archpaladin

I was thinking of posting this in Tilted Weaponry, but figured it might be more appropriate here.....if not, then someone please move it.

So....Does anyone know why certain kinds of knives (I'm thinking of switchblades and butterfly knives) are illegal in certain places, while other knives are not? Think about it....I can walk into a hunting goods store or an army/navy surplus store almost anywhere and get a hunting knife, and if not that, then I can buy a meat cleaver or even a set of steak knives. Such knives are as deadly, if not more so, than a switchblade or butterfly knife, yet certain places have put restrictions on these types of knives simply because of how the blade is stored.

Besides me, is there someone else out there that thinks this is a little absurd? Why not make all knives legal?

Seaver

It's about the ease of hiding the knives. Just as conceled weaps are illegal in many places, while here in Texas you can walk into a courtroom with a pistol as long as it's holstered and visible.

It's hard to hide a 3 inch blade in your pocket, while a switchblade is

DelayedReaction

Here in the People's Republic of Maryland, you can carry a folding knife as long as it's clipped to your pocket (ergo it's not concealed). Not sure where you can't take it, nor am I sure as to what the maximum blade length is, but I've had several police officers say that my 4" folder is legal when I carry it clipped to my pocket.

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The_Dunedan

Most places in the US have at least a nominal ban on carrying "automatic" knives such a slingblades and stillettoes, and it's quasi-illegal to import brass-framed Balisongs from the Phillipines. The Balisongs got a nasty reputation back in the 70s because the brass frame, unlike steel or aluminum, is extremely quiet. They're also VERY fast to open; not like in the movies with all the rattling about, but just letting gravity do the work for you and flicking them open.

Slingblades got banned in the early 60s ( I think it was ) because of their "gangland" image, and because the silly myth got started that the spring that powered the blade could drive the blade into someone...utter nonsense, when you consider that the outside edge of a slingblade is dulled to prevent cutting the users hand. I own a fair number of slingblades and Balisongs ( brought in before the ban ) myself, and they're quite a lot of fun, but do NOT get caught carrying one of these things! Most cops can't tell a Balisong from a street-corner butterfly, but an "automatic" knife will get you in shit up to your eyebrows in most places.

I agree, BTW, that these bans are utter nonsense. "Automatic" knives are extremely popular in the rest of the world, especially ( irony of ironies ) among cops and EMS people, because their one-handed opening makes them easier to use in an emergency or in tight quarters. Bokker's slingblades are GI to many German police units and EMTs, but are illegal here in the US.

Tarl Cabot

Not to mention that the little post that comes on the blade of so many pocketknives allows for one-handed opening.

I guess China will be banning "assault knives" now:

Story

shakran

In most states the legal carry limit is around 2.5-4 inches, so it's not just the balisongs and switchblades. No I don't know why switchblades are illegal while folders aren't, considering I can open my folder faster than a switchblade anyway.

I also don't understand why society quietly accepts the banning of knives while at the same time going apeshit over any sort of gun ban. (We can't have a bazooka! WTF! Read the 2nd amendment! and so forth).

As you all know there are 2 schools of thought on the 2nd amendment. The popular one right now is that it guarantees every citizen the right to bear ARMS. Not guns, but ARMS, which means guns AND knives (and anything else - clubs, swords, maces, etc).

I've gotten in conversations with several people that bitch about the liberals wanting to ban guns and therefore violating the 2nd amendment, and when I flick out my spyderco and start asking them if they'd be OK if it were 8 inches longer, they start talking about banning knives.

sob

Sounds like that would make it an "assault knife" to me.

Ever gotten in one with a person that thinks the police are required to protect you?

How about the one where a person claims the NRA wants to allow citizens to carry bazookas and automatic weapons?

kutulu

Hypocrisy is an American value. We love to do that sort of thing.

superiorrain

The type of knife has a different function, you're not likely to start cutting veg with what is considered a combat knife etc. Making all knives legal would be a crime against mankind, it's like saying you should be able to carry a gun anywhere you want to go (oopps sorry you already do that in the US - silly me). If you carry a knife around with you on the street in my opinion there is only one thing you want to do with it (not talking about knives just bought and to be taken home), i'm talking here of a butterfly knife where the blade and be secured away neatly as not to hurt yourself. Just stab to death or attack the next person that you don't talk a liking to, or that you just want to scare, mug or whatever.

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Ustwo

Last I checked the London violent crime rate was worse than New York.

Glad your laws are working.

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roachboy

i dont suppose you would care to provide any detail for that claim of yours, would you ustwo? i am curious about how violent crime is defined in your stats. which no doubt you have at hand.

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archpaladin

Regardless of Ustwo's comment, I think this is somewhat absurd. I can go get a swiss army knife or a 3 inch pocket folder and be just as dangerous as someone with a balisong or switchblade. Not to mention the fact that I'd draw a lot less attention to myself, since after all - "it's only a pocket knife".

What I'm saying here is that to ban one type of knife and not another is foolish. I can be a crazy idiot going around killing people with any type of knife....its form of construction doesn't matter. The argument that some knives are easier to open for use in assault doesn't hold either, because a person can become comfortable with using any type of knife, and become just as quick when handling it. For people intent on weapons regulation, in my opinion either all types of knives need to be banned (which is ludicrous - chefs of the world unite!) or they should all be legal. Otherwise perhaps we should attack a different yet related problem....say education or self-defense awareness? The idea of banning weapons seems to me to be only a band-aid for a larger problem (ie. hatred and violence) conveniently being ignored.

Lebell

Appologies to Ustwo for responding to this first.

http://www.techcentralstation.com/012003M.html

http://www.rkba.org/research/bjs/cjusew96/

Yes, overall violent crime is greater in London than in New York.

God Save the Queen...

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Seaver

Ok first guns... now knives. What about pens? It's a deadly weapon, a good thrust to the chest and a man is dead.

Look I have "combat knives" that I use all the time. They are quite simply higher quality than the swiss army knife bullshit. To anyone who knows anything about knives they will never buy stainless steel. It just happens that "combat knives" are the only knives anymore that dont use it.

MSD

Just like most weapon bans, it's because people are afraid of them.

sprocket

And thanks to the totally effective ban against these knives there is a huge shortage of objects to stab people with!! We're saved!

I would only consider it a crime against mankind if you can prove that these bans have done anything at all to reduce crime. Otherwise they are useless, pointless, and a waste of everyones damn time.

On the other hand, I can also envision knife makers getting very creative with switchblade design. Like creating knives that look like an every day benign object that a typical person would carry (a cane perhaps) and allowing someone to bypass security at say.. an airport. Thats the only type of scenario where I can imagine these laws provide any sort of preventive safety and as far as I can figure out is the only argument for this ban that is based on any sort of rationality. Its implementation though.. is far from effective or rational.


Edited because I just cant get a post right the first time.

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shakran

well I'm not sure how you'd get a metal knife to be able to bypass a metal detector in an airport.

And if someone's carrying a plastic switchblade around, they're out to kill someone. They're going to get one whether its legal or not.

And whether the bans are practical or not, it's still a hypocracy to say that guns can't be banned because of the 2nd amendment, but knives can. Either we have the right to bear arms or we don't. As I said, whether the 2nd guarantees an individual the right to carry a weapon or not is a rather hot debate right now, with strong arguments on both sides. But neither side says the 2nd applies to one weapon and not another. Either you ban 'em all, or you don't ban any of 'em.

Seaver

Ceramic knives can be made to have a sharper point than any metal knife, and if I'm correct they dont set off metal detectors. There I go, one more person giving the terrorists ideas (I hate when the news do that shit).

sprocket

Mabye I phrased my argument badly. I agree with you 100%.

Instead of saying I would "consider it a crime against humanity" to legalize the knives if you can show me crime was reduced by making the knives illegal.. I should have said.. That argument at least has a logical leg to stand on IF they reduced crime. And if you dont accept the second amendment as valid and or beleive in a personal right of a human being to use effective tools to defend his/her life. But as it stands.. the argument doesnt have a logical leg to stand on because no one can prove any crime has been prevented because someone cant legally buy a knife with a retractable blade (except pocket knives).

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MSD

Glass knives can be sharpened even more perfectly than ceramic, although they're more fragile.

f6twister

Okay, back to the original question of legality.

I checked my state's statutes regarding weapons and while they have the ban on switchblades, this is all the state has in place covering knives:

941.23 Carrying concealed weapon. Any person except
a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous
weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

A dangerous weapon is defined as:

939.22(10) "Dangerous weapon" means any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded; any device designed as a weapon and capable of producing death or great bodily harm; any electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295 (4); or any other device or instrumentality which, in the manner it is used or intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or great bodily harm.

I was surprised to learn that there is no limit on the blade length (but there are a number of local cities who have ordinances limiting the length). I spoke with a local cop and someone at the state level. It basically comes down to what you say when a cop finds a knife on you. If you are carrying a basic pocket knife (concealed) and a cop asks you what you use it for, don't tell them safety, self defense, protection, etc. That means that you intend to use the knife as a dangerous weapon should the need arise. Tell them you use it for work, to open mail, to pick your teeth.....anything which would show that you have no intention of hurting anyone with it. You may think that this is common sense but I can tell you from recent events at work that it isn't.

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Paq

I never understood the concept of banning knives...honestly, i just don't. I have made MANY bladed weapons that could pass through metal detectors, cause bodily harm, intimidate, maim, injure, whatever and it is not hard to do so...just ask anyone who's been in prison (not saying i have, but the ideas are the same)

and, as someone mentioned before, ceramic knives are easily concealed, pass by most inspections, can be hidden within other things and are MUuuuuccchhhh sharper than metal knives

and banning knives just has a nice slippery slope feel to it...kinda like the kid that was expelled from school for having a toenail clipper with the file attached....

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