Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Politics


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-15-2004, 06:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
The Dreaded Pixel Nazi
 
Konichiwaneko's Avatar
 
Location: Inside my camera
Depressing Article - Mentally Disabled 19 year old set for execution in Iran

Quote:
LONDON (AP) Amnesty International said Tuesday that Iran planned to execute a mentally disabled 19-year-old woman for "acts contrary to chastity," referring to alleged crimes stemming from her having been forced into prostitution as a child.

The London-based human rights group cited reports in the Iranian newspaper Khorasan that said social workers estimated the woman, identified only as Leyla M., had the mental capacity of an 8-year-old.

The newspaper reported on Nov. 28 that Leyla had been sentenced to death by a court in the central Iranian city of Arak when she was 18, according to Amnesty. The sentence had been passed to Iran's Supreme Court for confirmation, the group said.

The group said Leyla had been convicted of "acts contrary to chastity," including controlling a brothel, having sex with relatives and giving birth outside of marriage.

It said she had confessed to the charges and was to be flogged before her execution. Khorasan reported that Leyla had exhausted her appeals, Amnesty added.

Amnesty said Leyla's mother had forced her into prostitution when she was 8. It said the girl was raped repeatedly and gave birth to a baby when she was 9. She was sentenced to flogging at the time.

Her family sold her to an Afghan man when she was 12, and his mother forced the girl to continue as a prostitute, Amnesty said. She gave birth to twins at age 14 and was again punished by flogging, the group said. Her family later sold her again, to a 55-year-old man, Amnesty said.

The reports could not immediately be confirmed.

Amnesty said that as a party to the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, Iran had promised not to execute anyone for crimes committed while they were under 18.

The group said Iran had executed at least three child offenders in 2004. In addition, it said, a 14-year-old boy died on Nov. 12 after being flogged for eating in public during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/inter...=international

I'm putting this is the politics forum because of the general atmosphere we are in now. I'm very tolerant of religion I want to stress that, but this situation really makes me feel akward.

It's easily argueable to say "That is their way, and it's wrong for us to impose our beliefs upon them" but in this situation it just feels so wrong to me. The reason I'm saying this is because of our war. Do I think we should fight in the middle east because they are Muslim? Oh very much no. It's like saying lets kill someone because they are a different race.

Discuss with me people, about how you feel about this. I don't like taking freedoms away from others, but I can't tolerate taking someones life mostly in a situation like this. I've read articles upon articles before and after the war, but fo some reason this one gets to me.
__________________
Hesitate. Pull me in.
Breath on breath. Skin on skin.
Loving deep. Falling fast.
All right here. Let this last.
Here with our lips locked tight.
Baby the time is right for us...
to forget about us.

Last edited by Bill O'Rights; 12-16-2004 at 06:04 AM..
Konichiwaneko is offline  
Old 12-15-2004, 06:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
Junkie
 
filtherton's Avatar
 
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
Yeah, this is what can happen when you live in a theocracy.

Last edited by filtherton; 12-15-2004 at 07:01 PM..
filtherton is offline  
Old 12-15-2004, 09:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
....is off his meds...you were warned.
 
KMA-628's Avatar
 
Location: The Wild Wild West
The "mentally disabled" part doesn't bother me as much as this:
Quote:
The group said Leyla had been convicted of "acts contrary to chastity," including controlling a brothel, having sex with relatives and giving birth outside of marriage.
The reason I say this is because the "mental age" of someone can be very subjective. That part of the article could be included and enhanced to elicit more emotion, who knows. How does one "control a brothel" and be mentally disabled as well? Maybe I am not getting what "control a brothel" means.

Regardless of the mental state, I don't understand how this culture can continually beat/murder women for "crimes" like this.

And people want to complain about Christianity in America? If we had laws even half as bad as this most of us would be running for our lives.
KMA-628 is offline  
Old 12-15-2004, 10:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
Loser
 
Didn't Texas just do pretty much this same thing about a month ago?
Manx is offline  
Old 12-15-2004, 10:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
Somnabulist
 
guy44's Avatar
 
Location: corner of No and Where
No. Murder is the only capital crime in the States (well, and treason and desertion, but you know).

However, they did very recently execute an innocent man. Again.
__________________
"You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"
guy44 is offline  
Old 12-15-2004, 11:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
Loser
 
I was referring to the mentally disabled aspect of this story.
Manx is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 03:09 AM   #7 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands (find it on a map, it is there (somewhere))
This is bad, and I think that it would be hard for any religion to explain this without saying that it is wrong. Especially since this woman was sold and brutalised by men (I presume, cause pregnancy would be hard otherwise) from an early age onwards. I hope that those men are sentenced as well (but good chance they are not).

However on the point of sentencing minors as adults in the Netherlands a 16 year old was sentencend by adult laws this year (okay he shot and killed a teacher in the head, so there is a case to be made for that). And I have heard of stories like that happening in other countries as well. Even of people who are menatlly challenged/handicapped (is that pc or just bogus?)

Unfortunatly this case does not stand on its own, what makes it awfull is the fact that she is being executed for reasons I see as disgusting. That what makes me sick. The strong should always take care of the weak, whether as a family or a society. And this is just plain wrong
__________________
Somnia, terrores magicos, miracula, sagas,
Nocturnus lemures, portentaque.
Horace
energus is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 03:32 AM   #8 (permalink)
Illusionary
 
tecoyah's Avatar
 
This does have a Texas ring to it..........and I was disgusted by that incident as well.
__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
tecoyah is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 05:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
Junkie
 
You know what's depressing?

The hypocracy of this thread when the United States is one of the few countries in the world that also regularly executes those with mental illness.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...id=782&scid=66


Mr Mephisto
Mephisto2 is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 05:31 AM   #10 (permalink)
Egocentric
 
Jadedfox's Avatar
 
Location: World of Warcraft
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto
You know what's depressing?

The hypocracy of this thread when the United States is one of the few countries in the world that also regularly executes those with mental illness.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...id=782&scid=66


Mr Mephisto
That's a great point. It's sad really.

--jaded
__________________
There is no fucking you, there is only me.
Jadedfox is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 07:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
Junkie
 
powerclown's Avatar
 
Location: Detroit, MI
Since when are 'acts of chastity' comparable to murder? That girl didn't harm anyone, she herself was the victim. The Texas case (If we're talking about Patterson) was an admitted double murder. The linked mentally ill cases were all murder cases ('2 people murdered', '5 people murdered', 'stabbed a person to death'). Apples and oranges, no moral equivalent here whatsoever.
Quote:
The group said Iran had executed at least three child offenders in 2004. In addition, it said, a 14-year-old boy died on Nov. 12 after being flogged for eating in public during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
I think its safe to say Human Rights ain't a big priority in that neck of the woods. Look for Iran to head up the UN Human Rights Commission very soon.
powerclown is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 07:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
Psycho
 
vox_rox's Avatar
 
Location: Comfy Little Bungalow
In this case, it is not about whether or not we believe in their religion, or their politcs. It comes down to basic human rights. In this case, they are being denied, and that is what is wrong.

At the risk of actually sounding politically incorrect, Islamic Republics, even "moderate" ones, tend to ingnore the rights and needs of women in their society, and the more extreme they lean, the more atrocious the intolerance towards them.

There are exactly ZERO circimstances in this story that warrant punishment of this person, never mind repeated floggings and a death sentence.

I continue to hear people say how Muslims are peaceful people and Islam is a belief of love and respect, yet after reading several parts of the Koran, and after reading about continued mistreatment of Women and others who are marginalized in those societies, I have severe doubts that anything I hear about Islam can be taken at face value.

I lnow this will not be a poplular post, and I can see the PC police coming down on me very hard for this, but I continue to see Islam subjugating those who are not male and not in power, and this has become an established pattern.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it all seems bad to me. If they were peaceful and respectful, maybe they would not be allowed to SELL their duaghters into prostitution. Did the father of the girl get punished for his role in this. Ha! Did the 55 year-old man who eventually "bought" her face and charges or punishment? Pah-leeese!

It's all wrong, period.

Peace,

Pierre
__________________
---
There is no such thing as strong coffee - only weak people.
---
vox_rox is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 08:02 AM   #13 (permalink)
Rail Baron
 
stevo's Avatar
 
Location: Tallyfla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konichiwaneko

Discuss with me people, about how you feel about this. I don't like taking freedoms away from others, but I can't tolerate taking someones life mostly in a situation like this. I've read articles upon articles before and after the war, but fo some reason this one gets to me.
Getting the mullahs overthrown in Iran would not be taking the iranians freedoms away. It would be helping the iranain people get their freedom, i.e. liberation.
stevo is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 08:11 AM   #14 (permalink)
....is off his meds...you were warned.
 
KMA-628's Avatar
 
Location: The Wild Wild West
While I am not to keen on the execution of the mentally disabled (I haven't really made my mind up either way), it should be noted (again) that the testing processes used are not necessarily all-inclusive.

A few of the cases mentioned above had a lot of controversy regarding whether or not the person was mentally disabled.

If you think about it, it is a pretty good defense, easy to set up and hard to prove.

From what I read about it, having execution on the table at sentencing had to do whether or not the person knew what they were doing was wrong. The "mental age" wasn't as big an issue as the ability to tell right from wrong.

and...

I would rather have the problem we have regarding executions and "mentally disabled" persons, than to support the country that does this (and worse) to women on a pretty much everyday basis.

While both are bad, ours happens very, very rarely.

This happens (and things like it) in some Muslim countries regularly.
KMA-628 is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 08:14 AM   #15 (permalink)
....is off his meds...you were warned.
 
KMA-628's Avatar
 
Location: The Wild Wild West
Quote:
Originally Posted by vox_rox
I continue to hear people say how Muslims are peaceful people and Islam is a belief of love and respect, yet after reading several parts of the Koran, and after reading about continued mistreatment of Women and others who are marginalized in those societies, I have severe doubts that anything I hear about Islam can be taken at face value.
I came to the same conclusion after reading some parts of the Koran.

I remember sitting there, reading how the punishment/torture/murder of "infidels" is not just acceptable, but condoned. I seem to remember one passage that went into detail about how these acts could be done.

After reading it, I sat there and thought, "what part of this is peaceful?"
KMA-628 is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 08:27 AM   #16 (permalink)
The Dreaded Pixel Nazi
 
Konichiwaneko's Avatar
 
Location: Inside my camera
The definitiation of peace though is what's defined by that current culture. What is "Peace" to us is what we believe it to be, while what is "Peace" to others is what they define it to be. In the teachings of the Koran, if Peace and Normality is defined by removing the basic rights of female. and all lax death sentences they yes they are a people of "Peace".

As mentioned before though by another member, I too feel that this goes beyond politics and religion.

You guys did a great point in showing that all countries are affected by this situation, fortunately in that we were able to start discussion on the matter. I've notice though that this girls been in trouble for at least a decade and she keeps on getting in trouble and her parents kept on selling her back. In the US, though I don't support it, woudln't of defax stepped in by the time the first babies were born over a decade ago?
__________________
Hesitate. Pull me in.
Breath on breath. Skin on skin.
Loving deep. Falling fast.
All right here. Let this last.
Here with our lips locked tight.
Baby the time is right for us...
to forget about us.
Konichiwaneko is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 08:38 AM   #17 (permalink)
....is off his meds...you were warned.
 
KMA-628's Avatar
 
Location: The Wild Wild West
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konichiwaneko
As mentioned before though by another member, I too feel that this goes beyond politics and religion.
I don't see how this is the case.

By admission, their own political structure is defined by the Koran.
Their values/ethics/mores are defined by the Koran.
Theri judicial system is defined by the Koran.

The heinous acts they commit against their own people (and others) are justifiable, to them, through the Koran.

If pretty much every aspect of their political and judicial structure revolves around the Koran, than how could it go beyond religion? What else is there?

/not trying to start a war on this topic, but I just don't see this point.....(probably never will since I don't understand the culture either)
KMA-628 is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 08:58 AM   #18 (permalink)
The Dreaded Pixel Nazi
 
Konichiwaneko's Avatar
 
Location: Inside my camera
Kma we agree, I worded that wrong.

I believe that it's not religiously or politically justifiable and that it's wrong on a scale of individual human rights.

I appologize
__________________
Hesitate. Pull me in.
Breath on breath. Skin on skin.
Loving deep. Falling fast.
All right here. Let this last.
Here with our lips locked tight.
Baby the time is right for us...
to forget about us.
Konichiwaneko is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 09:14 AM   #19 (permalink)
....is off his meds...you were warned.
 
KMA-628's Avatar
 
Location: The Wild Wild West
no need to apologize, I just thought you were saying that there were other factors involved and I just wasn't seeing it.
KMA-628 is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 10:23 AM   #20 (permalink)
undead
 
Pacifier's Avatar
 
Location: Duisburg, Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMA-628
I came to the same conclusion after reading some parts of the Koran.

I remember sitting there, reading how the punishment/torture/murder of "infidels" is not just acceptable, but condoned. I seem to remember one passage that went into detail about how these acts could be done.
"parts" of it?
Reading parts of the Bilbe can also give you a rather strange Point of view
"But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me." (Lukas 19,27)

It is not the Bible or Koran alone, it is the people who interpret those books. There are assholes who interpret the Bible in a strange way and there are assholes who interpret the Koran in a strange way. Sadly those are in Power
__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
Albert Einstein
Pacifier is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 10:32 AM   #21 (permalink)
....is off his meds...you were warned.
 
KMA-628's Avatar
 
Location: The Wild Wild West
edit: didn't read the beginning of the post

What I meant by "parts" of it is that I didn't read the whole thing, just a few books.

I see your point about the excerpt, but it really isn't apples to apples. Especially when you take large sections of the Koran.

I will see if I can find the part I read and get back to you so you can see what I meant.

Last edited by KMA-628; 12-16-2004 at 10:34 AM..
KMA-628 is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 10:52 AM   #22 (permalink)
....is off his meds...you were warned.
 
KMA-628's Avatar
 
Location: The Wild Wild West
Pacifier -

Reading it again, the Koran is very bulleted. It seems to go point to point to point with little flow (might be because of the trasnlation)--at least most of what I read did this, some of the later Suras weren't as bulleted.

So, you can take excerpts from it as each bullet is individual, unlike the passage you quoted which is just one small quote from the "Parable of the Mina"--16 verses long.

Specifically:

Sura 4, more towards the end
Sura 8, more in the beginning
etc.

Anyway, that is really not the point here.

These atrocities are commonly committed in Muslim states. Reasoning for these actions is taken from the Koran. Obviously, there has to be something there if so many millions of Muslims are believing that this is the correct way to behave. Either that or you have mass brain-washing and people are being taught and believing something that isn't real.
KMA-628 is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 03:03 PM   #23 (permalink)
is awesome!
 
Locobot's Avatar
 
I support the death penalty only in in the most extreme attacks on civilized life: McVeigh, Malvo, Peterson, Bundy etc. I can even think of hypothetical instances where a person who is considered mentally handicapped should be executed. Culpability must be proved.

Obviously the case at hand does not fit the criteria in any sense. I think even the most staunch cultural relativist would have their beliefs shaken by this case.

What can actually be done though? We already have restrictive economic sanctions against Iran. Let's also remember that there are a great number of moderate Iranians who find this just as appalling as we do and who are just as powerless to do anything about it.

The source of the Mullah's power is religion. The best way I can think of to sap that power is if people stop recognizing them as religious authorities. Can anyone think of a way the Western world could do this with out manufacturing jihad?

Last edited by Locobot; 12-16-2004 at 04:49 PM..
Locobot is offline  
Old 12-16-2004, 08:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
whosoever
 
martinguerre's Avatar
 
Location: New England
how the hell am i supposed to sleep tonight?

that's the coldest thing i've heard in a long time...

i hope whatever we got from the Shah before the revolution was worth fueling a theocracy that could do something like this. that said...righteous indignation just doesn't cut it. this is just too damn cold for words.
__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16
martinguerre is offline  
Old 12-17-2004, 04:15 AM   #25 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands (find it on a map, it is there (somewhere))
I agree with Pacifier. When it comes to religion it is the way you interpret the writings and usually they are used for bettering oneself. There are several writings in the Bible I find more than dubious/suspicious. And I am thankfull that thay are not used as they are written.

However I always had the notion that every religion says to take care of the weak and that what makes this so weird. This woman was abused by her family (sold as (sex)slave)) as well as the system. If this girl's story is true than the real culprits are the men who sold and abused her. Trial them, punish them, but I guess being male clears you of wrong doings in certain countries

As for the underage thing. There are moments that someone can (and should) be tried as an adult. However when it happens I always wonder if a child that has not done a crime can go to court and ask to have adult privaliges (i.e. voting, smoking, drinking etc) cause if the law can go one way why not the other. I guess what my point is why can young adults only be on the wrong side of the system and not the beneficial side of it?
__________________
Somnia, terrores magicos, miracula, sagas,
Nocturnus lemures, portentaque.
Horace
energus is offline  
Old 12-18-2004, 01:13 AM   #26 (permalink)
The Dreaded Pixel Nazi
 
Konichiwaneko's Avatar
 
Location: Inside my camera
here's another article that mentions this

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news/press/15825.shtml
__________________
Hesitate. Pull me in.
Breath on breath. Skin on skin.
Loving deep. Falling fast.
All right here. Let this last.
Here with our lips locked tight.
Baby the time is right for us...
to forget about us.
Konichiwaneko is offline  
Old 12-18-2004, 04:46 PM   #27 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto
You know what's depressing?

The hypocracy of this thread when the United States is one of the few countries in the world that also regularly executes those with mental illness.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...id=782&scid=66


Mr Mephisto

Mindboggling!!! Every post that sheds a negative light on a country other than the U.S. is immediately reverted to point the finger back at the U.S.

The anger and hatred and is truly mindboggling.
smicer is offline  
Old 12-18-2004, 08:01 PM   #28 (permalink)
Insane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vox_rox
In this case, it is not about whether or not we believe in their religion, or their politcs. It comes down to basic human rights. In this case, they are being denied, and that is what is wrong.

At the risk of actually sounding politically incorrect, Islamic Republics, even "moderate" ones, tend to ingnore the rights and needs of women in their society, and the more extreme they lean, the more atrocious the intolerance towards them.
Islamic republics? As in plural? The only one I know of is Turkey, and that is precisely the problem. I do agree with the sentiment of the rest of your post and there is no reason to apologize for the backwardness of another culture. All cultures are not beautiful (including ours, to much a lesser degree). Although I rarely agree with a certain Michael Savage, he does make a point in criticizing Islam for not having gone through a major reform movement. I loathe Christianity and Judaism too, but at least their more popular sects do not hearken back to primitive man's sense of justice. This girl, mentally disabled or not, has been brutalized her entire life and needs the exact of opposite what she is receiving.
Anomaly_ is offline  
Old 12-19-2004, 06:02 PM   #29 (permalink)
sob
Banned
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smicer
Mindboggling!!! Every post that sheds a negative light on a country other than the U.S. is immediately reverted to point the finger back at the U.S.

The anger and hatred and is truly mindboggling.
Now someone else has posted my sentiments from an earlier post, in which I suggested a search among some of our members for

1. Anything favorable they've ever said about the US, or
2. Anything bad they've ever said about terrorists.

Good luck.
sob is offline  
Old 12-19-2004, 06:22 PM   #30 (permalink)
Insane
 
US has great pizza. Good beer. BBQ is incredible. Make good films also.
Terrorists. bad!

2 for 2.
pedro padilla is offline  
Old 12-19-2004, 07:29 PM   #31 (permalink)
Psycho
 
jonjon42's Avatar
 
Location: inside my own mind
I have read the Qur'an. and even did an exercise comparing different translations. I found that the translation read has alot to do with the interpretation of the book. I found overall a positive message much like overall I find the bible a positive message. Yes, both have disturbing parts in them and parts that could mean several million things. These "fundamentalists" take the book twist it to their bidding and give it to the poor uneducated masses. This is the result of that is evident.
__________________
A damn dirty hippie without the dirty part....
jonjon42 is offline  
Old 12-19-2004, 09:50 PM   #32 (permalink)
whosoever
 
martinguerre's Avatar
 
Location: New England
sob-

I think the US is a great country. Such a great one, that i think it shouldn't be hanging out with Iran as one of the few nations left on Earth that supports the execution of minors.

Why keep company with those kind of folks?
__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16
martinguerre is offline  
Old 12-19-2004, 10:42 PM   #33 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smicer
Mindboggling!!! Every post that sheds a negative light on a country other than the U.S. is immediately reverted to point the finger back at the U.S.

The anger and hatred and is truly mindboggling.
I think you missunderstand me.

I do not condone what is happening in Iran. Far from it. However, I don't like finger-pointing and accusations that could easily, and justifiably, be reversed.

I am not angry at America. Nor do I do hate America. I have gone on record, several times, stating that I respect and laud America over most countries. But when I am accused of hatred and anger, either directly or tangentially, then I feel obliged to respond.

What has happened, what continues to happen, in Iran is despicable. My feelings on the death penalty, no matter where it is manifested, are also on record.


Mr Mephisto

Last edited by Mephisto2; 12-19-2004 at 10:48 PM..
Mephisto2 is offline  
Old 12-19-2004, 10:46 PM   #34 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sob
Now someone else has posted my sentiments from an earlier post, in which I suggested a search among some of our members for

1. Anything favorable they've ever said about the US, or
2. Anything bad they've ever said about terrorists.

Good luck.
If those questions are rhetorically aimed at myself, then I can easily refute the implied criticism.

I have consistently and repeatedly condemned all terrorists; be they Iraqi, Palestinian, Irish, American, Sudanese, Chechen or any other nationality.

I also have had a great deal of positive things to say about America. I think you may be confusing criticism of the Bush Administration (for which I make no apology) for criticism of America and American ideals, which I sometimes criticise but more often praise.

Do you want me to do the search for you?


Mr Mephisto

Last edited by Mephisto2; 12-19-2004 at 10:49 PM..
Mephisto2 is offline  
Old 12-19-2004, 10:51 PM   #35 (permalink)
Loser
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sob
Now someone else has posted my sentiments from an earlier post, in which I suggested a search among some of our members for

1. Anything favorable they've ever said about the US, or
2. Anything bad they've ever said about terrorists.

Good luck.
While you're at it, run a search for:

1. Anything negative you've said about the US which is not directed at a Democrat/Liberal or their policies (i.e. Clinton is the devil doesn't count).
2. Anyting positive you've said about Muslims or the Arab world in general.

Good luck.
Manx is offline  
Old 12-20-2004, 03:26 AM   #36 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands (find it on a map, it is there (somewhere))
I agree with Mr. Mephisto. I do not hate the Americans or America, I doubt certain political views the current administration has as well as the death penalty. Furthermore I doubt the political views of almost every politician most of the time (some mor than others including the ones I vote for). That is called thinking for oneself.

As for terrorism, I have no good word for that, ever. However if you (as a country) try to police the globe and point at faults others have, beware of a ricochet effect. For example the death penalty in certain cases in certain staes in the USA are (in my humble opinion) wrong, not "wronger" than in Iran, but hust as wrong.

Furthermore people say that countries should have a stricty divide between church and state, I fully agree. However I sometimes get the impression that the USA does not do that as well as they say others should. Terms as the Bible belt states, the use of religion in election and the obvious influences of religion on certain politicians and their policies make me ill. And again i must restate it also makes me ill to see it in my own country when it happens.
__________________
Somnia, terrores magicos, miracula, sagas,
Nocturnus lemures, portentaque.
Horace
energus is offline  
 

Tags
article, depressing, disabled, execution, iran, mentally, set, year

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:22 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360