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Old 03-21-2005, 12:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Americans heavily disapprove of gov't action in Schiavo case

Looks like the tide of public opinion may be turning against those who shout the loudest.


Quote:
Americans broadly and strongly disapprove of federal intervention in the Terri Schiavo case, with sizable majorities saying Congress is overstepping its bounds for political gain.

The public, by 63 percent-28 percent, supports the removal of Schiavo's feeding tube, and by a 25-point margin opposes a law mandating federal review of her case. Congress passed such legislation and President Bush signed it early today.

That legislative action is distinctly unpopular: Not only do 60 percent oppose it, more — 70 percent — call it inappropriate for Congress to get involved in this way. And by a lopsided 67 percent-19 percent, most think the elected officials trying to keep Schiavo alive are doing so more for political advantage than out of concern for her or for the principles involved.

.......

In addition to the majority, the intensity of public sentiment is also on the side of Schiavo's husband, who has fought successfully in the Florida courts to remove her feeding tube. And intensity runs especially strongly against congressional involvement.

Included among the 63 percent who support removing the feeding tube are 42 percent who "strongly" support it — twice as many as strongly oppose it. And among the 70 percent who call congressional intervention inappropriate are 58 percent who hold that view strongly — an especially high level of strong opinion.


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollV...=599622&page=1
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Old 03-21-2005, 12:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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At last the people see the federal power grab. It's about time.
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Old 03-21-2005, 12:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Actually this is nothing new. There were similar polls by ABC and FOX News earlier in the month.
Almost no one would want to live in the condition Terri is in, so why would they condemn her to that existence unless they were trying to use her to appease their extremist base.
This issue really shows how out of touch with mainstream America both parties (but especially the Republicans) truly are.
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Old 03-21-2005, 12:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Some people just can't resist the urge to interfere with other people's lives based on nothing more than what they've seen in a few 30 second media clips. This is Jerry Springer culture gone haywire.
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Old 03-21-2005, 03:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CShine
Some people just can't resist the urge to interfere with other people's lives based on nothing more than what they've seen in a few 30 second media clips. This is Jerry Springer culture gone haywire.
Something we fully agree on.

I am fully for less government interference in people's lives.

Unfortunately, I've not yet met a politician or lawyer that doesn't think that their own interference isn't the exception.
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Old 03-21-2005, 03:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm old enough to remember when the liberals (Democrats) were the ones accused of wanting more government, and it was the conservative Republicans promising less intrusive government. It's incredible how things change.
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Old 03-21-2005, 03:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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It just depends on what the issue is. Both sides are happy to get their slimey little hands on an issue that they hold dear to them.
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutulu
It just depends on what the issue is. Both sides are happy to get their slimey little hands on an issue that they hold dear to them.
Aint that the truth!

Back to topic:
The statistics of the polls positively surprise me. I'm glad to see people acknowledging the absurdity of the political side of the situation.
I mean, you can be pro- or anti-life (eh doesn't that sound odd ), which ever side of the issue you stand on, the political moves that we're made should raise alarms in anyone.
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Old 03-21-2005, 07:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm glad alot of the American public see this move by Congress as absolutely rediculous...I mean they've gone through what, 10 judges now?
and got turned down by the Supreme Court twice...I think she's had her day in court...
I mean, just go look at the Bill itself. It's just rediculous to make a law to try and mess with the judicial system for one person.
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:32 AM   #10 (permalink)
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You know what? Most of those 70 percent votres for Bush and those assholes. You reap what you sow.

Told you so.

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Old 03-22-2005, 12:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ok on this issue alone, only considering Republicans (Because, yes I know the Dems are beholden to certain groups themselves)

Is it clear to everyone just how beholden to an extremist fringe of christian fundamentalists the Republican party is?
If you believe the polling, and as heavily weighted towards one answer as it is (I do), then even a majority of conservatives, and even evangelicals think the plug should be pulled and that the Republicans are way overstepping their bounds here.

Virtually all the outrage is coming from the Dems, almost no resistance among Republican Legislators.

Never has it been more clear just how much that party is grasped by the balls.
Democrats were this bad back in the 80's. It took wholesale losses to at least get them within spitting distance now of truly being representative of their full party membership.

I don't think most Republicans are like this, and the polling backs that up. What's it going to take to get that party back on track? Are Republicans willing to walk away and let them lose for several decades to force them back into the middle?
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Old 03-22-2005, 12:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Nice post and I wholeheartedly agree SB. The Republicans took back control throughout the 80s from the ashes of a ruined party of the 70s because the Dems did what the Reps are doing now. They built their power on convincing those in the middle, then reward the extreamists when in power.

You all know I'm conservative with the government, but socially I'm pretty liberal. Gay marriage, censorship, and now this just makes me slap myself wishing I could find a Republican who is a little more understanding socially.
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Limbaugh had a lot to say about it today but the worst and I mean the lowest thing I have heard come from Limbaugh in a very long time was,

"People who favor life listen and agree with Rush." So to not listen to Limbaugh, is to not favor life????? To not agree with Limbaugh is to not favor life???????

Rush, until tody I liked ya, but you know what..... go back and take some oxys man and tell how all drug addicts need to be shipped off to prison. Go back and talk about how worthless drug addicts are, as your doctor shopping and living on the ACLU protecting your rights.......

Telling the world that Terry Shiavo's husband just finds her a nuisance and that's why he wants to pull the plug?????? Comparing being basically brain dead and in a vegetative state (and 28 judges so far have agreed, you admitted to it today), to someone on dialysis who is still conscious and able to live a fuctioning life? Do you and does the right have any scruples at all???????

Yet, to sit there and favor a war where 100's of innocents are getting killed, to favor a death penalty for no other reason than those criminals would serve life and be.... (what did you say) "inconvienent"?

Admit the hypocrasy Limbaugh and the right..... it's starting to show full well.... callers to your program even pointed it out to you as you hung up on them.

The only reason you're even touching this is to self serve your political agendas.... you don't give a rat's ass about this person's life. To call her husband a womanizing adulterer..... at least his wife is in a coma Limbaugh.... what about your 3 wives most recently Marta who caught you with that hot CNN producer?

To play 1 nurse's interview who said 10 years ago she would see Terry Shiavo talk and laugh..... while EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON including doctor after doctor has said that would be impossible..... and not give that information out? To play this lady saying, her (Terry's) husband, "would say hasn't that bitch died yet" and produce what she says as fact when noone else has EVER made those claims before and not offer the other side the same courtesy to share..... that's fair?

To think that what spews out of your mouth is GOP approved drivel scares the living Hell out of me..... because your agenda of propaganda is dangerous.

Good luck trying to recover GOP when this blows up in your face.
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
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pan6467...couldn't agree more!
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaver
Nice post and I wholeheartedly agree SB. The Republicans took back control throughout the 80s from the ashes of a ruined party of the 70s because the Dems did what the Reps are doing now. They built their power on convincing those in the middle, then reward the extreamists when in power.
That's pretty much the way things seem to be. The more power a party gets the more bold they are at advancing extremist agendas. Eventually the moderates they attracted will go back to the other side. Then the cycle repeats itself.

Republicans better hope that the voters hava a short memory (they usually do) because this could bring hell on them if people remember.
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:33 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutulu
That's pretty much the way things seem to be. The more power a party gets the more bold they are at advancing extremist agendas. Eventually the moderates they attracted will go back to the other side. Then the cycle repeats itself.

Republicans better hope that the voters hava a short memory (they usually do) because this could bring hell on them if people remember.
I'll remember...
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Old 03-22-2005, 08:38 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Old 03-22-2005, 08:43 PM   #18 (permalink)
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To my way of thinking, politicalizing this situation will be problematic for many years to come. I'm chagrined the party I helped to vote into power is acting the way it is in this particular instance.
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Old 03-22-2005, 10:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Glad people are starting to finally see the true side of the GOP.
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Old 03-22-2005, 10:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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DFL is saintly compared to the GOP, right Hardknock?
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARTelevision
To my way of thinking, politicalizing this situation will be problematic for many years to come. I'm chagrined the party I helped to vote into power is acting the way it is in this particular instance.
That's the funniest thing about it for me- they're so gung-ho to do this thing that they're not paying attention to their voters. Not that he can get elected again, but it represents the overall tone of the party.

[opinion] They're crazy. They're greatly overstepping their bounds in what I believe to be a bullshit political positioning move. They need to shut up, butt out of people's specific personal lives and do their damn jobs properly. [/opinion]
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Here's a hypothetical, it applies to this situation and beyond.

I've seen the polls, some 70 odd percent of the country doesn't agree with the Federal intervention. Largely I can't agree with what is being done in the case of Schiavo, I think it is an aweful thing all around, I think the husband is a straight Douche, all in all it is not easy and it is very ugly. Were I in Terri's situation I would have hoped the plug would be pulled, IF PVS were the reality; the current state may support the PVS, but show things show had things been done in the past to help her she would not be in PVS.

Here's the hypothetical, the longshot that I know just about everyone here won't agree with.

The right thing to do isn't always the popular thing to do, or in other cases it is. We as citizens are afforded the right to be more critical, plus we are entwined with our emotions and convictions. I'm not going to say the GOP is right or wrong for their stance on the issue of Schiavo, chances are they are towing the lines to rally and garner support.

However one thing I hold is, that not all of these men are apart of some great evil empire, some great evil conspiracy. As Chris Rock once said, "Just because you can do something, doesn't make it done right... I could drive the car with my feet, it doesn't make it a good fucking idea."

I don't like this straight upheaval of MY perception of what America once was. You guys can justify it as progression of rights and what not, I can not lie to myself and my convictions. I think everything largely is false, namely Abortion and Euthenasia, it's a philosophical thing. I think we are more and more becoming a culture of death were life is being degraded. Regardless of what I spout here about people world wide, I think everyone is deserving of a shot at life, everyone has worth, some assholes fuck it up and lose it, I really only give people I don't know one shot at it. This won't be the end of it, nor is this the end of my rant, I lost in thought right now, I could partial blame the drowsiness and sauce, actually solely I'll blame that, as such I'm stopping here.
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:09 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm not saying that they're part of any evil empire either. What I am saying is that they are part of the political party that sees a great opportunity to advance their agenda even further at the expense of one particular family. I would love to ask the Republican congress, how come they aren't intervening in every case where the person is brain dead? There has to be hundreds if not thousands across the country. Why this one particular person? Why not any of the others? Why bring so much attention to it? The only reason is to advance their agenda and reap their own political gain. It sure as hell ain't because they value life. If that were the case, then congress would be allowing stem cell research which has the potential to preserve life even further. It might even prevent people to get to the point where Mary is now. But wait, morals get in the way you say? What a crock of shit. One day it's morals and values when they want to keep her alive but on the next day they won't do ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to preserve the life (that includes stem cell research which they say is against their morals) of a woman who had been laying brain dead in a bed for 15 years. A woman who might actually had been able to make a recovery if all options to save her had been explored.

The Republicans are nothing but a band of hippocrates and liars who do the exact opposite of what they say they'll do and I'll be so glad when they finally have egg all over their faces.
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:05 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Does this mean anything to you? probably not seeing how it comes from a conservative source.

Quote:
ABC Caught: Schiavo Poll Distorted
by Michelle Malkin
Posted Mar 23, 2005


However you feel about the Terri Schiavo case, one fact is indisputable: The mainstream media (MSM) coverage of the matter has been abysmal.

On a fundamental matter of life and death, the MSM heavyweights have proven themselves utterly incapable of reporting fairly. Take a widely publicized ABC News poll released on Monday that supposedly showed strong public opposition to any Washington intervention in Terri's case. Here is how the spinmasters framed the main poll question:

"As you may know, a woman in Florida named Terri Schiavo suffered brain damage and has been on life support for 15 years. Doctors say she has no consciousness and her condition is irreversible. Her parents and her husband disagree on whether or not she should be kept on life support. In cases like this who do you think should have final say, (the parents) or (the spouse)?"

A follow-up question asked:

"If you were in this condition, would you want to be kept alive, or not?"

The problem is that, contrary to what ABC News told those polled, Terri Schiavo is not on "life support" and has never been on "life support." The loaded phrase evokes images of a comatose patient being artificially sustained by myriad machines and pumps and wires. Terri was on a feeding tube. A feeding tube is not a ventilator. Terri can breathe just fine on her own.

And as many of her medical caretakers and parents have argued, if given proper rehabilitation, Terri could learn to chew and swallow on her own as well. She is disabled, not dead.

But ABC News did not see fit to inform either the poll takers or its viewers of the truth. Instead, it misled them -- and the result was a poll response that produced -- voila! -- "broad public disapproval" for any government intervention to spare Terri from slowly starving to death. Blogger Ed Morrissey of Captain's Quarters noted: "Either ABC is completely incompetent in conducting research, or they have attempted to fool their viewers and readership with false polling that essentially lies about the case in question. Since when does ABC conduct push polling for euthanasia?"

Imagine how the poll results might have turned out if ABC News had made clear to participants that Terri is not terminally ill. Not in excruciating pain. Capable of saying "Mommy" and "Help me." And of "getting the feeling she's falling" or getting "excited," in her husband's own testimony, when her head is not held properly.

Imagine how the poll results might have turned out if ABC News had informed participants that in a sworn affidavit, registered nurse Carla Sauer Iyer, who worked at the Palm Garden of Largo Convalescent Center in Largo, Fla., while Terri Schiavo was a patient there, testified: "Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death. Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that b---h gonna die?'"

Now, if you were in this situation, would you want to be kept alive, or not?

Not to pick on ABC News, but, well, let's. In an attempt to embarrass Rep. Dave Weldon (R.-Fla.) who noted that withdrawing food and water from someone like Schiavo was extremely rare, ABC's Jake Tapper last week featured this counter-quote from Prof. Bill Allen, of the University of Florida College of Medicine:

"Feeding tubes have been removed in the United States for many years, and it's been a common practice. This has happened in many cases, probably a hundred thousand times in this country."

"A hundred thousand times"? There have been a hundred thousand cases of non-terminally ill, non-brain dead individuals slowly starved and forced to die in this country? Tapper demanded no proof from his professor. Instead, he dismissed lawmakers as ignoramuses contradicted by "experts," cited the biased ABC News poll cited above, and tossed it back to Jennings with this slam: "Terri Schiavo and her family deserved better than the way Congress worked this week."

Meanwhile, contradicting the experience of every starved child in Africa and abandoned street animal at your SPCA shelter, the New York Times informs us: "Experts Say Ending Feeding Can Lead to a Gentle Death."

Is it any wonder the credibility of the MSM is withering on the vine?
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=6942
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:20 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I see nothing wrong with how the questions are worded and reading it, it is obvious to anyone who doesn't already know about Malkin's predilections just how heavily she paints with her own ideology.

Everything she argues (i.e she can learn to chew) has been sufficiently discounted in a court of law as false.
ABC has a duty to report their questions based on what the law of america has now 9 times deemed the facts.
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Old 03-23-2005, 03:51 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Stevo, that article does exactly what it accuses abc of doing, namely, attempting to pass of one side of the issue as truth. Unfortunately for them, their side isn't supported by countless court rulings.
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Old 03-23-2005, 04:10 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Actually Ms.Malkin, a feeding tube IS life support. That has been affirmed by the Supreme Court and any competent doctor or lawyer could tell you that.
Even if you don't accept that, ABC is not the only organization to produce these polling results. Fox News and now CNN/Gallup have produced polls with similar results, without the so-called "loaded phrase".
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Old 03-23-2005, 04:10 PM   #28 (permalink)
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the huge error on michelle malkins part is that in the state of florida and florida law feeding tubes are considered part of the 'life support' equipment.
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Old 03-23-2005, 06:02 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filtherton
Stevo, that article does exactly what it accuses abc of doing, namely, attempting to pass of one side of the issue as truth. Unfortunately for them, their side isn't supported by countless court rulings.
Nor is it supported by the doctors who have examined her the last dozen or so years.

If what that article said was true, then it would indeed be murder.

But it's not true.

It's the propaganda of the Right-to-Life movement, for whom ANY "pulling of the plug" is forbidden and they will twist the facts to support their position.

I know this from personal experience.
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Old 03-23-2005, 07:43 PM   #30 (permalink)
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[quote]The Shame of ABC
A bogus poll to back up the sneering.
By Mickey Kaus
Updated Wednesday, March 23, 2005, at 4:23 PM PT


I hadn't realized that the surprising ABC poll about the Schiavo case--showing overwhelming anti-tube sentiment--was so badly worded and biased. (For one thing, it deceptively tells pollees that Terri Schiavo is on "life support." * For another, it leads with the flat assertion that "Doctors say she has no consciousness and her condition is irreversible."**) Michelle Malkin and "Captain Ed" Morrissey are onto the ABC poll. ... Malkin, Morrissey and Powerline also raise doubts about that clumsy Republican talking points memo that ABC's Linda Douglass first trumpeted. I'm not so sure that you'd expect a letterhead on such a hastily-drawn memo, or even the correct bill title. It's not like it's a blog or something formal! It's less clear that the memo was written by anyone in the GOP leadership as opposed to a pro-life lobbying group, as Malkin points out. Yet unless you listened very carefully to Douglass' slyly worded report you got the distinct impression that it was a Republican leadership document. (ABC's own web site headlined the story "GOP Talking Points on Terri Schiavo ") ... Anyway, why should it be news--obscuring the actual merits of the case--that politics is involved in federal legislation? The civil rights movement was a political constituency too. ... ABC's performance during this whole story --starting with its sneering Friday coverage--has been pretty much a disgrace. ...

*Update--Many readers have pointed out that a feeding tube is defined as "life support" by at least one medical authority. But using the word at the start of a poll of laypersons conjures up far more elaborate support systems--e.g. heart and lung machines. If not "false"--as this post originally characterized it--the phrase is highly misleading. (I disagree with MP on this. The question is not whether the phrase is technically defensible, but whether it's reasonably calculated to produce an accurate poll of what people think. It's no defense to say, as ABC's Gary Langer does, that the language was taken from the very court decision that is the point of controversy. A court, even in its outline of "facts," is going to use language that buttresses its conclusion.)

**--Dr. Krauthammer, who winds up calling Congress' action a "travesty," nevertheless disagrees with the ABC poll's flat assertion on the issue of consciousness:

The husband has not allowed a lot of medical testing in the past few years. I have tried to find out what her neurological condition actually is. But the evidence is sketchy, old and conflicting. The Florida court found that most of her cerebral cortex is gone. But "most" does not mean all. There may be some cortex functioning. The severely retarded or brain-damaged can have some consciousness.

OK, time to demonize this right wing Christian nutjob
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Old 03-23-2005, 08:36 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I believe we need to pull the feeding tube on all the threads about this case.
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Old 03-26-2005, 09:41 AM   #32 (permalink)
 
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a question about the advertising/announcing of schiavo stories on television news:

caveat: i rarely watch television. i find it repellent.

but

last night i was in my local publick house as the "news" was being transmitted across the television monitor and i noticed the schiavo graphics: a comrade pointed it out by remarking that if you look at the picture you would not imagine that chiavo's parents are in their 80s or something.
the photo was obviously from before she descended into the state she has been in for 13 years or so....

if you graft that photo--which appeared five or six times in various teasers and related story graphics, onto the information being relayed about her case, you would think that this image reflected the state terri schiavo was currently in, and that, were the right's "morality" crusade to work out, she would get up out of bed and look more or less the same way. the photo also functions to slide the age of her parents down, and so to make this whole case line up a bit more with a kind of "normal" parental age, and the situation itself with a "normal" situation gone awry.

how systematic has this kind of presentation been?
has anyone noticed?
how much a role do you think this plays in mobilizing (or not) the foxnews set around this question?
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Old 03-27-2005, 03:00 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Someone needs to give her poison so we can hurry up and get this over with.
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Old 03-28-2005, 12:47 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stompy
Someone needs to give her poison so we can hurry up and get this over with.
Poison? No man. Bourbon! A nice drip of Bookers with ice chips on the lips until BAC hits 5.something and she checks out. I think I might have to put that in my living will.
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