Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Politics


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-23-2005, 10:25 AM   #1 (permalink)
Crazy
 
GOP on the brink of losing on the nuclear option

This story coming from the hardline right-wing Washington Times, no less. When a right-wing source is printing a story about how the Republicans are losing on an issue, it doesn't exactly bode well for their future on the matter. Looks like this nuclear option thing could turn out to be no more than a lot of hot air.


Quote:
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist does not have firm support among his caucus to employ the so-called "nuclear option" for dislodging the Democratic filibusters against President Bush's judicial nominees.

Of the 55 Republicans in the chamber, at least six are undecided or adamantly opposed to the plan of using the rare parliamentary procedure to end the filibusters with a simple majority vote, rather than the 60 votes normally required.

"I am very concerned about the overuse of the filibuster," said Sen. Susan Collins, a Maine Republican who said she remains undecided. "But I am also concerned that a rule change will further charge the partisan atmosphere to the point that we will not be able to conduct business."

Mr. Frist said in an interview with The Washington Times last month that he was "confident" he has the votes to put an end to the filibusters against seven of Mr. Bush's nominees to the federal appeals courts.

In addition to Miss Collins, three other Republicans say they are undecided but have serious reservations. They are Sens. John W. Warner of Virginia, John McCain of Arizona and Chuck Hagel of Nebraska.

"I have not reached a firm view on the matter," Mr. Warner said. "However, I tend to be a traditionalist, and the right of unlimited debate has been a hallmark of the Senate since its inception."

Hagel spokesman Mike Buttry said his boss "wants to see how the debate plays out."

"He is very frustrated with the treatment of the judges," Mr. Buttry said. "At the same time, he was here in the '70s, when there was a Democrat in the White House and the filibuster was a very important tool for Republicans."

Firmly opposed to the measure are Republican Sens. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island and Olympia J. Snowe of Maine, who cite concerns about protecting the minority party and avoiding a Democratic promise to halt most Senate business. Assuming that no Democrats support Mr. Frist, that brings support for the measure to just 49 senators, one shy of the number he needs.
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...1608-8533r.htm
CShine is offline  
Old 03-23-2005, 10:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
Born Against
 
raveneye's Avatar
 
On the other hand, the conservative Republicans are even more in favor of the anti-filibuster bill than they were before the Schiavo case, since they see the judge who ordered the tube removed as evil incarnate. If judges are going to be activists, they should be conservative activists, is the subtext of Jerry Falwell's comment:
Quote:
''Just because there is a judge somewhere in the world who would give an estranged husband like that the time of day tells you how bad the court system is,'' the Rev. Jerry Falwell said.
And "bad" essentially means judges who are not conservative Christians.

I think the Schiavo case shows quite clearly how important the courts are as a check on the arbitrary political maneuverings of Congress, and on its arrogance of power. And by extension, how important an unbiased judiciary is in maintaining the checks and balances of our system of government.

Packing the judiciary with first-tier Bush nominees (the intended consequence of the anti-filibuster bill) is not what I would call blind justice.
raveneye is offline  
Old 03-23-2005, 11:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
Lennonite Priest
 
pan6467's Avatar
 
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
Well this and the Schiavo case among other things are becoming nuclear to the GOP itself. The party is showing itself to be power hungry, for the rich, while they raise hidden taxes and give themselves pay raises.

I saw it elsewhere on here, when 1 party has total power they self destruct.

I firmly believe that GOP rule will fast come to an end. And I think some of the desperation moves they are making shows they know it is coming also. The pendulum is swinging back to the left...... let's just hope the Dems. cease the moment.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"
pan6467 is offline  
Old 03-23-2005, 12:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
NCB
Junkie
 
NCB's Avatar
 
Location: Tobacco Road
Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
Well this and the Schiavo case among other things are becoming nuclear to the GOP itself. The party is showing itself to be power hungry, for the rich, while they raise hidden taxes and give themselves pay raises.

I saw it elsewhere on here, when 1 party has total power they self destruct.

I firmly believe that GOP rule will fast come to an end. And I think some of the desperation moves they are making shows they know it is coming also. The pendulum is swinging back to the left...... let's just hope the Dems. cease the moment.

Is this why you're rooting for death in the TS case?? Please tell me that you don't believe that her death will mean more Dem seats!!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christine Stewart, Former Minister of the Environment of Canada
"No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits.... Climate change [provides] the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world."
NCB is offline  
Old 03-23-2005, 01:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
Lennonite Priest
 
pan6467's Avatar
 
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
NO>>>> AND THAT I TAKE OFFENSE TO BECAUSE THAT IS A GOP FUCKING GAME.

I don't want this Schiavo case to be a political power play and the GOP did. They chose to stand above the courts and play games so they can point fingers like you and say "SEEE DEMS WANT DEATH...." it's fucking bullshit and proves that the GOP rushed this to be able to play that game..... but it is backfiring, it's showing the people, the voters, that the GOP doesn't care about the guardians rights, doesn't care what all these courts say.... doesn't care how the voters feel.... only what the GOP deems right and therefore they want to condemn others.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"
pan6467 is offline  
Old 03-23-2005, 01:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
NCB
Junkie
 
NCB's Avatar
 
Location: Tobacco Road
Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
NO>>>> AND THAT I TAKE OFFENSE TO BECAUSE THAT IS A GOP FUCKING GAME.

I don't want this Schiavo case to be a political power play and the GOP did. They chose to stand above the courts and play games so they can point fingers like you and say "SEEE DEMS WANT DEATH...." it's fucking bullshit and proves that the GOP rushed this to be able to play that game..... but it is backfiring, it's showing the people, the voters, that the GOP doesn't care about the guardians rights, doesn't care what all these courts say.... doesn't care how the voters feel.... only what the GOP deems right and therefore they want to condemn others.
1. They choose to take a stand as their Cont. powers dictate...via Article III
2. Sorry you took offense to that, but can you see why I came to that conclusion? I was shocked when I read what you wrote. But if that was not your intent, then I do apologize.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christine Stewart, Former Minister of the Environment of Canada
"No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits.... Climate change [provides] the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world."
NCB is offline  
Old 03-23-2005, 01:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: bedford, tx
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCB
Is this why you're rooting for death in the TS case?? Please tell me that you don't believe that her death will mean more Dem seats!!
kinda lacking in class on this one. nobody WANTS her dead, alot of people just want her to be at peace with her wishes of not being sustained on life support of any type. thats off topic though for this thread.


As far as the nuclear option goes, the GOP holdouts remember their filibustering days all too well in the past. They also know what will happen if there are ever 51 dems in the senate also. They need to recognize that its not going to be worth pushing this hard for their anti-abortion agenda over 9 judges.
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
dksuddeth is offline  
Old 03-23-2005, 01:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: bedford, tx
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCB
1. They choose to take a stand as their Cont. powers dictate...via Article III.
I see nothing in article III that says congress/senate bodies can pass legislation for one person and one person alone.
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
dksuddeth is offline  
Old 03-23-2005, 02:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Seaver's Avatar
 
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Quote:
This story coming from the hardline right-wing Washington Times, no less.
Washington Times is hardlined right-wing? WOW.... they've been one of the few NE'stern newspapers who haven't been found making up stories or purposely changing facts.... but they're hardlined rightwing.
Seaver is offline  
Old 03-23-2005, 03:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
Upright
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaver
Washington Times is hardlined right-wing? WOW.... they've been one of the few NE'stern newspapers who haven't been found making up stories or purposely changing facts.... but they're hardlined rightwing.
I don't know what you know about the Wash. Times, but they are ALWAYS change facts. Just a few examples:
In the March 10 edition of The Washington Times, reporters Bill Sammon and Amy Fagan falsely claimed that under current law, the Social Security system will "become unable to pay any benefits as early as 2042." In fact, according to the most recent projections by the Social Security trustees, the system will be able to pay promised benefits in full until 2042, at which point it would still be able to cover 73 percent of scheduled benefits. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projects that the system will be able to fully pay promised benefits into 2052, at which point it would still be able to cover 78 percent of scheduled benefits.
In the March 10 edition of The Washington Times, reporters Bill Sammon and Amy Fagan falsely claimed that under current law, the Social Security system will "become unable to pay any benefits as early as 2042." In fact, according to the most recent projections by the Social Security trustees, the system will be able to pay promised benefits in full until 2042, at which point it would still be able to cover 73 percent of scheduled benefits. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projects that the system will be able to fully pay promised benefits into 2052, at which point it would still be able to cover 78 percent of scheduled benefits.
Washington Times chief political correspondent Donald Lambro touted a misleading claim from the conservative Tax Foundation that "President Bush's tax cuts further reduced the tax burden of low- and middle-income taxpayers, and shifted the tax burden onto wealthy taxpayers." In fact, an August 2004 Congressional Budget Office (CBO) study showed that Bush's tax cuts shifted the overall federal tax burden so that a larger share now falls onto the middle class, while high-income Americans now pay a smaller share.
__________________
"America is not always right—that's a fairy tale you tell your
children. But America is always true. And it's in seeking this truth
that we find a deeper patriotism. Remember, the country we carry in
our hearts is waiting." - Bruce Springsteen
magnacarta is offline  
Old 03-23-2005, 07:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
Psycho
 
jonjon42's Avatar
 
Location: inside my own mind
I dunno if they are "hard" right wing, but they are certainly right wing...and crazy (moonies)

anyway, I think the republicans should be worried about what will happen when they are no longer top dog in the legislature. (bound to happen eventually) this rule change could come back to haunt them for years to come. That is why I believe they won't make the rule change.
__________________
A damn dirty hippie without the dirty part....
jonjon42 is offline  
Old 03-23-2005, 08:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
Minion of the scaléd ones
 
Tophat665's Avatar
 
Location: Northeast Jesusland
What the suffering f*ck does Terri Schaivo have to do with fillibuster rule?

No, don't answer that. I don't honestly care what today's talking points are.

I am stunned, amazed, shocked, and awed that John Warner might, possibly, be reverting to the kind of sensible guy he was when I voted for him the first time I ever voted. Won't get him my vote this time, but it sure is nice to see that the brain still ticks.

Look, nuclear is apt here. Democratic senators see (in my opinion, rightly, but leave that aside) Shrub's re-nomination of judges they already blocked as a ploy to geld them. If they let them through, then they lose some of their base on the one hand, and they will find it hard to implement many of their priorities when they come back to power. If they filibuster, things are going to get ugly in the senate like hasn't been seen since the Civil War. If they do a half assed job of it, and if they don't communicate effectively what they are doing, then they will lose even more seats (possibly to the point where this won't even come up.) If the Democrats threaten to filibuster and are balked by anything other than 60 votes, then they absolutely, positivley must, as a matter of survival, filibuster every single other thing with a Republican sponsor until the rule is changed. They cannot do otherwise and retain such tatters of credibility as they have managed to hang onto thus far.

Moderate republicans - both of them - are against this asinine idea because they know it will shut the Senate down, and they know that there really are some important things that the Senate has to do. Intelligent conservative Republicans know that, one day they will lose the whip hand, either to the Democratic party, or to whatever replaces it if it disintegrates entirely. Fundamentalist Christian Conservative Republicans, on the other hand, are following a life script that hasn't really been valid for at least a millennium, and they are letting their emotions (as opposed to their religion) rule them like petulant and ill tempered children. I'm all for spankings in those cases. And then there are those who are toeing the party line as a step in developing their power who can't really be blamed for it, but surely deserve no praise either.

I am pretty sure that Rove is looking to crush the Democratic party for a generation or more with this. Evil genius indeed.
__________________
Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Tophat665 is offline  
 

Tags
brink, gop, losing, nuclear, option

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:12 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360