what question/conclusion in what way. I am very interested to know why Kurant voted the way he/she did. I know that you stated " I voted no. Simply because, I don't use it." but what about the social ramifications of anti-marijuana laws, the over-crowding of jails, the criminalization of otherwise harmless behavior? Did you vote no because it is already legal to possess 4 ounces and you figured that was enough of a decriminalization? Or did you vote no because you didn't want the state to get involved in the distribution, taxation, or sale of a drug (besides alcohol)? I would like a little more background on why you voted the way that you did, if you please.

BTW, I was in Anchorage for a couple of days and nights (if you can call them that) last June. Really enjoyed it and the rest of my trip to Alaska. We got the chance to rent some bikes and ride the coastal trail a bit. No moose though! I couldn't get everybody else up for the ride until after 10 AM and I guess the moose aren't out as much in the middle of the day.
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Old 11-10-2004, 06:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Since I don't see it posted here, I believe the results were 57% to 43% against.

Since, I rarely smoke 4 oz at a time..... It's still gravy.

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Old 11-10-2004, 08:14 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Damn I was really hoping this would pass...the current "war on drugs", that our lovely ex-first lady Bar made her priority, sure is working out swell, ain't it?
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Old 11-10-2004, 08:29 AM   #14 (permalink)
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It doesn't count in Alaska anyway, IMO.

This would pass without question on a bigger state that holds a more diverse voice in this country (like CA or NY).

As long as beer and cigarettes are legal, I will treat marijuana the same (with complete disregard for the law). Unless you're a big time drug dealer or get caught with an insane amount, you'll just get a slap on the wrist anyway.

For instance, in Ann Arbor, MI, you could be smoking it right in front of a cop and the most you'll get is $10 fine (might be $15 now). Most people just smoke it in their own house anyway, so it's not really a problem.

I'd just be nice if people could maintain a more open mind about things - if cigs and alcohol are legal, there is absolutely no reason for marijuana to not be (which was actually the point I was trying to make above). If you vote no on marijuana, then I better not see ya drinking a beer or smoking a cig!

Of course, that whole debate will probably need a thread of its own.

I don't live in Alaska, so it's no concern of mine that they didn't vote to legalize it. They're also a republican state, so I wouldn't really expect much progress up in that area to being with (in terms of this topic, anyway).
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Old 11-10-2004, 12:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
If someone else does, they can vote yes. But in no way does it benefit my everyday life.
I have never smoked in my life, but I support the legalization of it. Hell, tax the shit out of it like cigs and liquor... keeps the income/property taxes down.
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Old 11-10-2004, 01:14 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm rather surprised there aren't some serious money pushing lobbies behind it. I would think that some tobacco companies, running into so much opposition, would be welcome to change their product. I would imagine, of course this is purely speculation since I don't grow tobacco or pot, that they could easily modify their systems to change product. Being that you can grow freaking anything in the lower AC coast soil and marijuana is a rather hearty plant to begin with, it would certainly seem plausable.

Of course, they may also fear that down the road, with legalization would come more health studies that might possibly show more adverse affects of pot and they'ld be in the crapper once again.

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Old 11-12-2004, 05:23 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stompy
As long as beer and cigarettes are legal, I will treat marijuana the same (with complete disregard for the law). Unless you're a big time drug dealer or get caught with an insane amount, you'll just get a slap on the wrist anyway.
That depends on the state. I got caught in WA with less than an eighth of an ounce and a pipe, and I got a $500 fine plus 2 days in jail. In Nevada, simple possession can get you 1-4 years if you are under 21.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stompy
I don't live in Alaska, so it's no concern of mine that they didn't vote to legalize it. They're also a republican state, so I wouldn't really expect much progress up in that area to being with (in terms of this topic, anyway).
Alaska isn't really a republican state. They just lean that way because Republican is closer to Libertarian than Democrat is. They actually are quite progressive in the personal liberties department. It comes from being a state full of rugged individualists.
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Old 11-12-2004, 08:34 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fibber
Of course, they may also fear that down the road, with legalization would come more health studies that might possibly show more adverse affects of pot and they'ld be in the crapper once again.
It all depends where those studies come from. If that "anti-drug" organization does studies, they will be biased and negative. If a pothead does a study, it will be biased and positive. If an independent study is done, you will see that the pros and cons balance each other out.

Unless there's something in it that we've been overlooking for decades, I highly doubt any study will come out that will show marijuana to be more harmful than cigarettes.

We all know what cigs do in the longrun, but if you have a cigarette here and there, it's very improbable that you'll develop any complications because of it. If you smoke enough to get addicted, then you're up to a pack or two a day, every day for years... that's bad. Chances are, the majority of people won't be smoking a pack of joints if it were legal.

If you drink occasionally, it's actually (according to some studies) beneficial. But if you drink excessively, you develop an addiction and complications of your liver, etc.

It's like anything else: if used in moderation, it's perfectly fine. Anything has the potential to become harmful if used excessively. Putting sand in your ear is harmful, but we don't really need a law to tell us it's stupid to do so, do we?

It has its cons like anything else. Like I said, I don't think we'll be surprised with any study that suddenly says it's more harmful than constant cigarette smoking or drinking.
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Old 11-12-2004, 05:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stompy
For instance, in Ann Arbor, MI, you could be smoking it right in front of a cop and the most you'll get is $10 fine (might be $15 now). Most people just smoke it in their own house anyway, so it's not really a problem.
just to clarify something in case any of you reading this happen to go to ann arbor and light up...

i think the current fine is $25 now a days, it got raised about4 years ago, i think.

but here's the kicker... the really important part...

if you are caught on U of M's campus with marijuana by DPS (campus police), they are required to charge you under state law. and then you're fucked.

that change happened back in '98 or '99... i can't remember which, but the pot heads in my frat were a little worried about it. some of the best advice one of them ever gave me if i was going to smoke up at hash bash was "if you see a DPS guy trying to come arrest for smoking, run. run until you find a Ann Arbor cop and turn yourself in." words to live by, yo.
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Old 11-17-2004, 06:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Why are you fucked?

Well, at least one good reason would be (to a student anyway) that you will lose elligability for federal student aid.

Might want to keep that in mind, too, regardless of where you are.
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Old 11-17-2004, 06:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth
Why are you fucked?

Well, at least one good reason would be (to a student anyway) that you will lose elligability for federal student aid.

Might want to keep that in mind, too, regardless of where you are.
you're fucked because under state law you're gonna go before a judge. you will most likely end up with a criminal record (maybe not for first offense, depends on the judge i'd guess). but you'll get to pay a nice hefty fine and as you mention, lose eligability for federal student aid.

under city law it would have just been a $25 fine or something near that. relatively speaking, going under state law is getting fucked. and not in the good way.
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Old 11-17-2004, 07:56 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braisler
Did you vote no because it is already legal to possess 4 ounces and you figured that was enough of a decriminalization? Or did you vote no because you didn't want the state to get involved in the distribution, taxation, or sale of a drug (besides alcohol)? I would like a little more background on why you voted the way that you did, if you please.
Yes, and yes.

First, 4 ounces is alot of freaking weed for personal use.

Second, I have no faith in the local goverment and it's ability to manage a budget, and distribute money into places that I feel people benefit more from. For example, education. No, I'm not a teacher, but things like education, and other city and state programs that I feel are important, dont get enough attention. If the people who distribute and use the drug want to subsidize those tax dollars to goverment programs, and that for the imposing sales tax Anchorage will most likely get eventually, then it might get a yes. But, until the state proves to me it can manage money and quit building things like town squares, and cutting things like education in an already faultering budget to do so, then anything they have control over in terms of taxation, or distribution will never get a yes vote from me.

My wife and I paid over $8000 in property taxes last year(we don't have a state or sales tax), and I coulden't get a junked motorhome removed from the front of my newly landscaped yard and brand new home because the city didn't have the money to do it? You can assume the state and cities use that money in taxes to fix things like like that, but when you can't cut enough out of a budget to meet your goals, year in, and year out, there are more problems then if weed should be legal or not.

Quote:
BTW, I was in Anchorage for a couple of days and nights (if you can call them that) last June. Really enjoyed it and the rest of my trip to Alaska. We got the chance to rent some bikes and ride the coastal trail a bit. No moose though! I couldn't get everybody else up for the ride until after 10 AM and I guess the moose aren't out as much in the middle of the day.
Wrong time of the year to see moose. You do on occasion, but you'll see them much, much more in the fall time. (Well we don't really have a fall season, but you get the idea.)


Edited for spelling.

Last edited by Kurant; 11-17-2004 at 08:38 PM..
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Old 11-18-2004, 05:53 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Kurant, thank you for posting your response. It was encouraging to hear your thoughtful response. I now understand why you voted the way that you did.

I probably would have voted the other way myself, but I understand and respect your lack of faith in the gov't making meaningful choices with new tax revenue. I would hope that by moving in the direction of legalization and taxation we would make gains on the fiscal front. I suppose my arguement could be summarized with the idea of getting the tax base of the sale and distribution of marijuana first, and working on the government's use of that money second. After all, if you don't have the money, there isn't a lot of reason to budget for it or to decide where it is going to be spent.
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Old 11-20-2004, 04:56 AM   #24 (permalink)
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humm maybe I will be moving to Alaska
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Old 11-20-2004, 06:00 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Besides the financial benefit of legalizing pot, I don't see any reason to bother. The argument of "other things are bad too so why not legalize it?" doesn't hold much water imo.

Sure people are gonna smoke it anyway. Sure it's big downfall tends to be making lazy ass kids lazier and causing them to eat bad food more often. Sure cigs are worse for you (a popular opinion to be sure, and one I'm not here to argue).

But what is the point of legalizing? Did they just find out it increases brain cells? Does it prevent Cancer now? Do people study harder or work harder just because they lit up?

It may not be "that bad" for you, but it's still not "good" for you. Why bother to legalize something that still brings about nothing but negative? And please, don't argue with me based on the fact that you want to smoke it! I don't care what you want, I want your logic not your psychological addiction to pot responding.
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Old 11-20-2004, 07:36 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwhit
Besides the financial benefit of legalizing pot, I don't see any reason to bother. The argument of "other things are bad too so why not legalize it?" doesn't hold much water imo.

Sure people are gonna smoke it anyway. Sure it's big downfall tends to be making lazy ass kids lazier and causing them to eat bad food more often. Sure cigs are worse for you (a popular opinion to be sure, and one I'm not here to argue).

But what is the point of legalizing? Did they just find out it increases brain cells? Does it prevent Cancer now? Do people study harder or work harder just because they lit up?

It may not be "that bad" for you, but it's still not "good" for you. Why bother to legalize something that still brings about nothing but negative? And please, don't argue with me based on the fact that you want to smoke it! I don't care what you want, I want your logic not your psychological addiction to pot responding.

maybe you should try to look at it from a different standpoint. try looking at it from the 'why should it be illegal' standpoint. there really aren't many arguments for it. in our modern world, there isn't a whole lot that isn't bad for us. smoking, drinking, driving, even work. the amount of stress, lack of sleep, poor nutrtion of our society is unhealthy. so given that our society is somewhat bad for us and there are benefits to the use of marijuana, why not make it legal? (i realize that this is somewhat the argument you think doesn't hold any water, but not exactly)

i'll give you a few reasons to consider legalizing it.

stress relief.

medical benefits (glaucoma, etc)

the freedom to smoke what you want as long as you're not hurting others?

what is the point of making it illegal? it doesn't bring about nothing but negatives like you suggest. i don't smoke pot, but i don't see the need for it to be illegal. from my understanding of how/when it became illegal, i think a lot of it had to do with the tobacco industry lobbying against it. don't you find it somewhat odd that hemp can also be used to make cloths, rope and paper (all in non-smokeable thc levels) yet it still can't be grown for that? i wonder why...
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Old 11-20-2004, 10:24 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Hannukah Harry just made of the best posts I have ever read. The problem with so many people now is that they look at things from the "why should they be legal" standpoint. One should never look at anything from that standpoint. Drug laws waste money, prosecuting/jailing people who essentially are not harming anyone but themselves is completely ridiculous. And as far as health benefits go, marijuana can treat glaucoma and can be used to help a person regain their appetite after surgery, cancer treatment, or disease.

Take a look at some of the perscription drug commercials that they put on TV. The ones with the list of "potential side effects" that about 5 times out of 10 include "serious illness or death". Why does no one say anything about them? Oh yeah, because the companies that own them make campaign contributions.
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Old 11-21-2004, 12:15 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwhit
Besides the financial benefit of legalizing pot, I don't see any reason to bother. The argument of "other things are bad too so why not legalize it?" doesn't hold much water imo.
Sure people are gonna smoke it anyway. Sure it's big downfall tends to be making lazy ass kids lazier and causing them to eat bad food more often. Sure cigs are worse for you (a popular opinion to be sure, and one I'm not here to argue).
It may not be "that bad" for you, but it's still not "good" for you. Why bother to legalize something that still brings about nothing but negative? And please, don't argue with me based on the fact that you want to smoke it! I don't care what you want, I want your logic not your psychological addiction to pot responding.

i look at it like this....
1) going from what i've observed, an overwhelming majority of people living in any part of the modernized world needs something to help them unwind at the end of the day or on their day off. something that lets them transcend the trapped feeling their life can give them... especially if they have a stressful or exhausting job.

2) any of these crutches or drugs or whatever you want to call them can wreck or end the lives of any one around the people abusing them.

3)this harm can be measured in degrees from unhealthy physiological side effects to psychotic episodes to impaired/dangerous driving.

so right there, i can see the reason why marijuana should be legal. while
eating lots of takeout food, settling for a bad job, and being happy bored are negative things to see linked up with it, they are nowhere near the same stratosphere of the effects of drinking... i just think the pot smoker is going to be much less likely to beat the shit out of his wife or wrap his car around a tree.

legalization would also be good from an economic standpoint for anyone but the alcohol and tobacco companies. it would be quite empowering for a lot of lower class and poverty stricken people could grow their own high instead of constantly enslaving themselves for their weekly alottment of beer and cigarettes.

the point of our jails being crowded is a good one too. a huge chunk of our population is working for less than third world wages in prison sweat shops around the country while thousands of really violent offenders are released too early for their crime because of prison overcrowding..... the relief to be had from releasing all the marijuana offenders is more mindblowing than a magic brownie at a phish concert.
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Old 11-21-2004, 01:26 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Your still missing the point. If your talking about legalization, your in the wrong thread.

It IS in fact legal to possess and use 4 ounces of pot in your own home. The only thing the vote governs is the sale, and distribution, and the states ability to (even though it doesn't say that, I'm in Alaska, and trust me when I say this) tax, and make insane amounts of money off of pot users.

For reasons listed above, I'm not willing to grant the state of Alaska those rights.
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Old 11-21-2004, 01:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
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IMO & experience.

Living in Alaska (and the front range in Colorado) I have seen the effects of weed. Of the people that I went to high school with the ones still smokin' are still struggling to get by while defending their right to partake. The ones that shook it off as a stage that they went through are making good money, buying nice homes and working for solid companies. Almost daily I see the effects of families with parents that still choose to smoke. The sight is sometimes pretty rough, kids in worn out clothes, cars that should not be on the road, bounced checks, and little or no hope for prosperity in their future. While they are not the average criminal, they are not fulfilling the American dream either.

Alaska has huge "sin taxes" on alcohol and tobacco. We just had a young man rape and kill his step mother who is utilizing the "I was stoned" defence. Do I believe that weed was responsible, NO, do I believe that the young man has other problems that were influenced and that weed contributed to the murder, YES.

If you decide to smoke, remember that it effects people in your circle of friends and family, your income, your health, and ability to think and reason.

Do I believe that a person can have an occasional bowl and not have any of the problems stated above.... YES. If I were out campin in the bush and someone offered a bowl as a one time thing......there better be some serious food in the camper.

Thats my personal take on smokin' pot.
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