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Old 04-05-2005, 04:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Canada: Is the Gomery Inquiry going to bring down the Liberals?

I think it may be election time in Canada before too long...

Thumbing his nose at the publication ban, this blog gives details about John Brault's testimony at the Gomery Commission... when this breaks out it will bring down the government...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1376471/posts

What do you think?
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Old 04-05-2005, 04:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Thanks Charlatan, I was looking for that since I heard the story on the CBC this morning.

More than likely this will lead to the end for the Liberals, which is too bad, as that means the Reform Party (call 'em what you like, but at the end of the day it's the reform party) will likely step to power. Farewell Canadian liberalisim.
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Old 04-05-2005, 05:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't know... there are still a lot of people who don't trust the Conservatives... If they win, I see them in minority position... with the BLoc and NDP holding the balance of power.
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Old 04-05-2005, 05:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Good god, I will honestly consider moving to a cabin in the woods for the duration of their mandate if the Conservatives under Stephen Harper come to power.

I am highly disappointed that the publication ban was broken... If this testimony becomes widespread, they won't be able to receive a fair trial. That's a charter right, no matter how corrupt or vile you are as a person.
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Old 04-05-2005, 05:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I hate corruption more than I love liberalism....I hope they get tossed out.
A conservative minority gov won't be so bad
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Old 04-05-2005, 06:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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One really has to wonder of the Liberal mindset when the ON Liberals tried to factor in 12 years of cost savings into 1 year. I'm no economist/accountant but I even knew that they can't do that. I just wonder how stupid they think we are?
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Old 04-05-2005, 07:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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So now what the !@#$% do we (the voters) do??? The last thing I want is another election. I couldn't vote for Mr Harper's kind of intolerance but neither could I reward the liberals with yet another four years to squander our money.

Let's start by throwing the corrupt bastards in jail. Then let's start a new party with Mr Harper's fiscal policies and Mr Martin's social policies.

The saddest part is that even this is all smoke and mirrors to what really goes on in Canada. The real movement of money in this country never sees the front page of any newspapers.
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Old 04-05-2005, 10:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If there's another election, I'll be living in a strong Conservative riding instead of my pleasant NDP riding where I go to school.

Makes me sad... There really isn't a good choice for Canadians who want responsible government.
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Old 04-06-2005, 06:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Here is the actual blogger how is breaking the publication ban... his blog contains new info as well as his rationalizations for breaking the ban... It looks like Brault's testamony is starting to show there were links to the current Martin regime...

My disgust with this scam was reserved for the previous administration... but now it is looking like the dry rot is in the LIberals through and through...



http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/
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Old 04-06-2005, 07:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Will it bring them down? ultimetly I suppose it depends on Ontario, as always. They're probably all but done in Quebec, the West will go Conservative again.
It will probably be a minorty Conservative Goovernment, the only question will be if it's a 2 party minority or a 3 party.
Personally, I wanna see a Conservitive minority, with a green party combination for a majority, but it ain't gonna happen unfortunetly..
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Old 04-06-2005, 09:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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In other news, BC Conservative MP being investigated for asking for $100,000 "bonds" from constituents requesting immigration assistance...
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Last edited by JJRousseau; 04-06-2005 at 12:11 PM..
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Old 04-06-2005, 09:23 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Not to butt in, but this is interesting to me.

Having never really paid attention to Canadian politics, this and a previous thread have caught my interest (previous thread = the one about political identification in Canada).

This statement really stood out here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades
I am highly disappointed that the publication ban was broken... If this testimony becomes widespread, they won't be able to receive a fair trial. That's a charter right, no matter how corrupt or vile you are as a person.
Having read this story earlier in the week, I am confused about Canadian control over the media.

It seems that the Canadian gov't has the power to control the media, right?

According to Ace_O_Spades this is a good thing? Or am I reading his statement wrong?

How could a media ban on something like this be a good thing?

Obviously, I look at this from our standpoint, where, if our gov't put a total media ban on any subject/story/issue, pretty much the whole country would get seriously pissed. I know the gov't tries to kill stories when it fits their need, but I don't see them as capable of putting a complete ban in place, nor do I see a complete ban being successful.

Can you enlighten me on this?
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Old 04-06-2005, 09:49 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I think there should be criminal trials starting right from Jean Chretien and going down the ladder. The utter misuse and defrauding of Canadian taxpayers money is nothing short of pathetic.

And for what? To keep Quebec from pooh poohing about how they are distinct and not treated as such. Poor babies. Let's up the yearly Official Bilingualism tab from 1 billion to 2 billion so as enough Kleenix is available for those whose crocodile tears are flooding the St. Lawrence.

Like I said in another thread, maybe one day some politicians won't succumb to be blackmailed by language and the bullshit notion that Quebec is distinct and different from everyone else will cease. I've been across this country more times than I can remember and every PROVINCE is distinct and it's inhabitants are all EQUALLY Canadian.

As for an election. I really don't care anymore. I said last summer if after a decade of corruption, the Liberals still win, I'll never vote again. I don't know if I will or not. Since the norm from the top down to be corrupt, lie, steal etc,..as our government does, I'm thinking why not get a piece of the pie myself. Every year I pay enough in taxes to buy a brand new car, and not a piece shit either. I'm fed up and then to add to my consternation I look at the idiots who are in line to run the country. Wonderful.

But it won't change. The Liberals are the victims now and I'm sure that will bode well for them. Boo hoo hoo. But I can't place all the blame on them. They are afterall, elected democratically by the citizens of this country. It's to bad so many Canadians don't give a shit about their money being wasted. I wish I had that much so as not to give a shit too.
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Old 04-06-2005, 02:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splck
I hate corruption more than I love liberalism....I hope they get tossed out.
A conservative minority gov won't be so bad
I must agree with this.

Reading the link is enough to make you sick. Thanks Charlattan by the way.

I have always respected Paul Martin's ability to run the country in an efficient manner and keep the spending under control. I don't think he was involved with this. I am sure that Chretien was the man behind it all and he should be tried in a criminal court (maybe he could bring a few golf balls for good measure.)

BUT, the liberals have become so accustomed to power that they feel that they can operate with impunity. I can't accept that they think that they are above the law of what's right and wrong, and clearly that has become the case with them. The time has come to teach the liberals that their days of operating the country like their own little fifdom have come to a screaching end.

If Mike Harris was at the helm of the Conservatives, I would vote for him in a second.

But Harper? I'd sooner just not vote.
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Old 04-06-2005, 03:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMA-628
Not to butt in, but this is interesting to me.

Having never really paid attention to Canadian politics, this and a previous thread have caught my interest (previous thread = the one about political identification in Canada).

This statement really stood out here:

Having read this story earlier in the week, I am confused about Canadian control over the media.

It seems that the Canadian gov't has the power to control the media, right?

According to Ace_O_Spades this is a good thing? Or am I reading his statement wrong?

How could a media ban on something like this be a good thing?

Obviously, I look at this from our standpoint, where, if our gov't put a total media ban on any subject/story/issue, pretty much the whole country would get seriously pissed. I know the gov't tries to kill stories when it fits their need, but I don't see them as capable of putting a complete ban in place, nor do I see a complete ban being successful.

Can you enlighten me on this?
You aren't quite understanding this... The US has in camera sessions all the time... from GWBush being question by the 911 commision to grand jury hearings.

The Paul Bernardo/Karla Homolka trial had a publication ban for a number of reasons, the main one was to protect the victims.

I don't have a problem with this at all.

In this case, I am truly mixed about the ban. The sessions in question are open to the public, anyone can go to the sessions and watch. You can tell people about it but you just can publish this information... at this time. The ban will be lifted at some point in the future (most likely when Brault and Guite's court cases occur). The concept is that getting this information out to a broad public will taint the population base and an unbaised jury will be difficult to find.

My issue is the same as the blogger's... this is IMPORTANT information. The Public is not stupid. They do not need to be sheltered and can be responsible jurors even with foreknowledge.
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Old 04-06-2005, 04:42 PM   #16 (permalink)
it's jam
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMA-628

It seems that the Canadian gov't has the power to control the media, right?

Can you enlighten me on this?
It's a court ordered media ban, not a government ordered ban (no such thing). The ban is set to allow the charged a fair trial (no stories on the news that could taint a potential juror's thinking).
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Old 04-06-2005, 07:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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O.K., so it is basically the same thing as a "gag order" for us.

I didn't catch the "court-ordered" part.
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Old 04-09-2005, 10:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
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According to Todays News... The Conservatives are actually planning for the election...

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...ery050409.html

as the stomach turns

If this link doesn't work just go to www.cbc.ca it is in the headlines for today April 9th
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Old 04-09-2005, 12:32 PM   #19 (permalink)
The Death Card
 
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GRRR, if they call an election then the gay marriage legislation gets wiped off the slate.

I guess that's ONE way for the Conservatives to push their religious agenda... If you can't stop progress, you can at least subvert it.
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Old 04-10-2005, 04:01 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades
GRRR, if they call an election then the gay marriage legislation gets wiped off the slate.

I guess that's ONE way for the Conservatives to push their religious agenda... If you can't stop progress, you can at least subvert it.

BINGO!

I beleive that you have hit the proverbial "Nail" on the head!

RCALYRA...
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Old 04-11-2005, 08:02 AM   #21 (permalink)
 
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Gay marriage may be one of the issues that keeps the population voting Liberal (or, NDP or Bloc)

Remember, even if there is an election, that does not mean we won't be in the exact same position again.

The current split in the house is
Liberals: 133
Conservatives: 99
Bloc: 54
NDP: 19
Independant: 2
Vacant: 1
http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/ab...tandings-e.htm

Who can say how the seats will be split after the next election.
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Old 04-11-2005, 09:59 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I hate to do the linkedy link, but here's some for thought:



As well, this webpage has the more interesting things I want to bring up:
Politics Canada

If you take a look at the Politics Canada webpage, I want you to take a look at the polls on the left hand side. Scary eh? This Story from last week talks about how the Cons now have a 40% to 33% advantage over the Libs in Ontario.

Next comes the raining frogs. Then the rivers running of blood....

On a VERY interesting yet unlikely sidenote; many polls in there show the Greens getting a few seats. Now if people would just stick with their polling decisions and not throw their vote away at the polls, thinking it unlikely the party could follow through and win a seat...
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Old 04-11-2005, 10:38 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Well, I don't think it is in the best interests of the PCs to call an election yet. The fact that they are planning for an election is just prudent given what is going on. Because they certainly couldn't stop one if the Libs called one early.

I'm at the point that I'd vote for anyone other than the Libs. Given what I have read there is NO WAY I could vote for them. If they get re-elected after this, all accountability will be gone. And in my mind, that would be worse than Mr Harper's band of merry men.
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Old 04-11-2005, 12:53 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades
GRRR, if they call an election then the gay marriage legislation gets wiped off the slate.

I guess that's ONE way for the Conservatives to push their religious agenda... If you can't stop progress, you can at least subvert it.

As I understand it, this is a moot point, as many provinces have already decided to allow gay marriage. Or I could be wrong.
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Old 04-11-2005, 01:00 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalgeek
Will it bring them down? ultimetly I suppose it depends on Ontario, as always. .

well, that's where most of the people live which is what counts in a democracy.
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Old 04-11-2005, 01:06 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antikarma

Key=1531&editorType=news&editorPrimeKeyword=poll&editorLink=]

This Story from last week[/URL] talks about how the Cons now have a 40% to 33% advantage over the Libs in Ontario.

Next comes the raining frogs. Then the rivers running of blood....
I don't think it's odd to have a Ontario voting Conservative. We had the PCs in power for 8 years during the '90's (after getting burned by the liberals and the NDP) and in the '70's to '80's it was Bill Davis' & company Big Blue Machine that held power for so long.
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Old 04-11-2005, 01:17 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Actually, about 1/3 of the people of Canada live in Ontario. Another 1/4 live in Quebec.

So, without significant Ontario or Quebec support, you cannot form a majority government in Canada.

The Reform Party mark 3 has a history of villianizing Quebec that makes it hard for them to get Quebec support. The party currently dominant in Quebec has no interest in forming a federal party.

So, we have a situation where you need Ontario + 20% of the rest of the non-central parts of the country (ie, non-Quebec and non-Ontario) to form a majority government, from the perspective of parties that cannot aquire Quebec.

Now, this doesn't seem fair.

But, you could also get the non-central parts of the country, plus about 20% of Ontario, and form a majority government.

(the rest of the math relies on my 1/3 and 1/4 for Ontario and Quebec)
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Old 04-11-2005, 07:39 PM   #28 (permalink)
The Death Card
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakk
Now, this doesn't seem fair.
How do you think BC voters have felt forever?

The election is usually over before the BC polls even close
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Old 04-12-2005, 06:54 AM   #29 (permalink)
 
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New Poll:

Liberals at 27% support: poll
http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/A...hub=topstories
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Old 04-12-2005, 08:18 AM   #30 (permalink)
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From my point of view it was nice to see that testimony arose showing Jean Chretien actually made a personal call to an adfirm to solicite them to do whatever. It would make my year to see that asshole go to jail. Won't happen though. It would happen to me or you but not him. Some guy just following orders will take the fall.

Looks like the Libs are going down. I'd bet Chretien get's a boner at seeing Paul Martin going down the drain. I hope the drain is big enough for him and the rest of them too. Not gone and forgotten though. Gone and in jail just like you or me.
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Old 04-12-2005, 09:10 AM   #31 (permalink)
The Death Card
 
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NDP minority gov't!

hey... I can dream.

It's becoming clear that the liberals are out very soon... I really would have liked to see the gay marriage legislation passed before they do though... con sarnit.
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Old 04-12-2005, 09:20 AM   #32 (permalink)
Wehret Den Anfängen!
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades
How do you think BC voters have felt forever?

The election is usually over before the BC polls even close
I said seem fair, not that it isn't fair.

A person's vote in BC is worth exactly the same as a person's vote in the maritimes, and more than a person's vote in Toronto.
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Old 04-12-2005, 10:34 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Hey, I wanted bill C-38 passed before they disolved the last parliament. Then all this shit happens.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are very far from smokin' de herb with our gay spouse.

Maybe if we threatened to seperate (seriously) the feds will throw money at us, and stop taking us for granted.

Just a thought.
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Old 04-12-2005, 10:42 AM   #34 (permalink)
Junkie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades
NDP minority gov't!

hey... I can dream.

It's becoming clear that the liberals are out very soon... I really would have liked to see the gay marriage legislation passed before they do though... con sarnit.

Ouch! that would hurt... I'm just getting my tax strategy under control.
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Old 04-12-2005, 10:43 AM   #35 (permalink)
Junkie
 
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Location: Toronto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakk
I said seem fair, not that it isn't fair.

A person's vote in BC is worth exactly the same as a person's vote in the maritimes, and more than a person's vote in Toronto.

yes. that doesn't seem fair at all. * shrugs * we get used to it tho.
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Old 04-12-2005, 12:31 PM   #36 (permalink)
Junk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen931

Maybe if we threatened to seperate (seriously) the feds will throw money at us, and stop taking us for granted.
No, that has only worked and will only work for one province. Name that province and I'll give you a bag of weed and introduce you to my gay sister.

The rest of us have to shut up and believe in the great Canadian way where we are all commoners and one group of people are distinct, whatever that means.
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Old 04-29-2005, 12:33 PM   #37 (permalink)
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It's hard to decide whom to vote for or even if it is worth voting. If an election is forced, we will have to make decisions based on incomplete information from the inquiry. If we wait until the end, we may have to vote for Conservatives not unlike the ones who caused so many problems here in Ontario. We could of course vote for the party led by a man with a Col. Klink complex. It's hard being a passive Canadian at this point.

Last edited by samiam; 04-29-2005 at 12:34 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-03-2005, 12:05 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Location: Canada
Nuts to this. I'm voting marijuana party next election!

Seriously, I don't like the options that remain. Martin's a wad, but the idea of Steve Harper in charge of our nation doesn't exactly give me a warm, fuzzy feeling either. Is it really so surprising that voter turnouts are so low these days? We don't have any particularly inspiring candidates to vote for.

On the bright side, at least we don't have to worry about Stockwell Day leading out nation anymore.
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Old 05-03-2005, 06:48 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OFKU0
Name that province and I'll give you a bag of weed and introduce you to my gay sister.
Is it Quebec?
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Old 05-03-2005, 07:56 AM   #40 (permalink)
Junk
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBen931
Is it Quebec?
So what do you want first? The dope or my sister?

Getting back to Gomery, if an election were called I still think the Fiberals would win. Radio, t.v., newspapers are all teething on the ever present complacency of Canadians. How could any righteous Canadian become tired and bored of our government wasting incredible amounts of money. It truely baffles me. And people continue to bring up Mulroney. What Mulroney did wasn't even a drop in the bucket compared with the Liberals. Maybe if Canadians had to pay back that money, their money that was wasted through successive scandals, they might have a more proactive sense of loss.

But not to worry. Jean Chretien will enter the scene, shut down the inquiry and most Canadians won't even notice since it will be summer and cottage country is the escape. Then next year, Paul will call an election and win, of course villifying the Tory's as Satan and Ontario will yet again, quiver in their boots, unwilling to change and will continue to invite Liberal ass raping because Paul says so,... just like the last election.

It's times like these that I long for a two party system with 2 consecutive mandates as prime minister then baa bye. And certainly the other party not representing itself as seperatists. Only in Canada I say.
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